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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Back assward.
#5686940 - 05/29/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was thinking about all those beliefs that we reincarnate and come back as a dog or cat or worm based on how well we fucked up this life. But it occurred to me that maybe reincarnation is headed in another direction from what we might think. Being for the most part arrogant assholes, humans believe us to be the pinnacle of the evolutionary/incarnate process. But in reality only completely unevolved creatures would think this especially considering the state of human affairs. I once had this great dog. He was so aware and sensitive, almost spiritual. I thought he was getting ready for a human incarnation (I don't believe in reincarnation by the way, but hold the possibility open). But really instead maybe I am getting ready to become a dog. And so on down the line until you reach a single celled organism where enlightenment is really happening. That seems just as likely to me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Icelander]
#5686989 - 05/29/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Being for the most part arrogant assholes, humans believe us to be the pinnacle of the evolutionary/incarnate process.
a) humans are not for the most part arrogant assholes. Just the ones you know. You were too busy stepping on the good ones to notice they existed.
b) Humans are not the pinnacle of the evolutionary process. Have you ever studied the dolphin's brain? I'm not even going to go into the alien life forms, you couldn't handle that.
Quote:
And so on down the line until you reach a single celled organism where enlightenment is really happening.
progression and regression. Once I had a female friend who told me she'd rather be a tree than a human, because 'all a tree has to do is stand there and look pretty.' This made me want to barf. "Those who are willing to give up their liberty for security deserve neither."
The funny thing is, I told her, "Fine, sweetheart if you want to be a tree, I'll make you a tree." Then she realized that there would be no sex or clothes or makeup or gold jewelry in her life as a tree, and she got sad. Its funny, sometimes you give people what they ask you for, and they hate you for it.
Why a human being would want to go backwards is beyond me. I've always striven to become more than human.
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Icelander]
#5686991 - 05/29/06 03:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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that's really interesting. that makes more sense in my opinion than the traditional sense of reincarnation.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Back assward. [Re: DoctorJ]
#5687008 - 05/29/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
Being for the most part arrogant assholes, humans believe us to be the pinnacle of the evolutionary/incarnate process.
a) humans are not for the most part arrogant assholes. Just the ones you know. You were too busy stepping on the good ones to notice they existed.
b) Humans are not the pinnacle of the evolutionary process. Have you ever studied the dolphin's brain? I'm not even going to go into the alien life forms, you couldn't handle that.
Quote:
And so on down the line until you reach a single celled organism where enlightenment is really happening.
progression and regression. Once I had a female friend who told me she'd rather be a tree than a human, because 'all a tree has to do is stand there and look pretty.' This made me want to barf. "Those who are willing to give up their liberty for security deserve neither."
The funny thing is, I told her, "Fine, sweetheart if you want to be a tree, I'll make you a tree." Then she realized that there would be no sex or clothes or makeup or gold jewelry in her life as a tree, and she got sad. Its funny, sometimes you give people what they ask you for, and they hate you for it.
Why a human being would want to go backwards is beyond me. I've always striven to become more than human.
it's not necessarily a matter of choice. ice was merely trying to show how we hold ourselves as this greater power, when in all reality, we may be just as insignificant as any leaf, bear, or potatoe out there.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Icelander]
#5687027 - 05/29/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ooops...I'd better go meditate! I'm hoping to skip all the life form incarnations between human and paramecium.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Syle]
#5687032 - 05/29/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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well, yes all forms are alive. even rocks.
but personally I'd much rather be a human than a rock! And I'd much rather be a Grey with a spaceship that can travel through time than a human with a crappy car that breaks down!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Back assward. [Re: DoctorJ]
#5687050 - 05/29/06 03:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: well, yes all forms are alive. even rocks.
but personally I'd much rather be a human than a rock! And I'd much rather be a Grey with a spaceship that can travel through time than a human with a crappy car that breaks down!
do you know what it's like to be a rock? no i didn't think so. perhaps it's the ultimate state of being one with everything.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Corporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Syle]
#5687057 - 05/29/06 03:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the truely ancient ones
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Quote:
Corporal Kielbasa said: the truely ancient ones
exactly. the constant observers.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Syle]
#5687067 - 05/29/06 03:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
DoctorJ said: well, yes all forms are alive. even rocks.
but personally I'd much rather be a human than a rock! And I'd much rather be a Grey with a spaceship that can travel through time than a human with a crappy car that breaks down!
do you know what it's like to be a rock? no i didn't think so. perhaps it's the ultimate state of being one with everything.
in a way, it is. In a very boring way.
like I said, no one wants to be one forever. We like to rise and fall like children riding a merry go round.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Back assward. [Re: DoctorJ]
#5687085 - 05/29/06 03:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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We have no way of knowing about the subjective experience of other forms of life. We can barely grasp the details of the subjective experience of other humans. It is true arrogance to assume that our complexity equals spiritual superiority.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Veritas]
#5687110 - 05/29/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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its true ignorance to assume I said anything of the sort. learn to read. thank you.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Back assward. [Re: DoctorJ]
#5687132 - 05/29/06 04:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
do you know what it's like to be a rock? no i didn't think so. perhaps it's the ultimate state of being one with everything.
in a way, it is. In a very boring way.
Were you or were you not saying that you know what it is like to be a rock?
No need to be snappish. I was referring to the general arrogance of humans, not yours in particular.
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Veritas]
#5687153 - 05/29/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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well maybe you should try being a rock and see what its like. I could tell you what its like, but you won't believe what I say, so I guess thats a lesson you'll have to teach yourself.
I was merely stating a personal preference to be conscious and able to manipulate my environment in some ways. Where you drew 'superiority' from 'personal preference' is beyond me. I also personally prefer sushi to eating cowshit, but hey I'm not gonna judge anyone if they want to eat cowshit. I might laugh at them, but not judge them.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Back assward. [Re: DoctorJ]
#5687165 - 05/29/06 04:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes, yes, you are totally familiar with what it is like to be a rock. Whatever. 
I was not referring to you, but to the general arrogant stance of humans in believing that we're the pinnacle of spiritual evolution. That is what this thread is about.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Syle]
#5687167 - 05/29/06 04:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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what if to re-incarnate we mix with others and become newborn others emerging as individuals wondering what happens when they die.
while this might decentralize responsibility (karma), any detectible improvement would involve at least some individuals doing a few lasting type good things while they are alive, whether they wonder about this or not.
--------------------
_ 🧠_
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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"Hey, you got your Hitler in my Mother Teresa!"
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Back assward. [Re: Veritas]
#5687178 - 05/29/06 04:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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then we agree. humans are not the pinnacle of spiritual or biological evolution. But that doesn't mean that the right way is backwards. There are many places to go beyond humans.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Back assward. [Re: DoctorJ]
#5687183 - 05/29/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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What if the life forms we look down on are actually more spiritually evolved? In that case, it would not be a matter of going "backwards" to reincarnate as a dog or a butterfly. That is the point of discussion here.
Whether alien life forms exist, or whether they are below us or above us in the potential chain of reincarnation, is not germane, IMO.
Edited by Veritas (05/29/06 04:21 PM)
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: what if to re-incarnate we mix with others and become newborn others emerging as individuals wondering what happens when they die.
while this might decentralize responsibility (karma), any detectible improvement would involve at least some individuals doing a few lasting type good things while they are alive, whether they wonder about this or not.
this does happens sometimes. some souls are divided (like for instance Hitler's soul- many people have a little Hitler in them), some souls are multiplied (like Jesus's soul- quite a few people have copies of that one)
but most souls stay themselves, though they are ever-changing as they take on different incarnations.
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