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Love is the answer?
    #7044780 -

You hear it a lot on these forums, i was watching some cartoons and this thought reoccurred to me several times so i figured I'd address it to myself. So i started toying with the subject and all its implications and here are my results.

Anyhow, I came to an intermediate conclusion through a little bit of playing around that hatred is the answer so much as love is the answer.

Now, i know it sounds bad but...  :shrug: I think that focused hatred can be just as effective as love if not on par with it in respects to what it can do to you and how it affects a situation through belief either in or surrounded by it.

Anyway my ultimate conclusion on the subject on the matter is that its not the hate or the love thats the answer. It's the passion involved, what leads you to act, what distinguishes, separates and defines an approach. Not much of a revelation or anything, but more of a message to everyone. Whatever it is your involved in stay passionate and that will lead you through it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7044809 -

when you say the answer... do you mean the answer to life?

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: biggysmall]
    #7044811 -

Thats how it usually is applied on these forums.

Edited by Psychoactive1984 (06/14/07 03:53 AM)

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7044818 -

sorry im alittle slow this morning i have a bad headache.........
and it sais that you edited your post... probably meaning you lost your cool for a second;)

but besides that... you raise some interesting points......
but you can show love to something even though you have no passion.....
does this mean if you dont have passion for something you can not express love?

tell me if this does not make sence lol

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: biggysmall]
    #7044841 -

No I edited due to not making one iotta of sense, its 3 am here and I've gotten no sleep and only running on one cigarette.

Making plenty of sense to me. Anyhow, you can love without passion, yes thats possible, but what makes it so dynamic is the passion, thats what creates the involvement attracts the attention, sets the atmosphere so to speak. Think in respects to saying i love you to your loved ones in a repetitive montone... it gets old quick no emphasis no indication of mood, nothing really inclusive of sentiment. Their are many ways, no one way is correct, but some are clearly better then others.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: biggysmall]
    #7044842 -

Now say i hate you in a montone way, same thing its the passion that stirs up and shows you hate something not the words themselves.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7044898 -

saying that love without passion is not interesting is untrue........... girls who get with rich guys because hey want his cash........ or forced marriages were the girl pretends to love the guy but then runs off with her true love.... all the stories like these are much more interesting then just a couple living happy until they die

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: biggysmall]
    #7044903 -

Just because you have passion doesn't mean everything is going to be peachy in the end. What made you come to that conclusion?

I'm not saying its not interesting only that its a hell of a lot better with it. I find it to routine without passion, without some investiment some degree of affect by me unto me through me.

Hmmmm love without passion, love without passioon. How much passion or a lack thereof are we talking about here?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7044932 -

well if a couple has so much passion for eachother it usually results in a normal life some kids dad goes to work mom looks after kids..... and just every day the same.... but when there is love without passion there is cheating, lying, violence, distress, greed, ect..... not that these are good things... they are just much more interesting

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7044933 -

Give me an example where hatred can be constructive (in all the aspects and especially from a psychological point of view), other than maybe finding a quick fix (as in something superficial which treats the effect but not the cause) for something that's been bothering you.

As opposed to love, which always begins with loving yourself and which seems to be "the answer". Because when you love yourself you know yourself and accept yourself. And when you do all that you understand the world and all it's subtle mechanisms which in extent will make you see the best solution to anything, something that has constructive effects (both long and short term) for all the parties involved.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7044959 -

Instead of using the word love in a statement say you hate the opposite of what your saying you love that you hate. Same goal, different strategy. Its simply transference in both scenarios the same feeling is ultimately fostered. Saying i love blah blah blah is as much statement of what you hate as saying i hate blah blah, as to what you love. Its indicative, at least for me, try a touch of it, this isn't readily applied to superficial concepts though i.e. i hate broccoli, but tends to readily apply to things with a bit of depth.

MLK fought for his people he spoke for them and he loved the idea of equality.
MLK fought for his people he hated the lack of equality that persisted at those times.

Was it his love or hatred that drove him to do what he achieved? What inspired the ambition. The answer imo is simply: yes. It was both regardless of which he identified with but both working in conjunction that made his efforts successful, and both those worked within his ambition/drive in way of the conviction of his passions. Coffee time.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Love is the answer? [Re: biggysmall]
    #7044962 -

If we're watching a movie i suppose but not if your on the inside looking out.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7045056 -

Hate comes from fear
Love comes from the lack of fear

That being said, I consciously choose NOT to hate because it means that I will feel fear. Now feeling fear comes for the absence of understanding. And again, I choose to understand.
You see, negative passion make us unable to make constructive decisions or make us behave like fundamentalists. We lack of balance when we hate and we transmit our hate (mainly through our actions) to those around us. And when that happens, the lack of balance grows and leaves room for bad decisions and confusion.

