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Invisiblegiza
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If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC)
    #14032193 - 02/26/11 07:25 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

If reincarnation was proven..
And you could kill your present self and be reincarnated as a human again.. (on earth)
(Your memory stays intact)
Would you start over within 5 years?
You may choose only one


Votes accepted from (02/26/11 07:25 PM) to (No end specified)
View the results of this poll



Edited by giza (02/26/11 09:15 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza] * 1
    #14032258 - 02/26/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

what?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032259 - 02/26/11 07:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Start over? Suicide?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinen.dangerously
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032314 - 02/26/11 07:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I would probably hunt more.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Kickle]
    #14032362 - 02/26/11 07:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Start over? Suicide?




Yes, suicide in a way except the ceasing to exist part.


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OfflineSimonJester
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032581 - 02/26/11 08:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I've always viewed life as a movie. You bought the ticket, so you might as well enjoy the show.

Even if its a terrible film, it only lasts a little while.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032605 - 02/26/11 08:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
Start over? Suicide?




Yes, suicide in a way except the ceasing to exist part.




Does this question come with any of the normal stipulations surrounding reincarnation? AKA if you commit suicide you will reincarnate in a hell realm?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: SimonJester] * 1
    #14032608 - 02/26/11 08:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

i don't understand why you have to commit suicide to start over...

Why don't you just start over without killing yourself?

Unless you actually change your way of living then killing yourself would not actually help. You'd just be reincarnated back as ignorant and repeat the process.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: SimonJester]
    #14032634 - 02/26/11 08:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

n.dangerously said:
I would probably hunt more.




:lol:

i voted no, unless there are specificly exact reasons to move on and i could do it in the most responsible way, like going way out in the woods so no one would have to find me. i'd have to be pretty far out of any sort of community though, i'd hate to think my view would be STAL'd another 30 or something yrs, or maybe not even get another chance to contribute to a storehouse of collective knowledge.

I'm not sure what point suicide would prove... unless it was to show yall that spontaneous combustion is a bona fide phenomenon :onfire:


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #14032639 - 02/26/11 08:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

and yeah, what those two above me said, too!


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #14032744 - 02/26/11 09:08 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Hold on let me edit the post to be more specific..
Sorry for the delay of response.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032819 - 02/26/11 09:18 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I want to be reincarnated as a rock.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: deCypher]
    #14032831 - 02/26/11 09:19 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I want to be reincarnated as a rock.




Any specific rock? Like a star or planet?


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: deCypher]
    #14032843 - 02/26/11 09:21 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

rocks are there for a longngngngng time... he has that advantage.


wait, how are you gonna complete the reincarnation cycle if your a rock? when are you gonna "die" rock-man?


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #14032873 - 02/26/11 09:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

so true. If it's a huge mistake, you're rather stuck :lol:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #14032883 - 02/26/11 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well my guess with being a rock depends on if you can see or not.
You could observe life until you figured out how to become another form.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza] * 1
    #14032906 - 02/26/11 09:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Dude the edited version of your question is even more pointless...

If you could remember everything then why oh why would you bother killing yourself?


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032911 - 02/26/11 09:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Funny you said a rock though..
I once thought that hell was being a star since the bible said you burn for eternity..


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032916 - 02/26/11 09:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
You could observe life until you figured out how to become another form.





i wanna know more about how this works


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14032921 - 02/26/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Dude the edited version of your question is even more pointless...

If you could remember everything then why oh why would you bother killing yourself?




To restart in a new body of course.
Put your life on a new path.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032927 - 02/26/11 09:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

idk if you'd be on a new path if you remembered everything, tho..


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #14032951 - 02/26/11 09:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

penelope_tree said:
Quote:

giza said:
You could observe life until you figured out how to become another form.





i wanna know more about how this works




Well if you're a rock such as a star and you could see..
Imagine all the knowledge you'd gain with millions of years of observing

Sounds odd though, hah.


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InvisiblePenelope_Tree
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032966 - 02/26/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

YEAH, BUT IDK IF YOU'D BE alive...

cuz the whole communication thing.

sorry, my caps lock was on.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #14032968 - 02/26/11 09:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

penelope_tree said:
idk if you'd be on a new path if you remembered everything, tho..




