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justAkid
Member of myCulture


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Nothing is greater than infinity
#7731502 - 12/08/07 12:41 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nothing is greater than infinity, Nothing is more perfect than perfection.
Before everything, before matter, before time, before heaven and hell or angels and demons there was only God. And God, all alone, was perfect. The universe was completely perfect.
Then one day God asked himself, "What can I create to make this Universe more perfect?" Upon realizing the stupidity of his question he saw the he had tainted his perfection by even pondering this impossibility.
So God put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger, and the Universe was perfect once again.
-------------------- Trust thyself.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7731542 - 12/08/07 12:53 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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to sit in silence (meditation?) and believe that all is fine --will cause a wake up call after dis-ease that one could have avoided
perfection is perfect? sure, and worse is worse
no god, only us. we are not perfect by a long shot, short shot or gun shot
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7731648 - 12/08/07 01:31 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
one day God asked himself, "What can I create to make this Universe more perfect?" Upon realizing the stupidity of his question he saw the he had tainted his perfection by even pondering this impossibility.
best thread ever. or at least tonight.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
Edited by kotik (12/08/07 01:32 AM)
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: kotik]
#7731718 - 12/08/07 02:03 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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If infinity exists, we are infinite. I dont feel so great though. Do you have to realize infinity to become infinite? Is the power of our awareness enough to actually limit reality? It certainly seems like it: I believe I am one limited and seperate being, and so I am one. Id say practical realization of infinity is greatest, otherwise, your just plain old you and Im plain old me.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7732259 - 12/08/07 08:42 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
justAkid said: Nothing is greater than infinity, Nothing is more perfect than perfection.
Before everything, before matter, before time, before heaven and hell or angels and demons there was only God. And God, all alone, was perfect. The universe was completely perfect.
Then one day God asked himself, "What can I create to make this Universe more perfect?" Upon realizing the stupidity of his question he saw the he had tainted his perfection by even pondering this impossibility.
So God put a gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger, and the Universe was perfect once again.
Gee, what fun. The P&S reaches continual new heights in posting.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dsquaredccubed
age askyew
Registered: 12/08/07
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7732272 - 12/08/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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see eye wood say nothing exists without origin
-------------------- cuwn1cu "You, Lynard Skinnard-hat and Me, little kitty Sat across with a velvet jacket Wild orange hair and dark, dark eyes I gawked like a twelve-year-old - smitten Carla the stripper, straight from L.A. You seem cool for a naked chick in a booth Let's be pals some day In other words,..
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7735997 - 12/09/07 10:26 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nothing is greater than infinity
Actually, in the mathematics of Set Theory, it is possible to have a set containing infinitely many members, and another LARGER set also containing even more members!
It turns out that there are more Irrational Numbers (like Pi and the square root of 2) than there are Rational Numbers (like 1.5, 7.436, 1.99), even though there are infinitely many of both.
Weird, but true.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7736010 - 12/09/07 10:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nothing is greater than infinity
Double infinity is...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate



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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Diploid]
#7736088 - 12/09/07 10:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why is the square root of 2 an irrational number?
edit: come to think of it, why is Pi an irrational number?
I've never been much good at math...
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Lion]
#7736101 - 12/09/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
bug said: Why is the square root of 2 an irrational number?
edit: come to think of it, why is Pi an irrational number?
I've never been much good at math...
An irrational number is any number which cannot be expressed as a ratio of two whole numbers. Interestingly, the Pythagoreans in ancient Greece were scared of irrational numbers, and actually kept the square root of 2 as a closely guarded secret.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Lion]
#7736116 - 12/09/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why is the square root of 2 an irrational number?
Because it can't be written as a fraction and in decimal form it never repeats or terminates. Square root of 2 is written starting like this:
1.414213562373730950488016887242097... and so on never repeating or terminating.
Pi start like this: 3.1415926... and so on never repeating or terminating.
Rational numbers, like 1/3, can be written as .33333333333 repeating. If it repeats or terminates, it can be expressed as a fraction and is Rational.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7736121 - 12/09/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Nothing is greater than infinity,
What about the size of my ego?
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TheCow
Stranger