As for your example, it sounds something like:
MLK fought for his people he hated the lack of equality that persisted at those times. - MLK was unable to understand the factors which determined the lack lack of equality and he started to hate it. Being blinded by hate we was incompetent in transcending the effect and getting to the cause.
Because if he would have been able to understand what were the things that determined the lack of equality, your example could sound like that:
MLK fought for his people and managed to diminish or even eliminate the lack on equality because he was driven by love (understanding). :laugh:
Love has a multitude of aspects from passion to serenity. Why not acknowledge all it's perspectives and use them when the case requires?
And hate is such a drastic term which has so many negative connotations, why not say, for example, instead "I hate ignorance", "I do not see ignorance as an option because it generates so many conflicts". And by being able to see which conflicts it generates, it means you understand what exactly causes it and how it can be treated. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7045058 -

If so, what is the question?

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7045075 -

It can be construed that your just afraid to hate and thus you love. Its a tricky situation. It all matters on your outlook, their are no steadfast rules, I'm making this one up as i go.

It does have so many negative connotation, i fully agree with you their, but so does a politician, either way regardless of the perception his duties remain the same, so to is it in the definition of the word. Attachments made by individuals don't necessarily allude to something deeper then opinion.

As far as the ignorance dilemma, what desires result in that manifestation, what are the causes that lead up to that statement? While it seems so arbitrary take a deeper look, it surely has an affinity that i think your missing.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Gomp]
    #7045083 -

It's in the post. First paragraph, as to what it answers, only because it is so frequently questioned. I also clarified what it was in respects to through an additional post.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7045126 -

Quote:
It can be construed that your just afraid to hate and thus you love. Its a tricky situation. It all matters on your outlook, their are no steadfast rules, I'm making this one up as i go.



Now fearing fear and analyzing it's implications, not to mention the twist of words is a place where I don't want to go :what:. I see it pointless since this way everything can be interpreted (misinterpreted rather) and have no real value other than contradiction.
But to shed some light on this view, I'll try to make it more clear.
By feeling fear I acknowledged the fact that it doesn't serve me and I became aware of it's toxicity. Then I started to think about real facts, real examples in which I was driven by fear and was able to understand why I failed.
Therefore, I freely choose not to feel fear (hate) anymore because it only puts a stop to my best interests.

Quote:
As far as the ignorance dilemma, what desires result in that manifestation, what are the causes that lead up to that statement?



Ignorance is caused by the lack of education, love, understanding, meeting the wrong people in the wrong circumstances, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, the absence of certain degree of awareness which could help one save himself from ignorance, and so on.
Knowing all that, how can I hate/fear ignorant people? If you understand the process, it's basic logic that will make you realize that fear is out of the picture, since all we really fear in the unknown.
I can say that I dislike it, I can can say that I disagree with it, but this so much different than hating. And yes, the connotations matter, as well as all the shades and nuances, because they directly determine our actions even if we choose to admit it or not. That is why I am here to sustain that we should be able to make the exact distinctions.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7045207 -

True we are somewhat getting into semantics, but either way fear is a factor in both decisions is all i'm saying. It can't be readily escaped and it makes no sense to espouse infinent love any more then it does to express infinite hatred, their are degrees however those once again (tricky situation) get into subjectivity which kind of takes this out of the scope of an actual analysis.

What i was getting at through the ignorance dilemma is conflict. That is what is being approached in that dilemma, either a fear of or for it that leads you to such a conclusion being in scope of love/hate relationship in respects to passion (degree). Anyway i see where your comming from but ignorance has much to do with a lack of love as a lack of hate for the predisposition. Your getting involved in this one, ignorance while it may have to do with that doesn't necessarily involve it, its akin to saying that a lack of love makes one ignorant or a lack of hate makes one ignorant, is either of these paradigms inclusive of the basis of ignorance? A lack of understanding and a lack of education make sense, as ignorance is defined by such, i do see your need to want to involve love into it and fix an emotion to it, but i don't see the use/a realistic example of it; even though educating and understanding can be fostered by a deep sense of love and /or hate for that matter depending on the emphasis.