Well if you have nostalgia you can start over and re-live those moments and make them last alot longer. I think you'd enjoy life more and more each time.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14032972 - 02/26/11 09:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I thought we were coming back as humans...

If you came back as a star you're not going to observe anything because a star doesnt have sentience.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14032978 - 02/26/11 09:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


Well if you have nostalgia you can start over and re-live those moments and make them last alot longer. I think you'd enjoy life more and more each time.




whats stopping you from doing that in this life?


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14032990 - 02/26/11 09:42 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
I thought we were coming back as humans...

If you came back as a star you're not going to observe anything because a star doesnt have sentience.




I was replying with that in regards to your post.
Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:


Well if you have nostalgia you can start over and re-live those moments and make them last alot longer. I think you'd enjoy life more and more each time.




whats stopping you from doing that in this life?




That's why I voted no.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14033000 - 02/26/11 09:43 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:


Well if you have nostalgia you can start over and re-live those moments and make them last alot longer. I think you'd enjoy life more and more each time.




whats stopping you from doing that in this life?




This question may not be appealing to you now, but imagine being 70+years old and having a body that is not capable of doing certain activities.


Edited by giza (02/26/11 09:43 PM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14033012 - 02/26/11 09:45 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

well I actually have a lot of physical problems with my body... and I used to lay at night and "pray" that I could have a new body. but now I am actually happy because of the changes I have made in my mind.

And I am only young so I will be with this body for a long time to come. Knowing what I do now I would actually choose to keep this weak body that I have.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14033031 - 02/26/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

That's great.
:awethumb:


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14033050 - 02/26/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But then again as you get older, in some cases you start to lose your memory..

So wouldn't you want to start over while you still remember the things you want to remember?


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14033070 - 02/26/11 09:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I can't really answer that question cos fortunately I have still got a good memory. I can speak from the physical point of view though.

I think it's about escaping from these things you cling onto. Does it really matter if you forget everything?


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14033095 - 02/26/11 09:55 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes, if you completely forget everything you would not know who you are. Maybe your memories keep you alive in a sense, they let you know that you are alive.

Bare with me on this.. I've got something else will take me a few minutes to type because I'm dealing with a great euphoria at the moment.


Edited by giza (02/26/11 09:57 PM)


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14033188 - 02/26/11 10:10 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Are you tripping?


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14033218 - 02/26/11 10:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No, I don't take my meds every now and then to test myself.
May take awhile on the subject, gotta figure out if it's moronic or not, hah.
Don't want to keep you waiting.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14033283 - 02/26/11 10:27 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Keep going on the memories keeping you alive thing! It's a very important topic


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14033295 - 02/26/11 10:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay, thank you very much. +5


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14033298 - 02/26/11 10:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
I want to be reincarnated as a rock.




Any specific rock? Like a star or planet?




A comet might be interesting... get to see the sights of the solar system for a bit and then back out again for a long silent tour of the vast emptiness of space.  :psychsplit:


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: deCypher]
    #14033351 - 02/26/11 10:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

True, being the sun of a system of planets with life would be fun too.
Technically you would be God to the existees.


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InvisibleBlondell_Letrange
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: durantz]
    #14033409 - 02/26/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Dude the edited version of your question is even more pointless...

If you could remember everything then why oh why would you bother killing yourself?




So you could attempt to live your life differently? Edit out the "mistakes?"


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #14033427 - 02/26/11 10:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
I want to be reincarnated as a rock.






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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #14033430 - 02/26/11 10:52 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

:rofldrunk:


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: deCypher]
    #14033713 - 02/26/11 11:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Okay I want to get this out so I'm going to attempt to make it understandable..

Following is my opinion.
Very open to everything you have an arguement against.

Perhaps we already do reincarnate but during this process we forget or are simply unaware of it happening.

Following are based on what I've heard/seen during my life.

The older people get the less they remember things.
- such as forgetting how to go to the toilet.
Have you learned anything from the past that you forget now?
- such as high school/middle school/college
How do we know this doesn't occur with other things..
- do you remember specifically what you did say.. 3 years and 10 days ago?

