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OfflinePedM
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The Passion of Christ
    #2381335 - 02/26/04 11:46 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Since the other thread about this film was off to a rather cynical start, I figured we could start another. Moments ago, I arrived home from the movie theatre after taking in this excruciating and heavy film. I wish to discuss the film itself, and not the controversy surrounding the film's release.

First, if anyone has any sincere interest in spiritual living, definitely take in this film. It is a complete and concise synopsis of the example to follow as a spiritual human being. The example of Christ is one of unsurpassed devotion, unsurpassed compassion, indiscriminate love, even for those who tortured him so. The story of Christ, be it historical record or elaborate fable, absolutely examplifies spiritual life.

Often we think that spiritual living is about exploring so-called "higher conciousness", uncovering metaphyical plains, and grasping at experiences other than this world. We think that spiritual life involves entering an experience which is "better" than the one in which we presently abide. If this isn't our view, our tendency is to view spiritual life as little more than elaborately constructed self-delusion and willful ignorance. Neither of these views bring us any benefit.

True spiritual life -- that is to say, the spiritual life that brings us benefit -- is epitomized by the life which Christ has given us as his example. To shoulder such insurmountable suffering without breathing a word of contempt for his enemies, this is what it means to follow a spiritual path. To have the enlightened ability to remain within minds only of forgiveness and compassion while we are so severely wronged by others in their ignorance, this is what it means to follow the spiritual path.

We can see how these traits of Jesus are traits that come alongside the wisdom of his teachings, and that it's this uninterruptable, stainless compassion which shares threads with perfect wisdom. We can see how each religious system holds equanimity and love at it's core, and how each promises paradise, freedom from suffering that comes only with a sincere recognition. Before we can enter a spiritual life, we must first know what spiritual living is. The example of Christ shows us an ideal that all of us can strive toward as Christians, non-Christians, or practitioners of other faiths.

It has truly been a life-impacting film. My respect for sincere Christians, a few of which we are fortunate to have among us here, has deepened enormously.


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Invisiblemabus
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2381408 - 02/27/04 12:05 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

My respect for sincere Christians, a few of which we are fortunate to have among us here, has deepened enormously




Ped, how do you feel about jews after seeing the film? How were they portrayed, and what are your feelings toward them now?


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: mabus]
    #2381480 - 02/27/04 12:29 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't wish to discuss the controvesy surrounding the film, but my personal view is that the Jews were no more misguided than all other human beings, even Jesus' most closest disciples. Jesus' eyes viewed them all as equally potentialled, equally precious. His words in the film, "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do" confirm this. It indicates that he held no hatred toward the Jews, and that there should be no hatred from Christians to Jews, or from Jews to Chrisitians. The Pharisees, in my view, represent a wayward sect of a then-degenerate school of Judaism. They had little else but self interest, and thus are not represantitives of any spiritual group or path. Each of them are now deceased and cannot be considered a representation of the present day Jewish people.

For this reason, any reaction against the film accusing it's producers of anti-semitism can only be an example of spiritual insecurity.


--------------------


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OfflineAstrok
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2381500 - 02/27/04 12:33 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Mabus, I dont wanna start an argument in this thread, but i think that you need to look at the bright part of this movie. Sounds like your with the other million people who just want to stir up a controversy. It isnt portraying Jews as being "bad" its just showing what happend back then. Plus, the sad ending isnt the "jews" killing Jesus Christ its the romans who completed the task. So all I'm asking is that you open your mind and not be immured to al the contreversy surrounding the film.


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Invisiblemabus
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2381552 - 02/27/04 12:54 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thanks Ped and Astrok.


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Offlinelostsuitcase
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Astrok]
    #2381882 - 02/27/04 03:42 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"It isnt portraying Jews as being "bad" its just showing what happend back then."

what "happened"? ummmm.......okay.


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Offlinepattern
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2381946 - 02/27/04 04:16 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Cant wait to see this movie!! I'll be going next week.  I'd see it sooner but I promised a girl I'd go with her. :sun:


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InvisibleJenny
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2381954 - 02/27/04 04:22 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I can't wait to see this film.
Christ was a truly wise and awesome!
I have always had respect to any person who has found a religion that they are happy with and that makes them feel good, who is also respectful of my beliefs.


--------------------

Mindfulness is the aware, balanced acceptance of the present experience.
It isn't more complicated than that.
It is opening to or recieving the present moment, pleasant or unpleasant, just as it is,
without either clinging to it or rejecting it.


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Offlinevalour
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Jenny]
    #2382170 - 02/27/04 08:41 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Agreed.

Thanks for an interesting perspective, Ped!


