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OfflinePlok
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The DMT experience
    #4317812 - 06/20/05 06:47 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

For those of you who have tried DMT (I have not)...

If you had an alien or spirit being encounter while on DMT, how convinced were you while high that this was a real experience, and not a hallucination? How "real" did it feel? Are you still convinced that it is real? Do you still believe that you had an alien or spirit being encounter?

Did you smoke it or drink Ayahuasca?

For those of you that have not read "DMT: The Spirit Molecule," READ IT. That is probably the most important book I have ever read. I am looking forward to trying Ayahuasca soon, as soon as I can get a sitter.


--------------------
Just say NO to the War on Drugs.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Plok]
    #4318934 - 06/21/05 12:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Extensive experience with Ayahuasca has taught me that the experiences are hallucinations. The doses I took were, at the high end, calculated to be nearly 3 times the potency of a typical rain forest dose. Ayahuasca is virtually indistinguishable from mushroom experiences qualitatively (except more pronounced auditory hallucinations). It does cause extreme diarrhea and vomiting. Smoked DMT is more intense, but very short. It too is a hallucinatory experience. Any book that is telling you that these experience have objective reality is spreading misinformation and obscuring the real point. The spiritual nature of these experiences is not all "eye candy", but goes deeper.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlineheadset
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4319174 - 06/21/05 01:17 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

whats the depth indicate to you huehuecoyotl?


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Invisibleninjapixie
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Plok]
    #4319239 - 06/21/05 01:32 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I've seen what could be interpreted as aliens or some sort of sentient beings on smoked dmt. They tend to take on different forms whenever I smoke it as I haven't seen them take on the same form twice. It's like these spirits suddenely come out of hiding, whether they be hiding on my bedroom floor or the curtains.

While high it feels just as real as my normal state of consciousness. I'm not convinced they really are real though. Don't really know how to explain it, I just enjoy it for what it is- mind blowing.

I actually think salvia has more to teach and feels more real then dmt. Nowhere near as enjoyable though, but there's something about the magic of sally that tells me there's something deeper going on. Perhaps it's because it's so much darker then dmt which is more like glorious eye candy. Sally tears my world to shreds.


--------------------
Put that monkey back in the oven.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4319810 - 06/21/05 09:05 AM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Extensive experience with Ayahuasca has taught me that the experiences are hallucinations. The doses I took were, at the high end, calculated to be nearly 3 times the potency of a typical rain forest dose. Ayahuasca is virtually indistinguishable from mushroom experiences qualitatively (except more pronounced auditory hallucinations). It does cause extreme diarrhea and vomiting. Smoked DMT is more intense, but very short. It too is a hallucinatory experience. Any book that is telling you that these experience have objective reality is spreading misinformation and obscuring the real point. The spiritual nature of these experiences is not all "eye candy", but goes deeper.




While I have limited experience with Ayahuasca, I have delved many times into DMT. I agree Hue that this is very much like the high dose shroom trip.

The interesting thing is that many people see the same motif on the same plant source. How do you explain this Hue?  You seemed to claim in another thread that the book Wizard of the Upper Amazon was a fiction. How did you come to this conclusion?

My experiences on salvia,DMT, and shrooms and LSD, were all pretty much the same as far as hallucinations and spiritual effects, although I did note subtle differences. So Hue I take it that you think there is a valid point to using these substances. In your view, what would that be?

I haven't made up my mind as to what is possible or not with these plants. I have a theory that is developing but would like some more input from other experienced psychonauts such as yourself. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinetrouted
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4320538 - 06/21/05 02:01 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Hue: I'm curious as to why you have come to this conclusion.

Anyone interested in these matters may find Rick Strassman's book, "DMT: The Spirit Molecule" interesting.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4321169 - 06/21/05 04:55 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"You seemed to claim in another thread that the book Wizard of the Upper Amazon was a fiction."

The author admitted that it was a semi-fictional account by disclosing that he was never kidnapped by Indians. Cordova Rios was quite familiar with Amazonian shamanism though. That does not totally discredit it...and I am not trying to discredit it. To give a source right off...I first read this in "Pharmacotheon" by Jonathan Ott...which is an outstanding work. Mr. Lamb also gave attributes to ayahuasca that I know, after many, many experiences to be inaccurate.

