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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
unconditional love
    #4526115 - 08/12/05 01:24 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

what is it?

should a person force themself to feel it, if they dont?

this post directed at icelander, but it's for everyone else too.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526182 - 08/12/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

It is not something that you feel or experience, it is more abstract, it is a mindset that involves compassion for others without judgement, out of this feelings can be born, but they are more like signs of this love, than love itself.

All you need to do is open yourself for others, this is a decision, there is nothing to be forced, after you decide that you shall try to open yourself and try not to judge.

In my opinion this kind of love is of greater value than love that we all usually feel. The conventional love is selfish, it demands, it ask, it needs, it lusts etc. etc.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineSoulwax
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Re: unconditional love [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4526291 - 08/12/05 02:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Before you can really love someone you'll need unconditional love. In my opinion that's what love is all about. Otherwise you are loving images of persons. But it isn't easy to obtain all the time. Of course no one should be forced unconditional love.


Edited by Soulwax (08/12/05 02:36 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

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Re: unconditional love [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4526292 - 08/12/05 02:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

To me, there is no such thing as conditional love... all love is unconditional, by definition.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526307 - 08/12/05 02:37 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Unconditional love is the acceptance of things as they are, with the knowledge that everyone and everything is an expression of love, no matter what programs are playing on the surface. Everything and everyone, including yourself exactly as you are NOW. Icelander. :heart:
__________________________________________________________


IMO the process is not in "forcing" yourself to feel unconditional love when you do not.  The conditions which we place on our individual experience of Love energy, both giving and receiving, are necessary at the early stages of our spiritual development.  We require conditions/limitations on the flow of Love energy when we are not yet ready to conduct 100% of that energy.

The work of moving into unconditional love, then, is to improve our ability to withstand/conduct Love energy.  This is similar to weight training: you progressively increase the amount of energy you allow yourself to experience, spend some time resting and recovering, and then dive into the flow again, this time with increased capacity!

Part of the conditions we place on loving is the way it will "look" when it comes to us.  We believe it will be in the form of our "dream girl" or "dream guy."  When training as an unconditional lover, you learn to see the expression of love in everyone you interact with.  You open your heart, sometimes just for a moment, to the clerk at the grocery store, the UPS guy delivering to your office, the barista at Starbucks.  These opportunities to give and receive love come along much more frequently than that "perfect" partner, and are more challenging.

Much love to you, dear!  Veritas :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: unconditional love [Re: Seuss]
    #4526333 - 08/12/05 02:42 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
To me, there is no such thing as conditional love... all love is unconditional, by definition.





well I gave you a definition of unconditional love, you say the love that I described is not possible?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526362 - 08/12/05 02:50 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
what is it?




I think the definition is pretty self-explanatory, considering the term itself - the experience of love that is not bound by any conditions or expectations. :wink:

Quote:


should a person force themself to feel it, if they dont?




Perhaps you should first ask yourself, "Can a person"... :grin:

I simply cannot see how one can force themselves to "feel" anything, let alone something as profound as unconditional love. To hold unconditional love for someone else is the byproduct of a set of realizations of the fundamental aspects of reality - if one is aware of the truth of the matter, the manner in which we relate to others and, essentially, our environment, then unconditional love simply comes as a result.

Maybe it is more productive to consider whether or not we should progress on a path that will ultimately lead us to realizations and insight that will open up the experience of unconditional love for others, as it more represents action that we can take with our mind. :wink: I'd definitely think that it would be an enriching step to take! :grin: I think that guiding oneself and one's thoughts in such a manner will open up one's experience of life, one's state of being, to others and more experience, freeing one's consciousness from a list of unnecessary, seperating, negative thought processes and experiences that serve to limit the awareness we hold within ourselves of the present moment and also dampen our ability to direct our life through events and situations.

Keeping in mind, of course, that come towards me with a clear intention to attack me and I'll do whatever I can to lay you out by your throat. :evil: :lol: And yet that contradicts nothing... :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: unconditional love [Re: Seuss]
    #4526393 - 08/12/05 02:55 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
To me, there is no such thing as conditional love... all love is unconditional, by definition.




Love itself could be attributed as being unconditional; however, there is such a concept as that of a mind placing conditions on whether or not one will allow themselves to experience said unconditional love.


:wink: :mushroom2:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: unconditional love [Re: fireworks_god]
    #4526419 - 08/12/05 03:03 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

crunchytoast said:
what is it?




I think the definition is pretty self-explanatory, considering the term itself - the experience of love that is not bound by any conditions or expectations. :wink:

Quote:


should a person force themself to feel it, if they dont?




Perhaps you should first ask yourself, "Can a person"... :grin:

I simply cannot see how one can force themselves to "feel" anything, let alone something as profound as unconditional love. To hold unconditional love for someone else is the byproduct of a set of realizations of the fundamental aspects of reality - if one is aware of the truth of the matter, the manner in which we relate to others and, essentially, our environment, then unconditional love simply comes as a result.