--------------------
"Remember, son,
I didn't sell out-
I bought in."


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OfflineEarth_Droid
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2382615 - 02/27/04 11:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

The second comming of Christ is here.  He's back in ciniplex large screen format!  :lol:


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InvisiblethePatient
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Earth_Droid]
    #2385392 - 02/28/04 12:51 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

:::2nd coming ::: inside:::


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T h e r e  a r e  n o  o r d i n a r y  m o m e n t s.


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OfflineQuincunx
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2386476 - 02/28/04 01:36 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Thanx Ped for this thread and for your words. 5 Shrooms. :thumbup:

Quote:

True spiritual life -- that is to say, the spiritual life that brings us benefit -- is epitomized by the life which Christ has given us as his example.



Yes. Exactly. Before anyone would like to step on The Path, he or she must have in mind that there is no Enlightment without 100% sacrifice of his/her ego for those which did not yet became familiar with the love and compassion of The One Consciousness (aka God). Evil is not conquered with evil (it just makes it stronger) but only with love and compassion. Sacrificing yourself for those who hate and flame you is not an easy task but it's the ultimate and final step on The Path.

As for the controversy surrounding the film's release:
It is pointless to argue which present day religion or nation was responsibile for killing and torture of *THE* Master. We, the mankind, the human race did this to Him - nailed Him on the cross. Why? Because for what He did: He preached that we should love and understand eachother rather than hate and hurt eachother. And the mankind is still, after all those years doing the same - killing, torturing and poluting the planet. And of course... we still argue about who was responsibile for what we all did and still doing it - killing The Faith. Not just the Christian Faith but the faith in Love and Compassion on universal scale.


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Invisible2Experimental
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2387161 - 02/28/04 07:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I dont understand why people get so steamed up over WHO KILLED JESUS... if they realize that he needed to die to acomplish his "goal" why does it matter who killed him? They are actually the ones who helped him along his journey!!

Anyways, I saw the movie and I think mel put some pretty dumb stuff in there... like the overly fake splitting of the temple veil, which IMO was just in the texts symbolicly to show there was no curtain between god and the people, and that others then just the HIGH PRIEST could go to the company of god. Also, he made alot of assumptions and follwed the cookie cutter NIV versian story of Jesus... why dident he look into actuall history, find the most acurate texts, and base the movie off of them? TO make a fortune? you got it.

Thats beside the point though. I think the point here is that I have none.


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OfflineTheShroomHermit
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2387853 - 02/29/04 01:26 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

>why dident he look into actuall history, find the most acurate texts, and base the movie off of them?
-If he followed accurate texts, many of the "miracles" in the movie would have been omitted. In other words, it wouldn't be a very long movie.


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Offlinecrippledavenger
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2388331 - 02/29/04 07:53 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm really impressed by the way you expressed yourself Ped. I agree with you totally. I believe one of the messages behind the death of Jesus, is how worldly concerns,petty squabbles, and rivalries can blind us and cause us to hurt the good the innocent and the righteous. It is like to kids squabbling over who is going to look after a puppy, and after days of fighting they find that the puppy has died of starvation. When I think of Jesus I feel a bittersweet feeling, ashamed he was killed in this way, just for preaching a message of love and salvation. He knew he would have to suffer this way in order so people would be shamed in a good way, and see the world with new eyes.

Personally I was brought up by atheists, and my spiritual development started with self-help books, and then to new age stuff, then Buddhism and finally Christianity. I'm reluctant to call myself a Christian, because it always sounds like I belong to an exclusive club to which you, you and you are not invited because you have the wrong lifestyle the wrong background, the wrong beliefs. Instead I would say that I use the Christian message as my inspiration and comfort. Most of the time though I feel totally cut off from God, and am just wandering around in the dark, but I consider this quite normal and to be expected because I am quite lazy and don't put much effort in.

I urge anyone who uses mushrooms, to get a hymn book, ancient or modern or both and read one or two while you are tripping. Even if you are the most hardened cynic and atheists you cannot help but be moved by the sincerity and spiritual development of these hymn writers.


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Offlinecastaway
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2388335 - 02/29/04 08:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Why did Jesus have to die...This question puzzles me constantly, and from repeated reading of the texts I have come to the conclusion that he was just too 'over the top'...I mean if anyone would shake you out of a weary sleep and ask why you were not praying to avoid temptation, you'd think he was over the top too...He probably wanted to die to make us feel guilty which He certainly accomolished with many people...Still, it's easier to deal with Him when He's not around :wink:

just my 2 irreverent cents


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: castaway]
    #2388420 - 02/29/04 09:47 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

hy did Jesus have to die...

