fireworks_god said:

OldWoodSpecter said:

you can force yourself to feel almost any emotion by manipulating your thoughts, if thoughts fail, expernal chemicals can force emotions, it's just that unconditional love is not an emotion, so it can not be forced.

---

Personally, I would not think that "manipulation" and "force" are words that describe a mind that is effectively managing itself and its direct perception of reality. I certainly agree that there are mechanisms by which the mind will challenge certain thoughts and introduce new ones to replace them, possibly creating an exchange, almost an "arguement"; however, I don't think it is simply possible that some identity within oneself can exercise dominion over its thoughts and feelings at the wave of its hand. Creating such an internal struggle will seperate one's experience, create a hierachy of self-identity that makes a center in one's state of being impossible, and that will serve as cancer within oneself which will also materialize in one's external circumstances (ever encounter a politician? ).

One doesn't force oneself to let go of negative thought patterns, one doesn't force oneself to not experience a haunting, unsatisfying emotion. An aspect of the mind might try to distract itself and not face the problem, but it is only through fully exploring the problem that one comes to understand the problem, which then opens the door to realization of the mechanics of the problem and why it came into being, which then leads to the possibillity of assimilating this into one's perspective, one's aspects of mind that is responsible for our experience of reality and our decision-making process. No matter how many times I've become aware of various flaws in my mental programming that have seperated myself from a more pure state of awareness and being, it is only from coming to the full realizations that result that I have been able to transcend the problem and reach the intended destination. Or something.


Peace.

---

Quote:

There is nothing infinite or large about it, its just a matter of removing some conditioners. I don't understand why you see it as something unreachable and distant.

---

Ravus said:

Unconditional love seems an impossibility. Love itself is an emotion created in the brain, and there is nothing wrong with speaking of that. But unconditional?

The definition of unconditional says that it has no conditions or limitations, or in other words is absolute. Yet humans are not absolute; we are anything but absolute. All of our emotions are constrained by the limitations of our mind. The way we were developed itself only gives us the area needed for our survival; beyond that nothing is developed.

So unconditional love seems impossible, since humans are limited creatures, and how can a limited creature experience one of their emotions without any limits? It's like trying to contain infinity within a one inch cube.

---

Quote:

What is unconditional love? It is not, "I can love you if you do what my emotional programming--my addictions--says I want you to do." It is just love. Just, "I love you because you are there. I love you because you are part of the nowness of my life. I love you because although our bodies and minds may be on different trips, on the consciousness level all of us are alike in our humanness. We are one."

---

Ravus said:

I didn't say I personally saw no point in it; I'm asking you what your point is. Why do you love everything around you? Doesn't that take away your ability to distinguish that which you should love and that which you should not?

---

Ravus said:

I didn't say I personally saw no point in it; I'm asking you what your point is. Why do you love everything around you? Doesn't that take away your ability to distinguish that which you should love and that which you should not?

---

My point? Well It makes my life more fun, and joyfull, less stressful.
I have preferences.  I make choices. Just because I don't hate the drunk driver, doesn't mean I don't know enough to get out of his way.

Ravus said:

Natural selection would be an excellent master.

For example, loving the taste of cyanide unconditionally would not be good. Loving stable, beautiful women who will provide you with children would be.

---

Ravus said:

Natural selection would be an excellent master.

For example, loving the taste of cyanide unconditionally would not be good. Loving stable, beautiful women who will provide you with children would be.

---

Quote:

unconditional love has nothing to do with survival.
Your techniques for survival are a separate issue. For example, you can unconditionally love someon ewho is attacking you, and defend yourself at the same time, by hitting him on the head rendering him unconscious.

---

OldWoodSpecter said:

Ravus said:

Natural selection would be an excellent master.

For example, loving the taste of cyanide unconditionally would not be good. Loving stable, beautiful women who will provide you with children would be.

---

As humans are no longer affected by natural selection if they stay within the walls of the city, they can chose any master they wish.

---

Ravus said:

I think it does have to do with survival, since maintaining unconditional love when it's unnecessary would probably use extra and needless energy.

---

Ravus said:

After all, many of the famous matyrs of the world are precisely those who held unconditional love, while most of the conquerers were those who were filled with hatred.

---