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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Azen]
    #7792148 - 12/23/07 11:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Azen said:
The only respectable opinion is agnosticism.  If you aren't agnostic, then you are in a fairy tale land.  No one knows and to say you know that there is a God or you know there isn't a God isn't logical in the slightest.




I'm with you on this one.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Icelander]
    #7792209 - 12/23/07 11:38 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
but all viewpoints should be addressed respectfully rather than condescendingly,

Like the Nazi parties ideas of the extermination of the Jews?



Would calling a Nazi names do any good for the public debate?


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792590 - 12/23/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

as much good as respecting them


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Atheist]
    #7792687 - 12/23/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
god is made by humans, thats why prayer doesnt work and miracles arent real




prayer always works as it is defined today by most religions


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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Silversoul]
    #7792882 - 12/23/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
but all viewpoints should be addressed respectfully rather than condescendingly,

Like the Nazi parties ideas of the extermination of the Jews?



Would calling a Nazi names do any good for the public debate?




What does this have to do with disrespecting their ideas? Yes, they may be so identified with their beliefs that they take it personally, but this is not the same as "calling them names."

Disrespect for an individual is not allowed in this forum, and I think that this allows for a "cleaner" debate. If someone really wants to flame, they can take it to OTD. Disrespect for espoused beliefs, asserted claims, proposed ideas, etc...is the essence of philosophical debate. Each idea must survive or die upon its' own merits, not because we MUST express respect or else.

I will freely admit that I do not have respect for the idea that there is a God who cares whether we perform certain behaviors, who created us (and everything else) from nothing, who will effect punishments upon those who digress from his stone tablet of rules. This idea is absurd to me, as it is evidenced nowhere in perceptible reality.

Should I feign respect for ideas which have no basis in reality? Should we all be forced to show respect for beliefs in which we see no merit? This concept is anti-progress, anti-exploration and anti-knowledge. Why not test and try and, yes, DISRESPECT, the status quo according to others? What have we accomplished thus far by "respecting" what others claimed to be real and true, philosophically?


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7793444 - 12/23/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

so a church burned down across my street


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Cracka_X]
    #7793449 - 12/23/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

One less to go :laugh:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibledaytripper23
?
Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7794532 - 12/24/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

lol...


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7794557 - 12/24/07 01:15 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

omg(g stands for gosh)... you're SOO DEMENTED!!! MAUAHAHAHA HA

It was kinda sad, I'll take a picture and post it tomorrow. They had the roads blocked off this morning but I had a chance to see it on the way home tonight. It's a huge church and basically the roof and stained glass all burned down.

It's quite a sight. I could just imagine what everyone was thinking when they were trying to goto church this morning. Damn satan.


But I saw Walk Hard tonight, had some good chuckles.


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Veritas]
    #7800496 - 12/26/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
but all viewpoints should be addressed respectfully rather than condescendingly,

Like the Nazi parties ideas of the extermination of the Jews?



Would calling a Nazi names do any good for the public debate?




What does this have to do with disrespecting their ideas?  Yes, they may be so identified with their beliefs that they take it personally, but this is not the same as "calling them names." 

Disrespect for an individual is not allowed in this forum, and I think that this allows for a "cleaner" debate.  If someone really wants to flame, they can take it to OTD.  Disrespect for espoused beliefs, asserted claims, proposed ideas, etc...is the essence of philosophical debate.  Each idea must survive or die upon its' own merits, not because we MUST express respect or else.

I will freely admit that I do not have respect for the idea that there is a God who cares whether we perform certain behaviors, who created us (and everything else) from nothing, who will effect punishments upon those who digress from his stone tablet of rules.  This idea is absurd to me, as it is evidenced nowhere in perceptible reality.

Should I feign respect for ideas which have no basis in reality?  Should we all be forced to show respect for beliefs in which we see no merit?  This concept is anti-progress, anti-exploration and anti-knowledge.  Why not test and try and, yes, DISRESPECT, the status quo according to others?  What have we accomplished thus far by "respecting" what others claimed to be real and true, philosophically?




I agree Veritas.:thumbup::thumbup::mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
Male User Gallery

Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Icelander]
    #7800611 - 12/26/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Perhaps we just have different ideas of respect. For me, it's just a matter of being humble enough to recognize that the other person's ideas, no matter how strange they may seem, may carry some truth, and that your own ideas, no matter how confident you feel about them, may not be correct.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Silversoul]
    #7800619 - 12/26/07 11:10 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

I don't disagree with that but it does have limits for me. I won't respect things I believe harmful, especially if it seems self-serving and purposefully harmful. Yet I do know I might be wrong about it. That's just the chance I will live with on certain issues. But in general your stance is a good one.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Silversoul]
    #7800816 - 12/26/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
So then...it appears that the problem is NOT religion, but authoritarianism and discrimination.





True..........but both are fueled by religion, in some shape form or fashion.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleCracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,808
Loc: Swamp
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: niteowl]
    #7800824 - 12/26/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
So then...it appears that the problem is NOT religion, but authoritarianism and discrimination.





True..........but both are fueled by religion, in some shape form or fashion.




yes yes yes yes


--------------------
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao        ~Daodejing


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Azen]
    #7800837 - 12/26/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Azen said:
The only respectable opinion is agnosticism.  If you aren't agnostic, then you are in a fairy tale land.  No one knows and to say you know that there is a God or you know there isn't a God isn't logical in the slightest.




:congrats::congrats::congrats:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: niteowl]
    #7800845 - 12/26/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

There were MANY valid points in that video that I had taken for granted.

Religion is probably the scariest thing I can think of right now................'cept for being outa weed :crankey:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleWolfgang
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Azen]
    #7805475 - 12/27/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Azen said:
The only respectable opinion is agnosticism. If you aren't agnostic, then you are in a fairy tale land. No one knows and to say you know that there is a God or you know there isn't a God isn't logical in the slightest.




I agree... for the most part, I'm somewhere between agnostic and atheist myself. But we shouldn't disrespect people that just believe illogical shit, that won't help anything. Maybe their opinion isn't worth respecting but they are, most theists/atheists are still good people we shouldn't cuss anyone out for what they believe.


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InvisibleWolfgang
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Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Atheist]
    #7805587 - 12/27/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
god is made by humans, thats why prayer doesnt work and miracles arent real




Prayer has an effect on some things but that doesn't mean gods doing it, maybe prayer it's just positive thinking/energy.


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InvisibleAtheist
Stranger
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Registered: 01/24/06
Posts: 13,705
Loc: USA
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Wolfgang]
    #7805602 - 12/27/07 09:20 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

positive thinking, yeah i guess....energy? i doubt it

whats the difference between thinking in your head and praying? nothing, its all in your head


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InvisibleWolfgang
Male User Gallery
Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 8,370
Re: why atheists care so much about religion [Re: Atheist]
    #7805660 - 12/27/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Atheist said:
positive thinking, yeah i guess....energy? i doubt it

whats the difference between thinking in your head and praying? nothing, its all in your head




There is evidence that positive thinking has an affect outside of your head. I remember hearing about this study the participants pushed a button and a computer randomly generated either a "1" or a "0" and it was up to the participant to try to get a certain number and they saw it DID help, using only their minds they did make a difference.

I heard of another study where they again had random number generators and this time they placed them in well populated areas and roughly 2 hours before extreme events like 9/11, the pope dying, etc they saw that the numbers began to show a pattern. This didn't happen when the random number generators when placed in remote areas away from large numbers of people.



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