He was a man and all men die.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineAstrok
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Swami]
    #2388634 - 02/29/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If you knew much about religioun, then you would know that Jesus died to make it so our sins are possbile to forgive. You knew that it was Gods will for him to die, so that is why he died.


--------------------
"Light that shit"
"Smoke that shit"
"Pass that shit"


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OfflinePedM
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: castaway]
    #2388744 - 02/29/04 01:29 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

>> Why did Jesus have to die...This question puzzles me constantly

Christ's death, in my opinion, served as an absolution of the equality of ordinary human beings. Had Jesus lived and died as a carpenter, gathering disciples and giving teachings, any man after his death would have the ability to exercise an arrogance claiming par with Jesus. The example of his life would be rather bland and flat. The crucifixion was the ultimate testament to the inpreturbable integrity of Jesus Christ. It clarified beyond doubt the devotion of Jesus Christ to the welfare and benefit of all. A standard was set which all have equal potential to meet. There are none greater, none lesser. All are equal under the example of Christ. With such level ground, we can follow his path without stumbling, without shame, and only with the utmost sincerity.

Jesus Christ, like others such as the Buddha, Krishna, and so forth, had a collossal experience of divine absorption very early in life. Such an experience can consume anyone at any time, and can be said to be much like falling in love. When it arrives with it's impact, there is no mistaking it. Sometimes it can arrive after extensive practice of meditation and spiritual discipline. Other times it arrives unannounced, and for no discernable reason at all. Upon consuming an individual, there comes an overwheling sense of warmth for our surroundings, and a love for the people who inhabit them. There is the perception of unity and interconnectedness, of the purity of each individual we encounter.

Jesus Christ had such an experience. In his time and place, the cultural context under which he had been raised afforded him the terminology "God the Father". Therfore, upon absorption in such divine experience, he said "I am the Son of God". If this terminology were not part of his background, he may have said of the Chinese, "it is the flowing of the Tao", or of the Hindu, "it is the revelation of Brahman." He was locked in the context of the surrounding religious institution. As a divine man trapped within the confines of flesh and bone, this was his limitation.

Without any other means to articulate his experience, his statement "I am the Son of God" was met with much aggitation. It was considered blasphemy by the established Jewish hierarchy, which held as one of it's core beliefs that no man was of the nature of God. As consequence of his supposed blasphemy, he was put to death on the cross. In the following decades, the Christian branch then grew out of the Jewish establishment, which at that time had political affiliation the looming and intimidating influence of the Roman empire. Keeping in line with their Jewish background, they adopted as one of their fundamental beliefs the notion that Jesus Christ was the only Son of God, and that there could be no other. Jesus Christ was therefore placed atop an unreachable pedestal, and Christianity was born.

Christ's placement aloof at the right hand of God has strangled the meaning of his life and example. As part of the traditional Christian theology, we are asked to accept no other individual but Christ has or will ever grace this earth truly akin to God. The rest of us are left absolutely estranged. Then, with this inflexible doctrine at the root of Christianity's spiritual foundation, we are commanded to take up our cross and follow Christ without any such unique advantage as being the actual son of God. We, who are told that we are innately imperfect and detached from God, are asked to follow the life and example of Jesus Christ, a man whose heart was perfectly kindred with the divine. With this approach, it is impossible to follow the example of Christ.

The result is that Christians are forced to admit such things as "I am a miserable sinner." "I've fallen far short of the grace of God." With this, Christianity institutionalized guilt as a virtue. In the subsequent centuries after Christ's departure, the now politically affiliated Christian institution delivered us an impossible gospel with shame at it's core, instead of hope and confidence. We are perpetually bound apart from unity with God. Therefore, we are trapped on the opposite side of a vast abyss between ourselves and the divine. We are unable to help ourselves. All we are able to do is confess our sins with the nagging knowledge that we are helpless but to commit them again. Our guilt only deepens with time, and we are bound with increasing tightness in all our harmful actions. This is not the gospel of Christ. The word "gospel" means "good news". Does this sound like good news?

This is not what Christ intended to become of his teachings, and of the example of his life. Nonetheless, it's this which is typically imparted over the pulpit. If we check carefully, however, we will find that Jesus Christ felt no absolution to his experience of the divine. He saw no cause to consider it an experience unique to himself alone. In fact, implicit in much of his teachings is that we are all inextricably linked to the divine.

"This I am, this me, is the divine in us." -- Jesus Christ
"The seed of Buddhahood is of the essential nature of mind." -- Buddha Shakyamuni


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
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OfflineGorian
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Re: The Passion of Christ [Re: Ped]
    #2389096 - 02/29/04 04:15 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

How the hell does some "magic man" dieing wash away your sins?


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