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OfflineChonger
Olive grower

Registered: 09/30/00
Posts: 551
Loc: England
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Nothing and infinity
    #400202 - 09/21/01 06:29 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I'm trying to figure out the meaning of the words infinity and nothing, in terms of all existence, and whether or not we have simply created this stupid problem ourselves through words and language.

Help me out



and i couldn't awake from the nightmare that sucked me in and pulled me under
pulled me under
oh... that was so real


--------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy


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Anonymous

Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: Chonger]
    #400409 - 09/21/01 11:45 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Draw a yin-yang.
Now draw an arrow on each side, counter-clockwise.
Now look at it.

Behold! Nothing and infinity



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Anonymous

Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: ]
    #400416 - 09/21/01 11:50 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Oh shit aren't I the fucking moron.

On the right side of the yin-yang, draw a downward arrow, curving with the yin-yang. On the left side, draw an upwards arrow, also curving with it.

BEHOLD!!! INIFINITY AND NOTHINGNESS!



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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 1,965
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: Chonger]
    #400440 - 09/22/01 12:22 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

I beleive the problem with understanding nothing and infinity lies in the fact that they are assigned as a word.

{Sporeman ripped me off}
For supplies: Dr Bluethumb
For spores: FSR


--------------------
Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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InvisibleKid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 2,365
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #400537 - 09/22/01 02:32 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

but what do the words signify? or the characters (numbers) used to represent such things?



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OfflineChonger
Olive grower

Registered: 09/30/00
Posts: 551
Loc: England
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #400698 - 09/22/01 11:41 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

yeah thats what i'm thinking too.
Some things are totally misrepresented by words i think.

and i couldn't awake from the nightmare that sucked me in and pulled me under
pulled me under
oh... that was so real


--------------------
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than have a frontal lobotomy


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OfflineCACA
veteran
Registered: 07/12/01
Posts: 1,122
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: Kid]
    #400702 - 09/22/01 11:49 AM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, that is true in some cases where words change over time and it is the same in this case. Thinking/knowing that something/an idea exists is separate from experiencing it. That is why you feel like words does not do justice to certain experiences sometimes and in this case, why the words are JUST words. Then again, the words are just words and then they ARE words meant to describe. Do what you want. Nothing and infinity?

:frown: Time for a cigarette.


--------------------
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing." John 15:5


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Offlinejonnyshaggs420
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 08/09/00
Posts: 1,965
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 11 years, 4 months
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: CACA]
    #400722 - 09/22/01 12:31 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

Its like I always say, by defining something you limit it. By defining "nothing" with the word "nothing" you make it something, which ruins the whole concept of "nothing". I think its the same thing with "infinity".

{Sporeman ripped me off}
For supplies: Dr Bluethumb
For spores: FSR


--------------------
Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice


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InvisibleIshmael
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/99
Posts: 224
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: jonnyshaggs420]
    #400851 - 09/22/01 03:38 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

The pychologist Alan Watts says much about almost this exact topic in several of his Books (Pychotherapy East and West and The Book, if I remember correctly). Basically he agrees with you (or you with him), that the languages we subsist on were not created in the context of our current social, mental and ecological worlds. Words such as infinity and nothingness or void, when understood one way, are exact opposites, but when understood another way, exactly the same. This gave rise to Dr. Watt's fondness for using the ancient egyptian word 'Ken' which means both strong and weak at thes same time. There are other words of this nature, which seemingly contain their own contradiction. One of them is 'Mu' which is Japanese (I believe) for an answer to a question which was asked in a yes-no tense but to which neither yes nor no is the correct answer. Examples to these questions could be: Is there a god? Is the Universe Infinite? Is there any right way to eat apple pie?
In each case, a 'Mu' answer essentially says: Ask the question a different way and expand the scope of it.