9 months of complete darkness or dreaming would do damage to your memory, right?

Now to delve a little deeper..

How many are aware of the time they enter dreams from the time they are sleeping?
- rare right?

What if reincarnation happens and we just have not been able to recognize it happening because we are not self aware enough.

Now what would happen if a totally aware elderly person dies naturally but is self aware to recognize between their reality and their dreams..
If reincarnation is true would this person be coherent enough to recognize they have been reborn?

Then there are the 'unexpected' deaths such from a car crash or a stray bullet.

Now if you were not able to recognize your dreams from reality and you were suddenly to go into dreamland how would you know how to distinguish when you come around to your dreams?

People who go into comas sometimes come out remembering nothing at all.
- Perhaps this means that everything we do is irrelevant or we are simply not on the 'right' path.

Now if this is true the question is..
How do we become self aware and keep our memory.
- I think once you are able to control your ability to enter dreams and come out and recognize between the dream and reality you may gain the ability to be aware of your death when you die. (Yes your dreams could be considered your reality but I mean your waking state)

- Do we need some sort of common occurance to keep our memory alive?
Such as love?

Open to everything, let me have it.
Really wanted to get this out, so haven't had much but about an hour to think of enough to type up.


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Offlinedurantz
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) [Re: giza]
    #14034607 - 02/27/11 06:43 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

This is something that I often think about. Will get back to you tomorrow as I am very tired at the moment! But maybe while I'm dreaming I will think about it a bit more :wink:


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14035147 - 02/27/11 10:36 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Restraining myself from detailing the silliness of the question, I think I'll just say no.

With the given conditions and assuming one would be reincarnated into a random human baby, it seems that you're basically asking if one believes that they've received the short end of the stick in terms of their body, or if their suffering forecast in this form is looking particularly gloomy.

This reminds me of playing the old d&d pc games.  I'd keep rerolling my character's starting stats to get the highest spread I could.


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14036240 - 02/27/11 02:09 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DisoRDeR said:
Restraining myself from detailing the silliness of the question, I think I'll just say no.

With the given conditions and assuming one would be reincarnated into a random human baby, it seems that you're basically asking if one believes that they've received the short end of the stick in terms of their body, or if their suffering forecast in this form is looking particularly gloomy.

This reminds me of playing the old d&d pc games.  I'd keep rerolling my character's starting stats to get the highest spread I could.




Just trying to open people's minds to the possibility of it being true

I see no problem with believing in something that may not be true, but gives you closure on dying.
If a person gets depressed, they are given medication to help.
These words are like medication to some who have fear of death.

You telling me it's silly, shows how powerful belief really is.
You seem to have already committed to thinking a certain way about life or death, so much that you called my belief silly. Which is great that you stick by your own beliefs.

I just don't believe you should rule anything that is possible out just because it sounds 'silly'.

There must be reincarnation of some sorts, or there is no point to life at all.
You live, you die..
After those who knew you personally dies your memory dies with them
Which means your life has meant nothing, nothing but a dead memory.

Why would we have existed all these years and not have become non-existent because of irrelevance to us living.

I believe we do reincarnate, it's just that we may not always become human again since there would be so many options to choose from.

Since the human population is still growing, I believe it just a matter of time until we figure out how to reincarnate or live forever.
Our conscious is the most important thing in life, because noone is us and we are no one else.
I would think after all these years of existence we would treasure our conscious enough to figure out how make it immortal.
Obviously life is of some importance for there are laws that govern us from taking anothers life.

Just does not make sense for this not to be true.
It is not like there's not enough room for us.
Can't even fathom how big space is.
Can't tell how many livable planets there are that we could reincarnate at.

If we do not reincarnate there is really nothing


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036300 - 02/27/11 02:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

@Disorder,
Could you detail the silliness, if you have time.
Would love to hear it.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036832 - 02/27/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
If reincarnation was proven..
And you could kill your present self and be reincarnated as a human again.. (on earth)
(Your memory stays intact)



That's not at all how reincarnation is "supposed" to work...


