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OfflineAmoeba665
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the beginning is also the end
    #468747 - 11/25/01 12:33 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

by William S Burroughs

"I am not an addict. I am the addict. The addict I invented to keep this show on the junk road. I am all the addicts and all the junk in the world. I am junk and I am hooked forever. Now I am using junk as a basic illustration. Extend it. I am reality and I am hooked, on, reality. Give me an old wall and a garbage can and I can by God sit there forever. Because I am the wall and I am the garbage can. But I need someone to sit there and look at the wall and the garbage can. That is, I need a human host. I can't look at anything. I am blind. I can't sit anywhere. I have nothing to sit on. And let me take this opportunity of replying to my creeping opponents. It is not true that I hate the human species. I just don't like human beings. I don't like animals. WHat I feel is not hate. In your verbal garbage the closest word is distaste. Still I must live in and on human bodies. An intolerable situation you will agree. To make that situation clearer suppose you were stranded on a planet populated by insects. You are blind. You are a drug addict. But you find a way to make the insects bring you junk. Even after thousands of years living there you still feel that basic structural distaste for your insect servants. You feel it every time they touch you. Well that is exactly the way I feel about my human servants. Consequently since my arrival some five hundred thousands years ago I have had one though in mind. What you call the history of mankind is the history of my escape plan. I don't want 'love'. I don't want forgiveness. All I want is out of here."

Question: "Mr. Martin, how did all this start? How did you get here in the first place? If you found conditions so distasteful why didn't you leave at once?"

"Good questions I mean good questions, young man. Obviously I am not omnipotent. My arrival here was a wreck. The ship came apart like a rotten undervest. The accident in which I lost my sight. I was the only survivor. The other members of the crew...well...you understand...uh sooner or later...So I decided to act sooner. And I have acted sooner ever since. The entire human film was prerecorded. I will explain briefly how this is done. Take a simple virus illness like hepatitis. THis illness has an incubation period of two weeks. So if I know when the virus is in (and I do because I put it there) I know how you will look two weeks from now: yellow. To put it another way: I take a picture or rather a seies of pictures of you with hepatitis. Now I put my virus negatives into your liver to develop. Not far to reach: remember I live in your body. The whole hepatitis film is prerecorded two weeks before the opening scene when you notice your eyes are a little yellower than usual. Now this is a simple operation. Not all of my negatives develop by any means. All right now back to basic junk. Some character takes a bang of heoin for the first time. It takes maybe sixty consecutive shots before I can welcome another addict. (Room for one more inside, sir.) Having taken one shot it becomes mathematically probable that taken, he will take another given the opportunity and I can always arrange that. Having taken two shots it becomes more probable that he will take a third. One negative developed makes others almost unavoidable. The same procedure can be applied to any human activity. If a man makes a certain amount of money by certain means he will go on making more money by the same means and so forth. Human activites are drearily predictable. It should now be obvious that what you call 'reality' is a function of those precisely predictable because prerecorded human activities. Now what could louse up a prerecorded biologic film? Obviously random factors. That is someone cutting my word and image lines at random. In short the cut up method of Brion Gysin which derives from Hassan I Sabbah and the planet Saturn. Well I've had a spot of toruble before but nothing serious. There was Rimbaud. And a lot of peopleyou never heard of for good reasons. People who got too close one way or another. There was Tristan Tzara and the Surrealist Lark. I soon threw a block into that. Broke them all down to window dressers. So why didn't I stop Mr. Gysin in his tracks? I have ways of dealing with wise guys or I wouldn't be here. Early answer to use on anyone considering to interfere. Tricks I learned after the rash. Well perhaps I didn't take it seriously at first. And maybe I wanted to hear what he had to say about getting out. Always keep as many alternative moves open as possible. Next thing the blockade on planet earth is broken. Explorers moving in whole armies. And the usual do-good missions talk abouit educating the natives for self-government. And some hick sheriff from the nova heat charging me with 'outrageous colonial mismanagement and attempted nova.' Well they can't hang a nova rap on me. What I planned was simply to move out the biologic film to planet Venus and start over. Take along a few good natives to stock the new pitch and for the rest total disposal. That's not nova that's manslaughter. Second degree. And I planned it painless. I dislike sceaming. Disturbs my medications."