What I think this illustrates is that our current problem with language isn't so much with /language/ but with our strict adherence to its forms and principles. If a new language could be invented (which Alan Watts believed was possible and neccesary) that could describe the current human socio-mental state more precisely, then it would answer as many essential questions to being as it would expand our vocabulary of questions (when I hear people drone on about higher-levels-of consciousness, this is most often what I feel they're trying to say). Creating a new language is answering 'Mu' to all of the essential old philosophical questions that have wracked the brains of those who have tried to answer them. If you feel your being hampered by language, write yourself a new one. Just don't expect anyone else to use it unless you make it /damn/ easy to utilize.

Ish



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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
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Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,304
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: Ishmael]
    #402012 - 09/23/01 09:42 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

if you point your finger at the moon, don't mistake the finger for the moon

There is a story by Rumi where a drunk is searching the ground under a street lamp. A friend gets there and asks him what he is doing. The drunk slurs, "I'm looking for my key." The friend helps him search every where. Half an hour later they still have not found the key. The friend asks, "Are you sure you lost it here?" "No," replies the drunk, "I lost it inside my house." "Then why are you looking here?" "Because the light is here."





--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


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InvisibleIshmael
enthusiast

Registered: 10/29/99
Posts: 224
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: CosmicJoke]
    #402467 - 09/24/01 12:39 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

And don't be so quick to disregard language as a major contributing factor to misunderstanding. Everyone agrees that linguistic differences often breed conflict simply because the levels of implied meaning contained in the combonations of phrases and words are based not only upon he who is speaking them, but also he who is hearing them. Why should we expect language, whos sole purpose seems to have been for utilitarian exchanges, to /not/ breed confusion when dealing with esoteric concecepts, ideas and ideologies for which is was not expressly constructed. For ideas that may not have even been understood at all during the time of its conception. Now, true, language evolves all the time, but exceedingly slowly. Far slower than the realm of ideas, theories and concepts.

Think about quantum physics, no one has a problem with the jargon associated with the field because they understand that it is neccesary - the field is literally describing /new/ things in /new/ ways. I think that perhaps if there is ever a time when Philosophy meets Science once again, it will have to have some sort of common descriptive base - a unifying language - so that the confusion that causes current scientific schools to fragment and departmentalize is avoided.

Sometimes you believe you've lost something, especially while drunk, and you've only just managed not to feel it in your pants pocket beneath your handkerchief and wallet.

Ish



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Anonymous

Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: Ishmael]
    #402603 - 09/24/01 03:41 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

This is why I say draw a yin-yang with arrows on either side going counter-clockwise. This is the symbol for nothingness and infinity.
Words cannot convey the meaning that a simple picture can



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InvisibleCosmicJokeM
happy mutant
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/06/00
Posts: 10,304
Loc: Portland, OR
Re: Nothing and infinity [Re: Ishmael]
    #402828 - 09/24/01 06:58 PM (15 years, 4 months ago)

abracadabra

language can be considered as magic
linguistic magicians speak their Heart Songs
story tellers weave yarns like cats cradle
while orbs create eyes in triangles

a phony and his chronies live in larynx jails
right-hand man is a mind without a body
obnoxiously stupid, boring, and redundant at best or deathly miserable at worse
dream on dreamer, dream reality as magicians watch Reality dream out of the orb's center

transmitter static
desire obscured by control op. receiver, interpreter of gorilla cries
command and conquer, secure tomorrow's safety and power
futile instinct control bound to time=reason=language lines

if homunculus is audible to itself
then there's static, misunderstanding inevitable
if homunculus remains inaudible to itself
static is set to clarity

mandala center of desire and time square
here language is no tool
now is nothing to understand but infinity
language is magic

Edited by CosmicJoke on 09/24/01 08:42 PM.



--------------------
Everything is better than it was the last time.  I'm good.

If we could look into each others hearts, and understand the unique challenges each of us faces, I think we would treat each other much more gently, with more love, patience, tolerance, and care.

It takes a lot of courage to go out there and radiate your essence.

I know you scared, you should ask us if we scared too.  If you was there, and we just knew you cared too.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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