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OfflineMJF
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Hallucinogens and Human Evolution
    #4425899 - 07/20/05 12:33 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

A few months ago I started having these vague intuitive thoughts that hallucinogens have actually played a major role in the evoltuion of human beings. Could hallucinogens played a role in evolving us from apes into humans, actually changing our conciousness and improving our language capabilities? I've recently discovered that this is a theory held by some scientists. Does anyone know more about this? Or what do you think about this idea? :mushroom2:


Edited by MJF (07/20/05 12:43 AM)


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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4425962 - 07/20/05 12:49 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

imo evolution is like this retrospective way of describing historic process specifically with genes. when it comes to the role of mushrooms in this i'm sure they played a role, but a defining one? it's pretty speculative.

but people use evolution to mean any kind of historic process or growth, or increase in complexity. since hallucinogens are part of our culture and the historic process we're in, i would say they are part of our evolution.


--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4425996 - 07/20/05 12:56 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

theres no way we can really tell.. personally, i think that hallucinogens played a big role in shaping humananity. even in the past 500 years, they have played a major role in our thinking. the great awakening was caused by an outbreak in ergot, which is whhat LSD is synthesized from.


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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Invisiblemoog
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4426061 - 07/20/05 01:10 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

It's possible, but there are other pathways to higher consciousness than through psychotropic substances.....


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: moog]
    #4426104 - 07/20/05 01:18 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

meditation?


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4426114 - 07/20/05 01:19 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Evolution takes place on the genetic level. Hallucinogens do not affect DNA.

End of story.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4426158 - 07/20/05 01:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
Evolution takes place on the genetic level. Hallucinogens do not affect DNA.

End of story.




they don't not effect DNA.. but they do effect the conscious thought. the conscious thought is why we are not monkeys anymore...


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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Offlinecrunchytoast
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4426192 - 07/20/05 01:39 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

i thought the theory was something like, early humans were willing to eat the mushrooms and the neanderthals werent
mushroom-eating gave the humans an evolutionary advantage
and they passed on more of their genes

for mushrooms to play a role in evolution, they would not have to affect individual genes, only the composition of gene pool


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"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4426213 - 07/20/05 01:47 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

only the composition of gene pool

Which has nothing to do with language else sharks would be talking.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: crunchytoast]
    #4426230 - 07/20/05 01:50 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

when cavemen ate acute quantities of mushrooms their site was better so they could hunt better...also the mushrooms helped develop language.
if mushroom eaters...are surviving better because of whatever it does to their brain...why can't the brain start doing it on its own?
in evolution...i think the environment and things like mushrooms can affect DNA....it just takes a really freaking long time.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4426266 - 07/20/05 02:02 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

when cavemen ate acute quantities of mushrooms their site was better so they could hunt better
How many here have gone hunting whilst tripping? Show of hands please!

also the mushrooms helped develop language.
Evidence? On what would you base this?

i think ... things like mushrooms can affect DNA
Please post a copy of your PhD in microbiology or give sources or basis.


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4426280 - 07/20/05 02:08 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Everything you experience will indirectly influence DNA.
Real end of story.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #4426295 - 07/20/05 02:12 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Once again, what is your source? Because you said so? Lamarckism was discredited 150 years ago.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4426297 - 07/20/05 02:12 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
when cavemen ate acute quantities of mushrooms their site was better so they could hunt better
How many here have gone hunting whilst tripping? Show of hands please!

also the mushrooms helped develop language.
Evidence? On what would you base this?

i think ... things like mushrooms can affect DNA
Please post a copy of your PhD in microbiology or give sources or basis.




Dude...I'm not claiming that any of these things are true. I don't think cavemen went hunting while tripping their balls off...I did say "acute" amounts of mushrooms. Also on the language thing...while they were tripping they could have been having auditory hallucinations and they themselves probably made weird sounds and they eventually started associating specefic sounds to certain things. Like...while tripping they were in awe of something and they heard some noise and tried to recreate it and eventually they started calling it that. i don't know i'm just making shit up...but i think the theory is interesting.


Edited by MJF (07/20/05 02:16 AM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4426313 - 07/20/05 02:17 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Come on swami, your experiences play a main role in partnership and child-bearing, or even just survival itself.
So they do play a main (indirecte) role on DNA.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
........................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4426319 - 07/20/05 02:19 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

I assume you've read Food of the Gods by Terence Mckenna?


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #4426326 - 07/20/05 02:20 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
I assume you've read Food of the Gods by Terence Mckenna?




No I haven't....yet. I actually just found out about it earlier today. Have you read it? If so, what did you think?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: MJF]
    #4426334 - 07/20/05 02:23 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

The word "acute" does not apply to amount. But then again I thought you wrote that mushroom use increases one's ability to utilize language...

So you just make stuff up with zero basis because it sounds cool ? Do you understand that a theory, while being an incomplete picture, still needs SOME groundwork?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblespud
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4426347 - 07/20/05 02:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Swami, just out of curiosity, what's your take on Food of the Gods, and the assumptions made within.


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OfflineMJF
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Re: Hallucinogens and Human Evolution [Re: Swami]
    #4426350 - 07/20/05 02:28 AM (11 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The word "acute" does not apply to amount. But then again I thought you wrote that mushroom use increases one's ability to utilize language...

So you just make stuff up with zero basis because it sounds cool ? Do you understand that a theory, while being an incomplete picture, still needs SOME groundwork?




Acute cannot apply to amount? Are you sure about that? (edited: you're probably right on that...my grammar sucks)
I'll admit that I am incapable of forming a good theory. But what is wrong in discussing and formulating ideas? How do you think theories come about? And also...what is wrong with doing this for just entertianment purposes?


Edited by MJF (07/20/05 02:33 AM)


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