Maybe it is more productive to consider whether or not we should progress on a path that will ultimately lead us to realizations and insight that will open up the experience of unconditional love for others, as it more represents action that we can take with our mind. :wink: I'd definitely think that it would be an enriching step to take! :grin: I think that guiding oneself and one's thoughts in such a manner will open up one's experience of life, one's state of being, to others and more experience, freeing one's consciousness from a list of unnecessary, seperating, negative thought processes and experiences that serve to limit the awareness we hold within ourselves of the present moment and also dampen our ability to direct our life through events and situations.

Keeping in mind, of course, that come towards me with a clear intention to attack me and I'll do whatever I can to lay you out by your throat. :evil: :lol: And yet that contradicts nothing... :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




you can force yourself to feel almost any emotion by manipulating your thoughts, if thoughts fail, expernal chemicals can force emotions, it's just that unconditional love is not an emotion, so it can not be forced.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

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Posts: 24,849
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Re: unconditional love [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4526494 - 08/12/05 03:26 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

OldWoodSpecter said:
you can force yourself to feel almost any emotion by manipulating your thoughts, if thoughts fail, expernal chemicals can force emotions, it's just that unconditional love is not an emotion, so it can not be forced.




Personally, I would not think that "manipulation" and "force" are words that describe a mind that is effectively managing itself and its direct perception of reality. :grin: I certainly agree that there are mechanisms by which the mind will challenge certain thoughts and introduce new ones to replace them, possibly creating an exchange, almost an "arguement"; however, I don't think it is simply possible that some identity within oneself can exercise dominion over its thoughts and feelings at the wave of its hand. Creating such an internal struggle will seperate one's experience, create a hierachy of self-identity that makes a center in one's state of being impossible, and that will serve as cancer within oneself which will also materialize in one's external circumstances (ever encounter a politician? :lol:).

One doesn't force oneself to let go of negative thought patterns, one doesn't force oneself to not experience a haunting, unsatisfying emotion. An aspect of the mind might try to distract itself and not face the problem, but it is only through fully exploring the problem that one comes to understand the problem, which then opens the door to realization of the mechanics of the problem and why it came into being, which then leads to the possibillity of assimilating this into one's perspective, one's aspects of mind that is responsible for our experience of reality and our decision-making process. No matter how many times I've become aware of various flaws in my mental programming that have seperated myself from a more pure state of awareness and being, it is only from coming to the full realizations that result that I have been able to transcend the problem and reach the intended destination. Or something. :lol:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 93,974
Loc: underbelly
Re: unconditional love [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4526542 - 08/12/05 03:39 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

it's just that unconditional love is not an emotion, so it can not be forced.
______________________________________________________

:thumbup: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: unconditional love [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #4526651 - 08/12/05 04:03 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

OldWoodSpecter
it is a mindset
is this mindset wilfully forced, or does it arise naturally?

All you need to do is open yourself for others, this is a decision
what if i don't feel like opening myself for others?  should i do what i don't feel like doing?

Seuss
To me, there is no such thing as conditional love... all love is unconditional, by definition.
deep observation.  yet i would still argue that unconditional love arises out of conditions.  i wouldn't love my brother the way i do, if he weren't my brother.  i think, my love for my brother is conditional in one sense, yet unconditional in another.

Icelander
Unconditional love is the acceptance of things as they are
so like accepting reality, it happens or doesn't as part of a person's life process?

everyone and everything is an expression of love, no matter what programs are playing on the surface
i suspect that you are right with this, but what could i do to find out for sure?

Veritas
IMO the process is not in "forcing" yourself to feel unconditional love when you do not....The work of moving into unconditional love, then, is to improve our ability to withstand/conduct Love energy.
so you're saying unconditional love for you is like a muscle you exercise, but not something forced?  IOW the love itself is not wilful, but cultivating it is?

fireworks_god
Maybe it is more productive to consider whether or not we should progress on a path that will ultimately lead us to realizations and insight that will open up the experience of unconditional love for others
how do i know which path this is?

Keeping in mind, of course, that come towards me with a clear intention to attack me and I'll do whatever I can to lay you out by your throat.
LOL, you always seem to have something like this in your posts to me  :heart:  not to imply i'm innocent...

unnecessary, seperating, negative thought processes and experiences that serve to limit the awareness we hold within ourselves of the present moment and also dampen our ability to direct our life through events and situations
can you give an example of a negative thought process that meets these criteria?  i can't think of one.  the closest i can think of is denial, but i think that's necessary sometimes when someone's scared of the truth, otherwise why would it be there?

Love itself could be attributed as being unconditional; however, there is such a concept as that of a mind placing conditions on whether or not one will allow themselves to experience said unconditional love.
if i love my parents, you know, it's really because i was born to them instead of different parents.  is that really my mind placing conditions on love, or my circumstances placing conditions on love?

OldWoodSpecter
unconditional love is not an emotion, so it can not be forced.
so is it a way of acting?  or perhaps an aspect of being, that simply is present in whatever degree it happens to be?


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


Edited by crunchytoast (08/12/05 04:07 PM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
oppositional

Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526681 - 08/12/05 04:08 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

ps. thank you for all your replies!!  :happyheart:


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleRavus
Not an EggshellWalker
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Registered: 07/18/03
Posts: 7,991
Loc: Cave of the Patriarchs
Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526704 - 08/12/05 04:13 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Unconditional love seems an impossibility. Love itself is an emotion created in the brain, and there is nothing wrong with speaking of that. But unconditional?