Question: "Mr. Martin, in the face of the evidence, no one can deny that nova was planned. The reports reek of nova."

"It will be obvious that I myself as an addict can only be a determined factor in someone else's equation. It's the old army game. Now you see me now you don't."

Question: "Mr. Martin, you say 'give me a wall and a garbage can and I can sit there forever.' Almost in th next sentence you say 'All I want is out of here.' Aren't you contradicting yourself?"

"You are confused about the word 'self.' I could by God sit there forever if I had a self to sit in that would sit still for it. I don't. As soon as I move in on any self all that self wants is to be somewhere else. Anywhere else. Now there you sit in your so-called 'self.' Suppose you could walk out of that self. Some people can incidentally. I don't encourage this but it happens and threatens to become pandemic. So you walk out of your body and stand across the room. Now what form would the being that walks out of your body have? Obviously it would have precisely your form. So all you have done is take the same form from one place to another. You ahve taken great trouble and pain (believe me there is no pain like flesh withdrawal consciously experienced) and you have gotten precisely back where you started. To really leave human form you would have to leave human form that is leave the whole concept of word and image. You cannot leave the human image in the human image. You cannot leave human form in human form. And you cannot think or conceive in non-image terms by mathematical definition of a being in my biologic film which is a series of images. Does that answer your question? I thought not."

Question: "Mr. Martin, tell us something about yourself. Do you have any vices other than junk? Any hobbies? Any diversions?"

"Your vices other than junk I manipulate but do not share. Sex is profoundly distasteful to a being of my uh mineral origins. Hobbies? Chess. Diversions? I enjoy a good show and a good performer. Just an old showman. Well when you have to kill your audience every few years to keep them in your seats it's about time to pack it in."

Question: "Mr. Martin, I gather that your plan to move the show to planet Venus has, uh, miscarried. Is that correct?"

"Yeah it looks that way. The entire film is clogged."

Question: In that case, Mr. Martin, where will you go when you go if you go?"

"That's quite a problem. You see I'm on the undesirable list with every immigration department in the galaxy. 'Who him? Don't let him out here."

Question: "Mr. Martin, don't you have any friends?"

"There are no friends. I found that out after the crash. I found that out before the others. That's why I'm still here. There are no friends. There are allies. There are accomplices. No one wants friends unless he is shit scared or unless he is planning a caper he can't pull off by himself."

Question: "Mr. Martin, what about the others who were involved in this crash? Aren't they still alive somewhere in some form?"

"You don't have to look far. They are sitting right here."

Question: "Who were these others?"

"There was an army colonel, a technicial, and a woman."

Question: "Won't you have to come to some sort of terms with your, uh, former accomplices?"

"To my disgruntled former associates I have this to say. You were all set to cross me up for the countdown. You think I can't read your stupid virus mind lady? And you, you technical bastard with your mind full of formulae I can't read. And you Colonel Bradly waiting to shoot me in the back. The lot of you. Blind and paralyzed I still beat you to the draw."

Question: "Mr. Martin, what sort of place did you people come from?"

"What sort of place did we come from. Well if you want the asnwe to that question, just look around, buster. Just look around."

"Ladies and Gentlemen, you have just heard an interview with Mr. Martin, sole survivor of the first attempt to send up a space capsule from planet earth. Mr. Martin has been The Man Of A Thousand Lies. Well, he didn't have time for a thousand but I think he did pretty well in the time allotted. An dI feel reasonably sure that if the other crew members could be here with us tonight they would also do a pretty good job of lying.But please rememebr that nothing is true in space. That there is no time in space- that what goes up under such auspices must come down- that the beginning is also the end.

"Ladies and gentlemen, these our actors bid you a long last good night."


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InvisibleWorld Spirit
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Amoeba665]
    #468757 - 11/25/01 12:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

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InvisiblePynchon
Slow Learner

Registered: 04/28/01
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Amoeba665]
    #468821 - 11/25/01 02:06 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

_The Burroughs File_....I'm impressed.

