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Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective
    #6678111 -

Imagine that when you die, you are sent into an eternity of hellfire, unless you are an atheist. If you believe in any gods, you go to hell. If you are an atheist, you just die; your consciousness no longer exists. Wouldn't you rather believe that there's not a God, just in case?

Is this any more ridiculous than Pascal's original wager? If so, why?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager#Explanation

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678167 -

I guess the only difference is that in an atheistic universe, hellfire would not only be counterintuitive but utterly preposterous and inconceivable; if on the other hand you're presuming there's a separate God who put us here for the express purpose of following his rules, hellfire is a relatively smaller leap of faith. Either way, I think you just started this thread to test my faith.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678201 -

Yes, this seems more ridiculous. Pascal's wager inherently has within it the fact that if God did exist there would be some power that enacts his final judgment, the result of their choice to believe or not. While this contains the idea that if there is no God, thus there is no greater power, yet there is still some sort of judgment being carried out based on your actions. It seems to me that this idea proposes that we exist in a purely physical sense, yet it falls back on the idea that the words that come out of our mouths have some significance that alters the physical realm, or one's destiny through it. This is an interesting idea, yet I don't think it supports itself in that it bases itself on the consequences of ones actions, but simultaneously rejects the idea that there is a being that can observe our choices and enact our fates based on those choices. There's my stab at it :shrug:

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678229 -

Wee said:
It seems to me that this idea proposes that we exist in a purely physical sense, yet it falls back on the idea that the words that come out of our mouths have some significance that alters the physical realm, or one's destiny through it.


I have faith that even though this doesn't hold up to logic, it's still true. And you can't disprove it. I win.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678285 -

it stars saddam said:
I have faith that even though this doesn't hold up to logic, it's still true.  And you can't disprove it.  I win.


True, I cannot change your unchanging faith, but maybe I can point out how silly it is. Don't most athiests chose their path because it is factually based and can be proven to them? While Pascal's stance and religion in general leaves room to fall back on faith when in an argument. :wink:

I don't really like the idea of Pascal's wager in general. I don't think that God would be flattered by those who believe in him simply because they "might as well," it also is a weak show of character with oneself. It is pretty sad to think that someone is not bold enough to come to a conclusion within themselves about this issue. This idea that someone would sit on the line of faith in an almost neutral stance, not in disbelief of a God, but not in belief of God either. Also, I believe that one's relationship with God must exceed the acknowledgment of his existence to be sincere. :smile:

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678302 -

Why should one rush to such a conclusion?

I personally think that any view of God as an entity desirous of flattery is unrefined at best.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678345 -

Wee said:
it stars saddam said:
I have faith that even though this doesn't hold up to logic, it's still true.  And you can't disprove it.  I win.


True, I cannot change your unchanging faith, but maybe I can point out how silly it is. Don't most athiests chose their path because it is factually based and can be proven to them? While Pascal's stance and religion in general leaves room to fall back on faith when in an argument. :wink:


Ha, I was just mocking the psychology of many religious people.  This isn't even my argument.  I read it somewhere else.

Quote:
I don't really like the idea of Pascal's wager in general. I don't think that God would be flattered by those who believe in him simply because they "might as well," it also is a weak show of character with oneself. It is pretty sad to think that someone is not bold enough to come to a conclusion within themselves about this issue.


Indeed.  It just seems so desperate.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Lion]
    #6678392 -

Hrm... while I hope my opinions don't seem too rushed, I think that having beliefs that you believe to be based on an ultimate truth allows oneself to construct a viewpoint that can be hastily applied to a variety of issues and questions, something that is pretty essential considering what we are faced with. But it is key that this viewpoint is initially started with one's belief in a single truth, then expanded through it.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678414 -

Speaking of atheism, look at how handsome Richard Dawkins is:



A fitting contrast to hideous Christian evangelists:




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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678424 -

Hehe, I completely understand. It is rather pathetic to see people constantly fall back onto an argument which has just become this over generalized, impersonal crap.

On another note, the blinds are stretching and skewing like the tides, and the wall has taken a slight orange hue. :lol: :mushroom2:

Edited by Wee (03/16/07 09:35 PM)

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678431 -

Sweet, are you on LSD?

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678436 -

Naw, just good ole shrums. :wink:

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678445 -

Not bad. I actually wanted to take shrooms tonight but couldn't find any. I opted for beer and benzos instead. Enjoy your trip.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678468 -

Yea, to be a respected atheist you must have solid views and be able to gain respect and rise through the system. Atheism seems to just "work" better in that sense(expressing yourself to other logical people), while evangelists just come across looking like goons, which they are :lol:. Probably because a good portion of them have just found that its an easily manipulated system in which they can use it to line their pockets. But its really about a more personal experience with one another and taking in what respectable people have to say along the way.

Edit:
Quote:
Enjoy your trip.


Thanks, will do :smile:

Edited by Wee (03/16/07 09:51 PM)

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678475 -

Dawkins just has so much charisma. Atheists couldn't have asked for a better poster child.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678486 -

While I haven't read or heard anything from him, the knowledge that he rose through a system built upon logic and truth, or so I would hope, makes him much more respectable for whenever I will encounter him in the future.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: it stars saddam]
    #6678531 -

it stars saddam said:
Speaking of atheism, look at how handsome Richard Dawkins is:



A fitting contrast to hideous Christian evangelists:






Pffft...I'm way sexier than any of those guys.



Mystics FTW!

Oh, and Dawkins doesn't have charisma. He just gets applauded for being rude and obnoxious to religious people.


--------------------

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Silversoul]
    #6678550 -

Dude, motherfucker reeks charisma. You're in denial.

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Silversoul]
    #6678559 -

:foreheadslap:

By the way, I normally take mushrooms to carry out these types of conversation in my head, its nice to be able to converse with others while under the influence :mushroom2:

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Re: Pascal's Wager from an Atheistic Perspective [Re: Wee]
    #6678561 -

Psychedelics are the greatest class of drugs ever imo.

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