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036838 - 02/27/11 04:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Do you also believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors?  How does reincarnation fit into this perspective, going all the way back down the tree of life to the original self-replicating molecule?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14036883 - 02/27/11 04:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Do you also believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors?  How does reincarnation fit into this perspective, going all the way back down the tree of life to the original self-replicating molecule?




Is Earth the only planet with life on it?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14036893 - 02/27/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Probably not, but how is that relevant?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14036894 - 02/27/11 04:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

There must be reincarnation of some sorts, or there is no point to life at all.
You live, you die..
After those who knew you personally dies your memory dies with them
Which means your life has meant nothing, nothing but a dead memory.




DEATH ANXIETY ALERT! DEATH ANXIETY ALERT! Your reasoning seems to be "If I don't like it, I'm going to ignore it"

And honestly I think you're whole conceptualization is wrong. Life and death are an illusion, the only reason you believe in life and death are because you think in language. When you stop thinking in language and just observe the universe as it is, it's pretty clear that life and death don't really exist


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14036909 - 02/27/11 04:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Do you also believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors?  How does reincarnation fit into this perspective, going all the way back down the tree of life to the original self-replicating molecule?




Is Earth the only planet with life on it?




In either case, the issue still remains.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14036918 - 02/27/11 04:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Probably not, but how is that relevant?




Well why wouldn't lifeforms from other planets be reincarnated on Earth and visa versa?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14036922 - 02/27/11 04:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

But you're just speculating, and when these concepts were "invented" they had no knowledge of life on other planets so it is assumed that they are to be ignored.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: learningtofly]
    #14036925 - 02/27/11 04:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

There must be reincarnation of some sorts, or there is no point to life at all.
You live, you die..
After those who knew you personally dies your memory dies with them
Which means your life has meant nothing, nothing but a dead memory.




DEATH ANXIETY ALERT! DEATH ANXIETY ALERT! Your reasoning seems to be "If I don't like it, I'm going to ignore it"

And honestly I think you're whole conceptualization is wrong. Life and death are an illusion, the only reason you believe in life and death are because you think in language. When you stop thinking in language and just observe the universe as it is, it's pretty clear that life and death don't really exist




No, I am merely putting out one of my questions of life.
When did I say "If I don't like it, I'm going to ignore it"?

I am open to everyones views, not saying I would believe them.
I am just very interested in the ways of becoming immortal, even though there isn't a "way" yet that is known, does not mean there isn't one either.


Edited by giza (02/27/11 04:35 PM)


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: learningtofly]
    #14036929 - 02/27/11 04:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

learningtofly said:
But you're just speculating, and when these concepts were "invented" they had no knowledge of life on other planets so it is assumed that they are to be ignored.




Negative. Study Buddhism... they believe in other worlds with life on it.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14036936 - 02/27/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Do you also believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors?  How does reincarnation fit into this perspective, going all the way back down the tree of life to the original self-replicating molecule?




No I have not studied the thoughts of evolution as of yet.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036938 - 02/27/11 04:38 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

learningtofly said:
Quote:

There must be reincarnation of some sorts, or there is no point to life at all.
You live, you die..
After those who knew you personally dies your memory dies with them
Which means your life has meant nothing, nothing but a dead memory.




DEATH ANXIETY ALERT! DEATH ANXIETY ALERT! Your reasoning seems to be "If I don't like it, I'm going to ignore it"

And honestly I think you're whole conceptualization is wrong. Life and death are an illusion, the only reason you believe in life and death are because you think in language. When you stop thinking in language and just observe the universe as it is, it's pretty clear that life and death don't really exist




No, I am merely putting out one of my questions of life.
When did I say "If I don't like it, I'm going to ignore it"?

I am open to everyones views, not saying I would believe them.
I am just very interested in the ways of becoming immortal, even though there isn't a "way" yet that is known, does not mean there isn't one either.



If you're not afraid of death then why do you want life to have a meaning and why do you want to be immortal?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036949 - 02/27/11 04:40 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Do you also believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors?  How does reincarnation fit into this perspective, going all the way back down the tree of life to the original self-replicating molecule?