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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Diploid]
#7736274 - 12/09/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Nothing is greater than infinity
Actually, in the mathematics of Set Theory, it is possible to have a set containing infinitely many members, and another LARGER set also containing even more members!
It turns out that there are more Irrational Numbers (like Pi and the square root of 2) than there are Real Numbers (like 1.5, 7.436, 1.99), even though there are infinitely many of both.
Weird, but true.
Yes this is correct, except for one problem which I assume was just a typo. There are more irrational numbers than rational numbers. The Real numbers are an uncountable set and are the disjoint union of the rationals and irrationals. Good ol Cantor gave us his cardinalities of infinity where he has varying degrees of infinity with I believe the lowest level being the countable infinite set of rational numbers.
As far as the square root of 2 you can prove it just by using a proof by contradiction. I dont remember the proof and am too lazy to look it up but Im sure a simple google or wikipedia search will explode you an answer
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Numbers rely on context, which we as subjective beings necessarily create.
1,2,3,4... are numbers, but in reality they are necessarily 1/1, 2/1, 3/1, 4/1, because it the numbers apply to individuals of a set.
In the same sense, a half of a pizza, or a quarter of a mile, are in actuality wholes themselves as well. Its a whole half a pizza, or an entire quarter of a mile.
Numbers are entirely contextual
All this double, triple, infinity infinity arises out of the idea that it is "constantly expanding". In actuality, infinity is not expanding, it just exists. our consciousness can only grasp it in this way because we are bounded by time, creating the illusion that infinity is actually growing. We cannot contextualize it.
In relation to infinity, all contextual numbers are meaningless. Double, triple or infinity times infinity is just the same as saying super duper anti-inflammatory infinity.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: daytripper23]
#7736356 - 12/09/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Psssssst. They were kidding dude.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Icelander]
#7736364 - 12/09/07 12:12 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nah, me and diploid have a past with this one
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justAkid
Member of myCulture


Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 323
Loc: The Present
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Diploid]
#7738827 - 12/09/07 11:34 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alright Mister Smarty Pants. I guess the infinity I'm talking about is the greatest infinity.
Why would infinity of one set not include all rational or irrational numbers of the second set?
Why would they deem the first set infinite if it did not include all numbers or "members"?
It wouldn't be infinite. Sounds like a finite set.
Maybe I'm just being too rational. I should know by now the world doesn't work that way.
But that wasn't really the point of my post, just kind of an introduction to help relate that point to the fact that the perfection of God cannot be exceeded by anything.
And if that was so God would not possibly even consider creating anything.
Why would he ever do anything to try to exceed perfection (which is impossible)?
If there is a God, a perfect God, this must not exist.
-------------------- Trust thyself.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: daytripper23]
#7739270 - 12/10/07 05:20 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> Numbers rely on context, which we as subjective beings necessarily create.
I disagree, to a large extent. Granted, everything within our reality depends upon context. However, numbers can define each other through their identity properties, thus numbers only rely on other numbers to provide context.
> In actuality, infinity is not expanding, it just exists.
In mathematics, it is almost always a concept, not a thing and not a number. Thinking of infinity as a thing that exists is one of the primary difficulties people have understanding higher mathematics. (There are some really wacked out areas of math that treat infinity as a number.)
> In relation to infinity, all contextual numbers are meaningless.
I don't follow what you mean by this?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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daytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: Seuss]
#7739285 - 12/10/07 05:36 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I disagree, to a large extent. Granted, everything within our reality depends upon context. However, numbers can define each other through their identity properties, thus numbers only rely on other numbers to provide context.
Can you further explain what you mean by defining each other by their identity properties, maybe by example? Im not sure what you mean by this. From my understanding, numbers in themselves are completely abstract, and so cant be used to define themselves in any way.
The basic case I was trying to make though, is that numbers are meaningless in relation to infinity.
1/infinity is the same as 99/infinity. The only function that numbers might serve is completly lost in this relation, unless you rely on time...
For example... you might argue that 2x infinity is more than infinity, because where ever infinity is (in time), 2x infinity is twice as far/much; as if single infinity must play "catch up". But this rests on the idea that infinity is expanding through time, which isnt necessarily the case.
Catch my drift?
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Nothing is greater than infinity [Re: justAkid]
#7739763 - 12/10/07 09:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Why would they deem the first set infinite if it did not include all numbers or "members"?
Because we're not talking about the set of All Numbers.
Consider the set of all Positive Whole Numbers and the set of all Negative Whole Numbers. Neither set contains any elements of the other, and neither contains the number 2.5 which isn't a Whole Number, even though both contain infinitely many members.
In this thread, we're talking about the set of all Rational Numbers, and the set of all Irrational Numbers. Neither of those contains all possible elements even though both of them contain infinitely many elements.
Why would infinity of one set not include all rational or irrational numbers of the second set?
Because of Cantor's Diagonal Proof. Cantor figured out a way to map each element of the set of Rational Numbers to exactly one element in the set of Irrational Numbers. When he was done, there were Irrational Numbers left over that didn't have a partner in the set of Rational Numbers.
That means the set of Irrationals is a bigger infinity than the set of Rationals. These same-sized infinites are said to posses the same Cardinality; they have the same Aleph number.
This has been understood for over a hundred years.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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