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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Libertarian Debate
    #5235819 -

In another thread, Ancalagon said:

"The fact that almost every new debate that occurs requires me to go through the whole corpus of libertarian arguments is really bad for both the threads and my well being."

So I'd like to debate the merits of Libertarianism. I like their philosophy on personal freedom. However, I strongly disagree with their philosopy on corporate freedom. And I also strongly disagree with their philosophy that Government should be reduced to the extent they would like.

I'll start with privitization of roads, since Ancalogon mentioned that in the "Persecuting the sick and disabled" thread. If roads are privatized, what is to prevent the owners from jacking up the prices from say $5 to $50? Most people would probably have no choice but to pay this amount, since people need to get to work to make money and feed themselves, and it would take a long time for a competitor to construct another set of roads. Not to mention, roads are a "natural monopoly". It doesn't make a lot of sense for private companies to construct five different sets of roads all going to the same destination.

Can anyone explain how this situation would be handled in a Libertarian society?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #5235956 -

Don't get so caught up in the Libertarian label thing. We are not nearly as homogenous as you might think. For instance, I can see compelling arguments for general taxation to fund roads, specific taxation to fund roads (gas tax), and fee for use to fund roads. It's not really a litmus issue and arguing over it is a distraction and basicly navel gazing.


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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #5235994 -

My fairly ignorant view is that the strictest Libertarianism wouldn't realistically work in a diverse country, simply because I don't think more than five or six percent of people would want or be able to handle that level of responsibility. I, like most people, am more than willing to give up certain defined freedoms in order to insure a bit of defined coddling for whoever needs it.

I do like the idea though. And if they could consolidate and get their shit together and gather, they could probably get something good going. I also like a lot of the Libertarians here, especially Ancalagon. And I was extremely impressed with their 2004 presidential candidate, who I almost regret not voting for. I don't really care for the clear-as-day Liberals and Conservatives who take some comfort in calling themselves Libertarians. It makes the party look like a confused joke.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Gijith]
    #5236028 -

Libertarians are more conservative than Republicans


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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #5236061 -

libertarianism is not a complete, comprehensive plan for an ideologically consistent government. the logical conclusion of the philosophical underpinnings of libertarianism is anarchy - that no government is legitimate. unfortunately, government is inevitable, and libertarians would like to see as little of it as possible.

often opponents make statements like, "even you recognize that there must be some taxation. doesn't that conflict with your views of taxation?". they are right in asking these questions. a "libertarian government" is at odds with itself... it's a contradiction in terms. libertarianism is anti-government.

questions are often asked of libertarians that go "how would a libertarian government do ______". answers very often involve rather non-libertarian solutions. aha! an inconsistency, they say. of course it's inconsistent. there is no "libertarian society", and of course it doesn't work in reality. it's a direction to move in. the best arrangement, anarchy, is unattainable.


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Edited by wilshire (01/28/06 06:25 PM)

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5236142 -

zappaisgod said:
Libertarians are more conservative than Republicans


Not socially more conservative.

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Redstorm]
    #5238090 -

Social conservatism is leaving people alone to mostly act as they see fit. Social fascism is a liberal posture of the Republican Party


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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5238271 -

Perhaps the Repub's should start practicing that ideal then?

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Redstorm]
    #5238343 -

I'd like to see it. A true conservative party. I have always thought that Repubs were only halfway there, at best. Out of expedience they have to get my support though because the Dems are a fucking train wreck


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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5238352 -

If they would get the fuck out of people's business, I would actually consider voting for them. I might be able to handle their foreign policy if, the the same time, my rights were secure.

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: wilshire]
    #5238476 -

wilshire said:
often opponents make statements like, "even you recognize that there must be some taxation. doesn't that conflict with your views of taxation?". they are right in asking these questions. a "libertarian government" is at odds with itself... it's a contradiction in terms. libertarianism is anti-government.


As far as I know LVT isn't at odds with Libertarianism.

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Re: Libertarian Debate [Re: Redstorm]
    #5238944 -

Redstorm said:
If they would get the fuck out of people's business, I would actually consider voting for them. I might be able to handle their foreign policy if, the the same time, my rights were secure.


If they actually practised what they preach when it came to fiscal conservatism, adopted a more isolationist stance in foreign policy matters, and stopped kissing ass to the Christian nutcases...I would vote for the Repubs.

Edited by RandalFlagg (01/29/06 03:06 PM)

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Political Discussion
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