No I have not studied the thoughts of evolution as of yet.




Check out Richard Dawkins' The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker... they provide a great introduction to the theory of evolution and natural selection.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036953 - 02/27/11 04:41 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps apes evolved from us.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036989 - 02/27/11 04:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Giza I like your thinking! Theory of Evolution just raises more questions than it answers


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14036991 - 02/27/11 04:48 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

giza said:
Quote:

deCypher said:
Do you also believe that we evolved from ape-like ancestors?  How does reincarnation fit into this perspective, going all the way back down the tree of life to the original self-replicating molecule?




No I have not studied the thoughts of evolution as of yet.



you can observe evolution


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: learningtofly]
    #14037006 - 02/27/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

you can observe evolution




You can observe random mutation?

Wow you must be pretty fricking awesome dude!


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: learningtofly]
    #14037008 - 02/27/11 04:51 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

If you're not afraid of death then why do you want life to have a meaning and why do you want to be immortal?




I don't need it to have meaning I just want to keep on existing in it.

I want to be immortal for several reasons..
Food/Drugs/Entertainment
Living in different ages
- Such as say a planet is in the stone age
I could stay there for years living on that planet, until I get bored.
Then I move on to the next planet
The possibility of supernatural powers..


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14037016 - 02/27/11 04:53 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

haha Giza I'm pretty sure the simple fact that you would be immortal should be a good enough supernatural power!


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14037028 - 02/27/11 04:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Quote:

you can observe evolution




You can observe random mutation?

Wow you must be pretty fricking awesome dude!



:facepalm:


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: learningtofly]
    #14037051 - 02/27/11 05:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Evolution is basically the adaptation to certain elements of life that make it easier for the existee, correct?

So how do humans evolve from a point where they are content and go through life with ease?
Wouldn't we need some sort of hardship to actually evolve for?

Like how apes can break down certain plant proteins and have supernatural strength compared to a human.
That adaptation is from the ape's living conditions over years and years, right?

So if we humans want to evolve to break down those proteins like an ape, wouldn't we have to keep eating these plant proteins in order for our body to figure out how to break them down?

I have something else I'll type up after this gets answered.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14037108 - 02/27/11 05:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

No Giza you're incorect.

Evolution is random mutation. It is completely random...

That is why it is such a weak theory.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14037116 - 02/27/11 05:15 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

What I said makes more sense to me than random mutation..
Okay on to next, give me few minutes.

Thank you all for your insight on the different things.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14037144 - 02/27/11 05:20 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Since there are 2 different tastes..
Does this mean there are infinite amounts of tastes?
Since an apple differs from an orange doesn't this prove the possibility of an infinite amount of different types of tastes?
Same with highs?(drugs)

Since one type of taste was created isn't there the possibility for the different tastes to be infinite?

To those who believe in life on other planets..
This planet has produced thousands if not more different tastes..
- as in fruit/veg/spices/grains
So if there were to be even just 1 more planet out there with life how many different tastes could that planet possibly have?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14037175 - 02/27/11 05:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
No Giza you're incorect.

Evolution is random mutation. It is completely random...

That is why it is such a weak theory.




Evolution is not random mutation, but the evolution of organisms does require mutation of sorts.  And please support your assertion that evolution is a "weak" theory, especially considering it is accepted by most scientists around the world.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14037564 - 02/27/11 06:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
No Giza you're incorect.

Evolution is random mutation. It is completely random...

That is why it is such a weak theory.




No, that is only half of it.  The mutations are random, but the selection is far from random.  Random mutations coupled with non-random selection yields numerous and exotic genetic 'solutions' to the fitness landscape.  Its one of the strongest theories in all of science.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: DieCommie]
    #14038116 - 02/27/11 07:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

that is only half of it




yeah the first half of it...

The second half is built on the premise of the first, which is that organisms undergo random mutation.

Explain the first half to me then I will agree that the theory of evolution is a strong theory.

And just because a theory is accepted does not make it strong, it merely means that it is the best thing (or most culturally acceptable) we have at this point in time.

