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Ultimate Fighting Championship
    #4505585 -

If you have viewed this sport, you will notice it is all about brute striking power and wrestling/grappling skills. Nowhere is there any evidence whatsoever of any mysterious "chi". It is a test of strength, technique, skill, speed and endurance.

Oh chi - wherefore art thou?


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4505598 -

My husband was watching that all night. I don't get it. Look at my new sig. Maybe that explains it.

Anyway, in your personal opinion, how would Bruce Lee fare in that ring do you think?


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4505631 -

Anyway, in your personal opinion, how would Bruce Lee fare in that ring do you think?

Disregarding the myth of Bruce Lee for the moment, there are fighters of somewhat similar skill and style alive today, yet these skills seem ineffective in the UFC where it looks more like a barroom brawl than a Kung Fu movie.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4505647 -

My husband was watching that all night. I don't get it.

Whether you "get it" or night, females line up in droves for fighters and similar brutal sports (Do me! No, do me!)  and very few for figure skaters or more aesthetic sports. (*Sigh* Racquetball groupies do not exist. :frown:) You do the math.

Remember that women are the predominent choosers for mating and the type of males alive today are the direct result of such selection.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4505707 -

You are naive. I know a man who is a blackbelt in two martial arts. His concept of chi and it's workings are very subtle. I myself practiced Tai Chi along with meditation for 2 years. I was 300lbs then, and I could kick a mark a foot directly over my head. I acheived an unbelievable amount of flexibility, balence, and stamina. A persistant back ache vanished. I practiced one hour a day and meditated for about 30 minutes a day. I wish I had kept it up. Some reading on the matter would inform you that the concept of chi is complex and subtle. My limited experience was impressive.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4505743 -

I saw a ton of women in the audience cheering like crazy people. I commented at my shock and dismay and left the room.

Perhaps 1,000s of years ago it meant something but today, money, not physical brawn equals power as far as women are concerned if they are looking for a powerful man. I can take it further as we live in a relatively civilised society, power may even be percieved in a man from his ability to make friends and influence people or in his level of intelligence or emotional strength.

I watched my sister go from the soft sensitive guy, to the brawny brainless guy, to the intelligent guy, to the rich guy, to now no guy again. I agree power is appealing, though it comes in many forms regarding what can appeal to women. Todays semi-civilised society gives men more options to show off diverse strengths besides brawn that are an advantage or appealing for a woman to hook up with. It's nice to know we can bring home the bacon, call the police if we need a protector and be more selective ourselves.

Difficult for me to be objective about it because my husband could break a face pretty easily if he wanted to and use to do it for Friday night bar brawling fun in his youth. He has matured since:)  He's a brawny fast guy who hates to loose that I wouldn't mess with in a brawl or a court room or anything competitive.

You know how silly I am. The power I percived from him that appealed to me was what he was packing behind a soul connection and the sparkle in his eye. HOLY SHIT, talk about a smack down! I appeal to the power of emotional intensity myself.

Anyhoo

I can't handle watching violence for violence sake myself. I always end up leaving the room.

I could barely stand watching Gladiator with my husband. I close my eyes and have him tell me when the brutal scenes are over.

I get upset over physical brutality for sport. Maybe it has to do with my upbringing. It just seems senseless :shrug:

Got a couch I can lay down on doc? Take out your note pad.

It all started when........................


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4505760 -

I wouldn't worry about the UFC guys. They seem to be gentlemen and good sports all. To inflict and take such a pounding and then shake hands with the guy who was nailing you is very sporting....nothing really brutal about it. Thay are just enjoying the test of skill. You rarely see anger at these events.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4505782 -

Women are only the predominant choosers if the guy is a pussy. Men are the dominanting sex in just about every culture. It's only been in the last 100 years or so that women have been able to choose a lot more then they have because 1. Men are increasingly turning into wusses, and 2. Women have more money/power than they had before.


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Kira: What do Klingons dream about?

Worf: Things that would send cold chills down your spine, and wake you up in the middle of the night. No, it is better you do not know

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4505808 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
I wouldn't worry about the UFC guys. They seem to be gentlemen and good sports all. To inflict and take such a pounding and then shake hands with the guy who was nailing you is very sporting....nothing really brutal about it. Thay are just enjoying the test of skill. You rarely see anger at these events.


Why does that make it worse for me to watch?

I'd be okay if I saw some old woman being attacked and some other dude jumped in to help her and kicked the guys ass. It's two people causing physical harm and pain for no reason I have a hard time with. Like I said, maybe its because I use to get hit by my dad for no reason.

To each his own................... :heart:


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4505823 -

You are naive.
Yes, I am the King of Naivete. Always a good way to start a response.

I know a man who is a blackbelt in two martial arts.
Me too. My kung-fu teacher had degrees in five martial arts however that pertains to this discussion...

His concept of chi and it's workings are very subtle.
OK, and is this discussion about your friend's concepts?

I myself practiced Tai Chi along with meditation for 2 years. I was 300lbs then, and I could kick a mark a foot directly over my head. I acheived an unbelievable amount of flexibility, balence, and stamina. A persistant back ache vanished. I practiced one hour a day and meditated for about 30 minutes a day. I wish I had kept it up.
Admirable. Relevance?