Actually sort of perplexed.

Recognise this one?

"You must learn to live alone in silence. Anyone who prays in space is not there."

-- from The Adding Machine


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Amoeba665]
    #469519 - 11/25/01 08:51 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Iv'e only read "Naked Lunch" by him, and I'm not sure if I want to read anyghing more after that one...


--------------------
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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #469689 - 11/26/01 02:15 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Well, that was thoroughly fascinating. I like it.


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OfflineAmoeba665
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Ulysees]
    #474874 - 11/30/01 03:55 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

yeah i have trouble reading his stuff too... sometimes it seems like insane babble thinly disguised as stories, but i'm still strangely drawn to his unique twisted genius. really i'm amazed at the fact that he ever wrote anything at all..

but one of the things i was hoping for by posting this is to hear some thoughts about the concept he presents here... that we may be slaves to our gods and perhaps instead of trying to become one with god, we should be trying to escape. it seems like, unless it is true that we somehow brought this existence upon ourselves, god is offering something more like a way to resign oneself to a life of slavery, and teaching it to us through constant beatings. and even if it is true that we did this, why did we do it? should we not follow through with what we started? i know this is pretty abstract but i don't have many beliefs, mainly lots of questions, but one thing i do know is that i want to be true to myself and not be deceived. i know there are people who follow this path, but i don't know much about their beliefs and what they expect to accomplish. any comments on this thought?


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Amoeba665]
    #475060 - 11/30/01 06:34 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Oh no, you didn't have to write that, why, oh why?
You see, on my last consultion with Salvia I had a vision about where our humanity is headed. Right towards our "god" who is after our "souls", or rather our experience. The so-called unity with god. As I was dragged towards this white(!) light I feverishly clawed at the walls of our cultural reality-tunnel to get out.

I don't know what you think about Castanedas books, but Don Juan tells him about exactly this. The idea is that we are the universe's means to percieve itself. At the end of our lives we are assimilated unto this whole, and we disintegrate, more or less. So if you recount your life, once from now to the beginning, then in a spontaneous way (both take years) you will be transmitting what "god" craves from you, and you are free to go wherever you want.

I suggest you read some of his books, even if you think he was a charlatan. I don't know, but it resonates so powerfully with me that I cannot help but believe. Especially when he talks about our universe being a predatory one.

This frightens me a bit. I don't want to go wrong on this one! In this light I think it might be true that heaven is boring, and hell is a lot more fun. Perhaps in this "heaven" you lead a passive-afterlife and are free of all worries maily because you are now just a small part of a greater being. But if hell is freedom, I'm taking the highway man!

Besides, remember that "as above, so below". So a predatory universe makes sense to me. And look at humans. However much more enlightened and trancendent we might be compared to cows, what do we do to them? Eat them, although we don't have any evil intent, we can't help it, we need them as food. We are but cattle I fear... :shocked:

I might of course be wrong. I am trying to run at least 7 different world-views at the same time, so some of it is bound to make no sense...


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475154 - 11/30/01 08:00 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

What's wrong with being eaten by the universe? To fear that is a pointless and bitter pain, cause you ain't gonna beat it. If you could, what would you be? Well, unless you find somewhere else to exist, you're screwed. You eat the universe every day, and every day it is eating you. It's a symbiotic relationship whether you like it or not.
Anyhow, I think this only applies to your flesh, the most meaningless part of "you". Since your flesh is here already, there's no way to deny it of the universe. Your flesh will be devoured. Your mind, though it may be "retreived", probably won't be any less special or any less meaningful. The problem comes when you identify yourself with Material possesions. Yes, those will be taken from you, but they were never really yours to begin with... They have always belonged to the universe.
The body may be a temple of sorts, but that doesn't mean you should spend all your time amassing trinkets and decorating your temple, to make your temple feel good. For it's what goes on inside the temple that counts. Without the ceremonies there is no need for a temple, and the ceremony can be conducted from a grand castle just as well as it can be conducted from a straw house.