One very obvious problem is why we still have single celled organisms that are "unevolved"...


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14038252 - 02/27/11 08:16 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
One very obvious problem is why we still have single celled organisms that are "unevolved"...




Source?  And how does this contradict the theory of evolution?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14038360 - 02/27/11 08:30 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Sorry I wasn't specific enough. What I meant is how does it explain why some single celled organisms evolved into multi-celled creatures while others remained single celled?

Everything is evolved, and I do not disagree with the theory of evolution as a means to explain certain change. But the theory is built upon random mutation which is currently unable to be explained...

So the theory is far from complete and I do not see it as a strong argument against the existence of a God.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14038378 - 02/27/11 08:33 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I see no problem with believing in something that may not be true, but gives you closure on dying.





I don't think it's that simple. For me, any belief that isn't based on something logical holds doubt, the doubt being equal in proportion to the belief, and doubt is a form of suffering. I won't say it's true in all cases, but people suffer for their beliefs.

As for reincarnation, it's also not so simple unless you're going to ignore the classical definitions, which generally haven't made in into the West. According to Wikipedia: "a being is born into a Naraka (hell) as a direct result of his or her accumulated karma and resides there for a finite period of time until that karma has achieved its full result. After his or her karma is used up, he or she will be reborn in one of the higher worlds as the result of karma that had not yet ripened."

Believing in Buddhist reincarnation means you may have to spend 3.39738624×10(to the 18th power) years burning in a large oven.

Quote:

I just don't believe you should rule anything that is possible out just because it sounds 'silly'.




It is silly, because it makes no sense, meaning it doesn't seem possible without twisting all that has been witnessed. That doesn't mean there is absolutely no chance it is true, but there is no reasonable logic to support the possibility.

Quote:

There must be reincarnation of some sorts, or there is no point to life at all.




Life is constantly being reincarnated. Plants use seeds and nuts, animals have babies. It is not known if life is occupying a discrete instance of reality, or spans all existence. Both seem odd, but less odd is that life stretches to infinity because it agrees with the currently observed laws of physics, and that would make life an inherent quality of the universe. That is reincarnation of a sort. Karma is also reincarnated. The qualities of one are passed on to the other.

Quote:

I would think after all these years of existence we would treasure our conscious enough to figure out how make it immortal.




It's not from lack of trying. I was in Florida recently and visited Warm Mineral Springs, the supposed place Ponce De Leon ascribed to the Fountain of Youth... shortly before his untimely demise. It's a saltwater spring, always 87 degrees F, with 51 minerals, of which I think sulfur features prominently because the place smells like rotten eggs. It's not going to keep the retirement community alive forever, but a person could certainly believe it, for a while at least.

Biogerontology exists as a science, and while many who study it don't believe unlimited life span is possible, there are guys like Aubrey de Grey who think science will eventually understand and conquer all the biological processes that cause ageing. While living for an unlimited number of years would be nice, it would also increase the chance of dieing from 'unnatural' causes to 100%.

That these individual consciousnesses don't exist forever does make sense. The evidence is everywhere. We're programmed to resist and avoid death at almost any cost, so attempting to accept it can get a little loopy.

Quote:

If we do not reincarnate there is really nothing




Sounds Zen like.

Edit: The plaque at Warm Mineral Springs kinda indicates Ponce De Leon was there, but apparently I read it wrong, and they simply use his name as a marketing gimmick.


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Edited by Rahz (02/27/11 09:52 PM)


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14038881 - 02/27/11 09:35 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
What I meant is how does it explain why some single celled organisms evolved into multi-celled creatures while others remained single celled?




Well, one could explain it by saying that an environment existed wherein eukaryotes had a better chance of surviving to reproduce than prokaryotes, leading to the first event, and another environment somewhere else existed where prokaryotes had a better chance of surviving to reproduce than eukaryotes, leading to the second event.  :shrug:

Quote:

durantz said:
But the theory is built upon random mutation which is currently unable to be explained...




What do you mean by this?

Quote:

durantz said:
I do not see it as a strong argument against the existence of a God.