We should be able to make exact definitions i agree, but language and our use and the ability to manipulate both forms in the same manner suggest that their merely a difference in expression not nature. I'm dismissing connotations for this example, so we're talking about this in completely different respects hence the difference in our conclusions. What truly is the difference between love and hate aside from our connotations? What are you really saying when you love something versus you hate something? To come to my conclusions requires detachment. To come to yours requires attachement. We're honestly comming from differnt spectrums. (either way i'm having fun) Anyhow to me this is more or less reaffinrming the spirit of the post two different emphasis that are really just the same in nature just opposite in expression. What matters to me as per this example is conviction. :grin: Are detachment and attachment more similar or disimilar, or are they merely the different sides of the same coin?:strokebeard:

I hope that i didn't overcomplicate this, lack of sleep may be affecting me :tongue:.

Edit:
Are you implying that to love is to know (dissolution of fear?)? I kinda get this through your example and your implication of love to fear.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Edited by Psychoactive1984 (06/14/07 08:31 AM)

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7045283 -

Quote:
True we are somewhat getting into semantics, but either way fear is a factor in both decisions is all i'm saying. It can't be readily escaped and it makes no sense to espouse infinent love any more then it does to express infinite hatred, their are degrees however those once again (tricky situation) get into subjectivity which kind of takes this out of the scope of an actual analysis.

We should be able to make exact definitions i agree, but language and our use and the ability to manipulate both forms in the same manner suggest that their merely a difference in expression not nature. I'm dismissing connotations for this example, so we're talking about this in completely different respects hence the difference in our conclusions. What truly is the difference between love and hate aside from our connotations? What are you really saying when you love something versus you hate something? To come to my conclusions requires detachment. To come to yours requires attachement. We're honestly comming from differnt spectrums. (either way i'm having fun) Anyhow to me this is more or less reaffinrming the spirit of the post two different emphasis that are really just the same in nature just opposite in expression. What matters to me as per this example is conviction. :grin: Are detachment and attachment more similar or disimilar, or are they merely the different sides of the same coin?:strokebeard:



I'm taking these two together since they relate and get to the next one when I'm done answering these :lol:

Love is not attachment, it's our wrong impression about love that makes us think it is about attachment. It's like saying that being possessive is a prove of love.
It is not, it's our response to social programming (i.e. bad movies, soap operas, music, hearing this and that in a word) that makes us think that love is about attachments and the good ol' "making scenes" (for example).
Love is about making a real connection with somebody (which can be your lover, friend, brother, neighbor o anybody else). We make a connection when we understand each other. Why does attachment have to play a role in that? Attachment is th result of low self confidence and confusion. So I'd say that attachment is getting closer to fear rather than love.
When we can make a real connection we don't feel fear or doubt and when these things are eliminated, attachment is out of the picture.
So yes, I don't think one has to feel passion for someone who's showing signs of ignorance, that would be unfit for the circumstance, but what one could feel compassion. Compassion is yet another aspect, manifestation of love.

That's why I specifically said:
Love has a multitude of aspects from passion to serenity. Why not acknowledge all it's perspectives and use them when the case requires?
Love has a wide variety of forms and aspects and this exactly the case to be able to know which form of love you can apply in a specific situation. :sherlock:

Quote:
What i was getting at through the ignorance dilemma is conflict. That is what is being approached in that dilemma, either a fear of or for it that leads you to such a conclusion being in scope of love/hate relationship in respects to passion (degree). Anyway i see where your comming from but ignorance has much to do with a lack of love as a lack of hate for the predisposition. Your getting involved in this one, ignorance while it may have to do with that doesn't necessarily involve it, its akin to saying that a lack of love makes one ignorant or a lack of hate makes one ignorant, is either of these paradigms inclusive of the basis of ignorance? A lack of understanding and a lack of education make sense, as ignorance is defined by such, i do see your need to want to involve love into it and fix an emotion to it, but i don't see the use, a realistic example of it; even though educating and understanding can be fostered by a deep sense of love and hate for that matter depending on the emphasis.



Ignorance is mainly caused by lack of education or understanding. But again, these are obvious influences that don't require any analysis so one can be aware of them.
But also lack of love can play a huge role in one of the many other determinant factors for ignorance.
Let's say a child was abused by his father all his life, dis considered and humiliated. He develops some self-defense / self-preservation patterns such as not paying attention to the critiques he gets, not caring about the results of his actions, not believing in friendship or love and so so much more. All of these turn him into an ignorant person. And all that because of the absence of love.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Love is the answer? [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7045680 -

It's the passion involved,

Love has nothing to do with passion. Love is unemotional, but rather IMO an empathic/energetic merging with an object or person.

You're talking about addictive infatuation again. Just like almost everyone else here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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