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Ulysees]
    #475245 - 11/30/01 09:30 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

I'm not talking about being eaten by the universe, but by whatever "god" spawned us. We might find that our heavenly father isn't that benevolent after all. The earht might be his plate, and we are the main course. This is not physical, i'm talking about what is left of you spiritually when you die.

You don't need to tell me about the insignificance of matter. I'm fine with the fact that I will have to abandon my body sometime, and it is perfectly ok for me to be eaten by maggots and fungi. It is not however, fine for me to be sucked into a greater being if I can avoid it. If there's no way around it, fine. Then it's inevitable, I can do nothing but accept. It there is a back door, I'm outta here! :smile:

>Your mind, though it may be "retreived", probably won't be any less special or any less meaningful.

Maybe not, but if I would have the possibility to freely roam the other worlds on my own , I would rather choose that option.

>The problem comes when you identify yourself with Material possesions.
I don't.

>the ceremony can be conducted from a grand castle just as well as it can be conducted from a straw house.
I would like a small stone-cottage on a cliff overviewing the ocean thank you very much :smile:

Just like we can't just sit on our asses and think everything will be ok regarding wars/famine/etc. in the world, you can't just sit on your ass and meditate and think all will be ok in the end. No offense! I'm not saying meditation is bad, I do it too, don't misunderstand. But I'm not so sure that if you don't engage yourself in your death, well, you have no choice as far as your after-life destiny goes. We choose all the time, and death does not mean the end of that.

P.S. I am not as rigid in these thought-patterns as it might seem. I try out new ideas all the time, and any criticism is wellcome anytime.


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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InvisibleUlysees
Power of Lard

Registered: 10/06/01
Posts: 5,060
Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475278 - 11/30/01 10:04 PM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Hey man, I know what you're saying. I know that we have to take action regarding the physical things like famine and whatnot, those aren't gonna cure themselve!

I think that when you're seperated from your body (a kind of isolation tank for those who do not occasionaly dissolve their egos and their boundaries, through whatever means) you won't have the same feelings of wanting to travel around on your own like a cosmic tourist, cause I think you might be doing it anyhow!
If you are in fact rejoining the collective, I don't think it's the same as being eaten, but more of returning to your previous state. I don't think that the information will be extracted from YOU (as might be the case if there is a God sucking you dry) but that you will be sharing your earthly experiences with everything (which is then in essense yourself.)
If I could avoid this, and go zooming off as "Ulysees" (umm, ya that's my real name...) :wink: I would perhaps enjoy it for awhile, but I'd rather return to the infinite knowledge that is "the collective". I don't think theres a God with his own personality or anything like that, but that WE are the God, the God is the universe...

So, I think that whatever happens, you might actually not be dissapointed. (I'm running out of nifty ways of putting it.)

I think I know what you were talking about, but this probably still isn't what you have in mind. I think we believe in much of the same things, just that I'm looking forward to rejoining what I have not in fact left (what I am feeling and what I interpret as "me" is are a bunch of things I have experienced and put in chemical storage, and everything I continue to experience I compare to these things, all the while grabbing and integrating certain things I come along. When this chemical storage is gone, I will not be gone, but I will be what I never ceased to be, the infinite.)


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Anonymous

Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475480 - 12/01/01 12:48 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In the end, there can be only one.


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Ulysees]
    #475599 - 12/01/01 03:20 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Ulysees:
You are turning my words into something nice and positive, I don't want that! :laugh:

>"...but I'd rather return to the infinite knowledge that is "the collective"
Yeah, of course, but in my scenario ther is no infinite knowledge to return to, not yet. I am not working out from the idea that I am just percieveing the truth from another angle than you. I am working out from the possibility that what we might think is a mulit-interpretatory truth is indeed a lie. Something is camouflagin itself to remain undetected.
In this scenario you are also not returning to your natural state if you choose to merge. I have decided to take in on me the fact that I feel imprisoned, and the feeling that things are not as they seem (this can be interpreted in a booggle-yer-mind-illion ways, I know). This has all been reinforced by several experiences Iv'e had, on psychedelics and otherwise, that I take for good fish.