The definition of unconditional says that it has no conditions or limitations, or in other words is absolute. Yet humans are not absolute; we are anything but absolute. All of our emotions are constrained by the limitations of our mind. The way we were developed itself only gives us the area needed for our survival; beyond that nothing is developed.

So unconditional love seems impossible, since humans are limited creatures, and how can a limited creature experience one of their emotions without any limits? It's like trying to contain infinity within a one inch cube.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblemoog
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Posts: 1,296
Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526773 - 08/12/05 04:35 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

I'm with Seuss...

"Unconditional love" is redundant. There's no such thing as conditional love. If there are conditions, it was never love to begin with.


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InvisibleRavus
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Re: unconditional love [Re: moog]
    #4526802 - 08/12/05 04:49 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

How so? What is love if not a human emotion? And if love is a human emotion, why would conditions change it?

Even the universe isn't unconditional.


--------------------
So long as you are praised think only that you are not yet on your own path but on that of another.


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Invisiblemoog
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Re: unconditional love [Re: Ravus]
    #4526820 - 08/12/05 04:58 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Well, there are so many different definitions of love, which makes this more like just a semantic debate. What most people call love as an emotion I would just call infatuation. Love (as in unconditional affection), to me, is more a concept than an emotion. It may be felt for a fleeting moment but doesn't last.


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
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Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: unconditional love [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4526937 - 08/12/05 05:30 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

crunchytoast said:
OldWoodSpecter
it is a mindset
is this mindset wilfully forced, or does it arise naturally?

All you need to do is open yourself for others, this is a decision
what if i don't feel like opening myself for others?  should i do what i don't feel like doing?

Seuss
To me, there is no such thing as conditional love... all love is unconditional, by definition.
deep observation.  yet i would still argue that unconditional love arises out of conditions.  i wouldn't love my brother the way i do, if he weren't my brother.  i think, my love for my brother is conditional in one sense, yet unconditional in another.

Icelander
Unconditional love is the acceptance of things as they are
so like accepting reality, it happens or doesn't as part of a person's life process?

everyone and everything is an expression of love, no matter what programs are playing on the surface
i suspect that you are right with this, but what could i do to find out for sure?

Veritas
IMO the process is not in "forcing" yourself to feel unconditional love when you do not....The work of moving into unconditional love, then, is to improve our ability to withstand/conduct Love energy.
so you're saying unconditional love for you is like a muscle you exercise, but not something forced?  IOW the love itself is not wilful, but cultivating it is?

fireworks_god
Maybe it is more productive to consider whether or not we should progress on a path that will ultimately lead us to realizations and insight that will open up the experience of unconditional love for others
how do i know which path this is?

Keeping in mind, of course, that come towards me with a clear intention to attack me and I'll do whatever I can to lay you out by your throat.
LOL, you always seem to have something like this in your posts to me  :heart:  not to imply i'm innocent...

unnecessary, seperating, negative thought processes and experiences that serve to limit the awareness we hold within ourselves of the present moment and also dampen our ability to direct our life through events and situations
can you give an example of a negative thought process that meets these criteria?  i can't think of one.  the closest i can think of is denial, but i think that's necessary sometimes when someone's scared of the truth, otherwise why would it be there?

Love itself could be attributed as being unconditional; however, there is such a concept as that of a mind placing conditions on whether or not one will allow themselves to experience said unconditional love.
if i love my parents, you know, it's really because i was born to them instead of different parents.  is that really my mind placing conditions on love, or my circumstances placing conditions on love?

OldWoodSpecter
unconditional love is not an emotion, so it can not be forced.
so is it a way of acting?  or perhaps an aspect of being, that simply is present in whatever degree it happens to be?




not forced, it is always there for you to find, a way of acting and  thinking, that gives birth to a palette of emotions


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: unconditional love [Re: Ravus]
    #4526943 - 08/12/05 05:32 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
How so? What is love if not a human emotion? And if love is a human emotion, why would conditions change it?

Even the universe isn't unconditional.




not everything humans experience is an emotion. urge for knowledge for example is not an emotion, creativity is also not an emotion, unconditional love falls in the same cathegory as the two


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineOldWoodSpecter
waiting
Male

Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: unconditional love [Re: Ravus]
    #4526950 - 08/12/05 05:33 PM (11 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Ravus said:
Unconditional love seems an impossibility. Love itself is an emotion created in the brain, and there is nothing wrong with speaking of that. But unconditional?

The definition of unconditional says that it has no conditions or limitations, or in other words is absolute. Yet humans are not absolute; we are anything but absolute. All of our emotions are constrained by the limitations of our mind. The way we were developed itself only gives us the area needed for our survival; beyond that nothing is developed.

So unconditional love seems impossible, since humans are limited creatures, and how can a limited creature experience one of their emotions without any limits? It's like trying to contain infinity within a one inch cube.




There is nothing infinite or large about it, its just a matter of removing some conditioners. I don't understand why you see it as something unreachable and distant.


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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