So far there have been zero Tai Chi masters with UFC belts. The winners pump tons of iron, run many miles per week, stretch, drill and spar. Guess that chi training is indistingushable from physical training.

Some reading on the matter would inform you that the concept of chi is complex and subtle.
Now my reading mattter is in question? Care to wager that I have some of the best books on chi available in my personal library?

Chi appears to be so subtle as to unexaminable and unmeasurable. This puts it in the mythical/non-existent category.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #4505830 -

There is a reason...it is a test of skill that the opponents enjoy. They are having...yes it is sick I know....FUN. If it bothers you don't watch it of course, but realize that these guys enjoy it. It is no different from a chess match.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4506073 -

I dunno about any of you, but as long as both parties are willing to kick each other's asses, I trully and wholeheartely enjoy watching a good fight!


:grin:





Somehow, I think that Bruce Lee had the potential to dominate.

I kind of doubt that the fights would last too long...


Surely the fans wouldn't be too thrilled.







...But definately, there are fighters of Lee's calibre out there today...  I can feel it in my bones.  :grin:


Ya don't see too many of them in Ultimate rings, though; those ones likely have nothing to prove...


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Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: ELECTRIC]
    #4506125 -

Ya don't see too many of them in Ultimate rings, though; those ones likely have nothing to prove...

Ah, the "Too Noble" Argument comes in yet again and again and again.

Bruce Lee DID fight in the ring so he must have been a phoney.  :thumbdown:

A fighter trains hard for years to hide his skills in the same way that a master pianist disciplines himself yet fails to perform for an audience. My auto mechanic is so advanced he will not even look under the hood of my car...  :rolleyes:


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The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4506147 -

First, I have to say that this is just my ideas. I haven't experienced chi (that I know of) or studied it at all.

It seems like there's something to it. I don't know if this is an example of chi, but I saw monks go up into freezing cold mountains (on TV), wearing only a robe (forget the name of the garment that monks wear), and stay there all night. They meditated to keep their body temperature up. Any normal person would have died. I also saw a monk do a handstand on his two index fingers.

Aren't those examples of chi? Being able to control your body with extreme proficiency? Maybe some people read spirituality into it, but I consider it building a mind/body connection.

P.S. I realize I may have my own idea of what chi is. Like I said, I'm not well versed on this topic.

P.P.S. Bruce Lee had awesome fighting skills. He would be a top contender in his weight class if he did UFC.


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Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4506151 -

I dunno if you noticed Swami, but I did say Ultimate...



Events such as Kumate [sp] are of different calibre.





Besides, I did place my bets on Lee in Ultimate... did I not?



Maybe your screen has a slight glitch...  Who implied anything about phoney?

I do not believe to have stated that Lee never entered tournament. :rolleyes:


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Nos confido phasmatis occultus in vicis postulo nostrum tutela donatus futurus.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4506155 -

In the end it must be said that one's dealings with such forces are subjective. The results vary from person to person and are psychologically based. Subjective psychological phenomenon can't be measured. So having that approach is pointless. We can agree/disagree all night to no end. This is one of the reasons why psychology is not accepted as hard science. My experience is relevant because the gain seemed large for the effort I expended. I do not need to show a spreadsheet to demonstrate a gain that had a tangible effect on my life. The tangible effect is quite enough for me. As you know I enjoy the study of shamanism which involves innumerable factors that are unmeasureable. Yet these factors influence my actions every day in a useful positive way. That is why I say you are naive. You care about concrete/solid but I care only about results. Reasults are the test of validity. Even with measureable phenomenon data can be manipulted and slanted. Results don't lie.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4506177 -

Huehuecoyotl said:
Results don't lie.


Do you think you got those results in a spiritual kind of way, or by learning how to use your body in a different way?


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Smoking my hobbit leaf...
Please keep in mind that I am just a human being. Please read my posts carefully and interpret their meaning for yourself.

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Swami]
    #4506195 -

How exactly would you measure such a thing?


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4506196 -

So I dominate players in racquetball because I have developed hidden chi without my knowledge? Are my many trophies just an illusion? Where does technique, training, study and chi fit on the hierarchal ladder of importance?

Or does chi only apply to striking with the hand and not with a racquet in the same hand? Does the racquet neutralize the chi?

Either way, I will compete in October in the Senior Olympics in Utah without chi. Perhaps I should cancel now...

Reasults are the test of validity.
Agreed and that is why there are no old chi masters in the ring despite the endless stories and apologies. It is merely an antiquated Eastern term for technique and power.


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The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (08/07/05 03:58 AM)

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Re: Ultimate Fighting Championship [Re: zorbman]
    #4506199 -

How exactly would you measure such a thing?

One athlete can bench press 450 pounds. That is a measurement of his chi.

A certain tennis player can serve 135 mph. That is a measurement of his chi.

Chi = technique * power. There is no mystical extra "something" being added to the equation as Hue and others imply or believe in.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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