Evolution isn't intended to argue against the existence of a God.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14038986 - 02/27/11 09:46 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Yes I agree with your explanation. but it does not explain why either of those things existed in the first place.

Well so far we are unable to explain why random mutation occurs. We simply say 'it happens'. If you agree in the laws of cause and effect then we should be able to isolate random mutation to a particular action. So far this has not been done which means that the theory of evolution is incomplete. It's not to say that one day we won't find a cause for random mutations but at this point in time it really is a matter of faith.

I've kinda forgotten why evolution was brought up in this topic. But Giza's initial argument seems to be arguing for a god like existence and then someone brought up evolution as a counter argument.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14038997 - 02/27/11 09:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Cosmic rays cause mutations, incorrect copying and transcription cause mutations, etcetera...


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14039050 - 02/27/11 09:54 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

there is evidence pathogens are a major player in mutation as well.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14039073 - 02/27/11 09:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Cosmic rays cause mutations, incorrect copying and transcription cause mutations, etcetera...





Please provide a reference to this. I'd love to read more


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14039127 - 02/27/11 10:01 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Don't have a specific reference but any good textbook on genetics and evolutionary biology should mention it.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: deCypher]
    #14039447 - 02/27/11 10:47 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Oh I thought you had read a peer reviewed journal article on the topic.

Do i have to read the whole textbook or is there a specific chapter you could direct me to?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14039595 - 02/27/11 11:12 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure searching the index of any good textbook for "mutation" will provide a useful list.  Hell, you can even Google search it.  :cheers:

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIC3Causes.shtml


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14040480 - 02/28/11 06:23 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Could you detail the silliness, if you have time.
Would love to hear it.




Ok, here goes...

It has nothing to do with the belief in reincarnation.  That fits comfortably into the void of currently unknowable things.  The imagination's domain.  Feel free to cling at your leisure.

I too have no problem with people believing in things that aren't true.  From what I've seen, we all do so for much of our lives.  To fight the force of irrational beliefs is to take on a great battle.

I personally find the truth or fiction of reincarnation to be irrelevant. Why?  Because we don't retain memories from past incarnations.  There is no I to experience the next because I didn't experience the last.  Maybe in the inter-incarnation waiting room I'll be proven wrong, but the other souls and I will all have a good laugh about it as I get prepped for a low-caste life in India, remembering the simpler days when we were all chillin in the protozoa pond.

So, to the silliness...

Quote:

If reincarnation was proven..
And you could kill your present self and be reincarnated as a human again.. (on earth)
(Your memory stays intact)




Ok, you are proposing a world in which reincarnation is a real phenomenon and memories stay intact from one incarnation to the next.  Obviously this isn't true now, so at what point does it take effect?

case 1 - An alternate world in which this has always been true...

None of us would exist, so we can't answer the question.

case 2 - Reincarnation is suddenly proven now-ish and the ability to retain memories between incarnations is made available...

Retain memories... at what point in the development of the human's cognitive functions would theese memories become accessible?  Would I appear as an infant engineer with ex-girlfriends?  Would all the trauma and extasy of life be available immediately for processing?  How would this affect the development of the new me? 

This is not a field I have studied in great depth, but the impressions of experience on memory seem to be directly related to the structure and training of the brain at the time.  How do you suppose a whole lifetime of memories might be downloaded and stored?  Like a film flashing before  the child's eyes?  My toddler nephew has a very different impression of Wall-E than I.

Then there is the matter of the total revolution of society that would likely result from this incarnation revelation.  Paintball is for pussies, we play with real bullets now.  Goodbye christianity and other linear spiritual systems.

etc.

edit: swapped the word 'memory' for 'belief' in the original.  interesting.


Edited by DisoRDeR (02/28/11 08:33 PM)


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #14041440 - 02/28/11 11:55 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

@Disorder

I put (Your memory stays intact) for the good of the question.
Because only way reincarnation would to be proven is if some of the memory of the previous life was remembered.

I also had other intentions when asking the question, but not many said yes as I presumed.

With the whole memory thing I was trying to point out that even now we don't fully remember everything of our past, only little bits and segments are remembered, if you have done something that is not 'worth' you to remember such as turning on the tv.. doing something repetetive as you usually do everyday..