Try to put yourself in this position, (without re-interpretation, accept it at face value for an experiment):
The god that awaits you after death turns out to be a mulit-dimensional predator dragging the whole of humanity towards it by tentacles that reach throughout the whole of history. Human reality is a self-enclosed fractal created by this being as a means of keeping us where we are.
What do you do?

>I don't think theres a God with his own personality or anything like that, but that WE are the God, the God is the universe
I agree, but I believe it to be true on a greater scale. The next step isn't merging with god. That lies much farther ahead. There are infinite levels to progress to before you reach that goal at the end of time. And then, only then, will you return to your true source, merge with the infinite knowledge. Then the purpose of the universe will be fulfilled.
The only thing that that remains then is for death to put up the chairs and turn off the lights before he leaves :smile:

(Oh, if I get too weird for you; I blame it on the drugs :smile:)


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: ]
    #475602 - 12/01/01 03:24 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Shroomism:

>In the end, there can be only one.
That reminds me of the music for "Highlander" by Queen. But I guess you had something else in mind :smile:. Just have a look at the end of my reply to Ulysees above. I think "the one" lies farther away than only one death, it is not going to be that easy! :laugh:


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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Anonymous

Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475622 - 12/01/01 03:41 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Heh...actually when I said that I was thinking of Highlander


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Anonymous

Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475627 - 12/01/01 03:44 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

In reply to:

Try to put yourself in this position, (without re-interpretation, accept it at face value for an experiment):
The god that awaits you after death turns out to be a mulit-dimensional predator dragging the whole of humanity towards it by tentacles that reach throughout the whole of history. Human reality is a self-enclosed fractal created by this being as a means of keeping us where we are.
What do you do?




Poke him in the eye for eternity


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Offlinethe universe
Harbinger ofEldritch Despair
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475633 - 12/01/01 03:49 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

HA HA! We are creating something better than this tentacled predator "god" at every choice we make! Humanity can kill this beast! We can become greater and therefore fulfill the meaning of the universe!
Don't just die and wait to be eaten! Get up and DO something to change shit, asshole!
I'm pretty drunk right now, and I am taking your words and twisting them to fit MY own meaning, but, what else does anyone do, huh?
Back to the original post....ah, fuck the original post, it helped create this post anyway.


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"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: the universe]
    #475642 - 12/01/01 03:58 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

ahhh, gotta love alcohol. It is waht sparked my participation in this thread anyway. Let's all get drunk! :laugh:

>I am taking your words and twisting them to fit MY own meaning, but, what else does anyone do, huh?
how true


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: ]
    #475646 - 12/01/01 04:01 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Very good answer, except for two minor details:
1: It has no eye to get poked in
2: You have left the physical plane, and "finger" is now a long-forgotten concept to you...

I will thake these two posts as a signt that I went too far on this one. From now on I'm back to the everything-will-be-alright-god-is-all-and-i-am-god perspective. yay!


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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OfflineTimeleech
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: ]
    #475647 - 12/01/01 04:03 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

>Heh...actually when I said that I was thinking of Highlander
Synchronistic Resonance. (don't destroy the magic now, I don't want to hear it, nananaNANANA!):D


--------------------
--
Eternally boggled, flummoxed, bewildered and surprised.
theophagy.org


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Offlinethe universe
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Re: the beginning is also the end [Re: Timeleech]
    #475657 - 12/01/01 04:16 AM (15 years, 9 months ago)

Dude, you're an asshole. Don't take the "everything-will-be-alright-god-is-all-and-i-am-god" perspective. You're just laying down for the man! Get up and fight! You're earlier posts were inspiriring! Sort of. ;) I don't know, I kind of take that perspective at times too, but it just doesnt' feel right. Why would god give us free will if there wasn't some use for it?


--------------------
"If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'Fuck you' signs in the world."- J. D. Salinger


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GoBlue! 1,483 34 12/02/02 12:17 AM
by GoBlue!
* The Begining
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DailyPot 1,112 24 04/28/03 04:44 PM
by DailyPot

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