"The interesting thing is that many people see the same motif on the same plant source."

This is very easy to explain. Similar drugs have similar effects on all people...it is also hard to ignore the ethnic origins of an entheogen on a psychological basis. For instance, when I have done peyote I have American Indian style patterns and motifs. On ayahuasca I see jungle imagery. I would be curious to see how a person would experience ayahuasca with no knowledge of it's origin....it would probably be a lot like an acid trip, except for the intestinal effects. My experiences are heavily psychologically influenced by the fact that I have visited the environments represented by these entheogens origins. Books such as Casteneda's and Cordova Rios' provide these types of associations as well.

"So Hue I take it that you think there is a valid point to using these substances. In your view, what would that be?"

Yes...the spiritual use derives from the core feelings generated...the "peak" experience. The visuals are nice, but to attach too much importance to them is like shunning substance for eye candy. The experience is a whole experience...not just a visual one. They put me in touch with my divine nature....which is my way of saying that words cannot describe it...I am not really interested in exploring the notion of DMT elves except as aspects of my own self. For what it is worth, I have well over 500 entheogenic experiences. I have maxxed out (hit the practical limit....don't get any higher...and there IS a limit) doses for LSD, mescaline, ayahuasca, shrooms,and I have smoked DMT and salvorin-A on several (maybe 25) occasions. I do not think my word is the last, of course, but I have a damn good notion of what these entheogens are capable of. Lately though (last 3 years), I find that less frequently...like once a year...is better...under perfect conditions. Too me, a shamanic lifestyle is not about staying polluted, but being in touch with the spirit of nature and ones self. It is worth noting that I do NOT consider exploring alternate states of conciousness shamanism, but instead, alternate states of conciousness are tools for shamanism. It is worth noting also that I have engaged in the exploration of alternate states of conciousness and it is great fun.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/21/05 05:17 PM)


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: trouted]
    #4321182 - 06/21/05 04:58 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"Hue: I'm curious as to why you have come to this conclusion"

No mystery here...years of experiece.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: headset]
    #4321189 - 06/21/05 04:59 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"whats the depth indicate to you huehuecoyotl?"

Words cannot convey this.


Edited by Huehuecoyotl (06/21/05 05:20 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4321253 - 06/21/05 05:22 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

"They put me in touch with my divine nature....which is my way of saying that words cannot describe it"

I can agree here, and to the fact that psychedelics are only a tool. One of the very best IMO.

I find many of my high dose experiences drop me into subconscious realms of myself. Like dreaming, my object is to become lucid and then awaken fully to the total self. This is my understanding of the path I have chosen. For now. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4321262 - 06/21/05 05:23 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

To become lucid in the waking dream of our everyday lives is the true accomplishment ...this eludes me still.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Plok]
    #4321293 - 06/21/05 05:37 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

How can the objectivity of this experience be determined by subjective judgement?


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #4321939 - 06/21/05 08:30 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
To become lucid in the waking dream of our everyday lives is the true accomplishment ...this eludes me still.




It eludes me also. Yet in brief moments I can feel it. If you believe it, then what is more important than the attempt to realize it. Anyone who takes it on as a task has found a challenge worthy of his time. Life is no longer a losing game, or boring, or empty. It just is, and like Don Jaun says, one is left "looking, looking breathlessly." I believe you know as I do that this earth is alive to its very recesses, and a path with heart is to find oneself in love with this earth and all its forms. Not the easiest thing to do in this day and age. Anyway that's my hit on it at this time. Thanks for sharing your experiences with these amazing plants and chemicals. :mushroom2: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The DMT experience [Re: Icelander]
    #4322242 - 06/21/05 09:33 PM (11 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with huehuecoyotl that all the entheogens are pretty simmilar in effect notwithstanding the total relative dosage and the onset and diminishing ramps.

so that smoked DMT and salvia ramp fast but produce the same kind of turned on mentation that slower ramping vectors as orally consumed trypts produce.

================

I understand also that yearning for lucidity at any or all times.
who wouldn't.
This can be replaced effectively with intimacy.

lucidity or "rightness" can take you off the path, a sustainable intimacy can keep you on the path, it is more accepting and may be lucidity beneath a cloak of appreciating "just what is".


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