With the whole evolution thing I believe reincarnation is the next step if it isn't already true.. We as humans lived for quite a long time for us not to adapt to so-called 'death'.

I would think we as a species would evolve to find a way around this so-called inevitability.

I rather call it adaptation more so than evolution because I have not fully studied evolution.

But as a people most seem to suffer because of the death of another.
And some suffer their whole lives worrying about death.

Would we not subconsciously be constantly trying to figure a detour around death because of the woes it brings on us? If we evolved to have hands and fingers that make our life a little 'easier' what good does that do if you have only a few decades to use them?

It is strange how we seem to understand things and that sometimes knowledge just comes to us from pure intuition or free thinking.

If reincarnation does exist and we don't remember the things from it but maybe knowledge that is true sticks in our brain because that knowledge is relevant to use.

And if our brain can only contain so much memory I believe the brain would rule out the 'irrelevant' things aside from things of importance such as knowledge. Maybe that's why we never remember our past lives experiences but maybe the knowledge we gained during that time sticks.

And with the common occurance to trigger feelings we felt during the past. Love seems to be very strange in regard to memory. I don't know if it's just me but I can't remember certain things like the score of a game I played in sports when I was 12, but I can remember the people I thought I was in love with.

The form we take on next is what I don't fully understand but I believe I have a thought or two of it.


Edited by giza (02/28/11 11:59 AM)


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14045514 - 02/28/11 09:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Another question based on the buddhism rebirth cycle..

Says that one of the 3 unfortunate realms is animals.
So does this mean we shouldn't have compassion for animals?
Since they must have gained bad karma from a previous life they have been reborn into one of the 'unfortunate' realms.

Does their servitude/suffering grant them positive karma so that eventually they can be reborn into a human/higher life form?

Also another thing to support reincarnation..
If rebirth is true but is based on your karma on whether or not you come back as a human again or a lower life form this could possibly be why we have not been able to confirm this as a fact as of yet.

Is this why the dalai lama is held up in such a high position because that his karma is in the positive so much that he may be able to reincarnate as a human being yet again?


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Invisiblegiza
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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14045605 - 02/28/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

So trying to 'save' the animals is actually holding them back from gaining positive karma.

Makes alot of sense on why we eat meat/use animals as we do.

Some become companions/protectors of humans
Others feed the masses.

Parts of animals satisfy people's 'suffering' of hunger.


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14045647 - 02/28/11 09:56 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Giza I've been reading a bit on the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and I think the end goal is to not be reincarnated...

You are meant to escape to Nirvana.

So it seems that it would be more benficial to live out this lifecycle for as long as you can. Committing suicide would just shorten this life cycle but then you would have to go through everything again in the next life.

Even if you remembered certain things there would be countless things you don't yet know.

Would you commit suicide every time you made a mistake?


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: durantz]
    #14045841 - 02/28/11 10:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

durantz said:
Giza I've been reading a bit on the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and I think the end goal is to not be reincarnated...

You are meant to escape to Nirvana.

So it seems that it would be more benficial to live out this lifecycle for as long as you can. Committing suicide would just shorten this life cycle but then you would have to go through everything again in the next life.

Even if you remembered certain things there would be countless things you don't yet know.

Would you commit suicide every time you made a mistake?




No I'm smarter than that, if I made a mistake I would take the reprecussions that go along with it.
Even though recognizing the mistake and giving your life because of it may in turn give you more karma than you have taken..


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Re: If reincarnation was proven.. would you? (poll) (MORE SPECIFIC) [Re: giza]
    #14047390 - 03/01/11 08:37 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:


But as a people most seem to suffer because of the death of another.
And some suffer their whole lives worrying about death.

Would we not subconsciously be constantly trying to figure a detour around death because of the woes it brings on us?




Yes, I think we would.

Perhaps we'll some day develop the technology to allow a lossless continuation of conciousness.

Until then, we'll just keep trying to navigate detours around death, creating comfortable fictions, leaving lasting impressions, stretching biological limitations, honing honest examination.


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