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InvisibleDark_Star
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Registered: 08/21/04
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Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation.
    #3950704 - 03/21/05 09:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I was surprised that this topic hasn't been brought up here, so here goes....I'm kind of hesitant to add to the furor surronding this poor woman, but I'm curious about your views on it, and the reasons behind these views. I believe it's bullshit, first off it's none of the governments business....and this case has been beaten beyond death in the court systems over the past 15 years. Second of all, they have more important things to do, such as working on the budget. The same goes for the steroid investigations, they have no place, and are a waste of Congress's time. Well, that's my opinion, what's yours?


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InvisibleDieCommie
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3950734 - 03/21/05 09:40 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldnt starve my dog to death.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: DieCommie]
    #3950754 - 03/21/05 09:48 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Neither would I, but I have to agree with Darkstar on this -- it's not the business of the Feds. This is an issue for the courts of the state of residence of the actors involved. Even the Supremes -- for once -- did the right thing and refused to hear this case, sending it back down to the lower courts.



Phred


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: DieCommie]
    #3950818 - 03/21/05 10:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, as bad it sounds, she won't feel any pain whatsoever....however, in cases like this, I think euthanasia is the way to go, even though the starvation is painless, a lethal dose of morphine is definately preferable. Unfortunately this isn't possible....given our governments interferances in our personal matters.  :nonono: :thumbdown:


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OfflineCyber
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3950826 - 03/21/05 10:04 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There is so much that congress waists time and money one. Making and passing laws that they really have no power to do.

Try this, Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution outlines the duties of congress as follows

Quote:


The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.





I don't see a line that states that congress can tell the federal courts what cases to hear!


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OfflineJesusChrist
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Cyber]
    #3950923 - 03/21/05 10:31 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It should be a Florida issue.

If I had to die I would want to try heroin and ride strong into the night. That starving crap is bullshit.


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Tastes just like chicken


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3950975 - 03/21/05 10:45 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



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It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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Offlinephi1618
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: JesusChrist]
    #3951008 - 03/21/05 10:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't matter how she dies, her head is full of water anyway - she literally has almost no brain left.

They should've buried her a long time ago.




Plus, I agree with the stuff about congress minding its own business.


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OfflineDongTrungHaThao
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: phi1618]
    #3951349 - 03/21/05 11:52 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

She may have a head full of water, but curiously a brain may not be necessary:

http://www.alternativescience.com/no_brainer.htm

http://www.science-frontiers.com/sf015/sf015p14.htm

The moral crisis of euthanasia is that people foolishly subscribe to the illogical idea that the inevitable moment of death is somehow a right, which only sets the stage for it becoming a duty.

Terri is not in a persistent vegetative coma if the posts at www.Rense.com are to be believed. There has been no efforts at rehabilitation, nor "range of motion" exercises which are part of the normal care for coma patients ~ apparently because her "husband" doesn't want it done and would prefer her dead. What would be his fate if she were to recover and speak? She tries to speak now!

Were he an honorable man he would divorce her, ah, but for the money, and the loss of control of a persistent threat to his freedom.

We shouldn't be so eager to see people die: as Gandalf counseled Frodo when he wished that Gollum had been killed "Do not be so quick to deal out judgment and death. Many who die deserve to live and many who live deserve to die, can you be the one to give it to them Frodo?"

I for one prefer Dr Frankenstein to Dr Kevorkian.

Dong Trung Ha Thao


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 27,983
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: DongTrungHaThao]
    #3951451 - 03/22/05 12:05 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

The people at Rense are full of shit, she's not going to get better.....and according to her husband, she didn't want to be kept alive in situations such as the one she is now in. Of course he may be full of shit as well, but.....she is not truly living, and even if she recovers, she'll never be what she once was. I for one would prefer death, and I'd be very pissed if I was kept alive. She deserves to die, death being something positive, an inevitable conclusion. Death would release her, allow her to continue on to whatever is next....I think she deserves this, and I feel that it is past time she is granted it. I find it amusing as well as disturbing that christians, who claim to believe in Heaven, and claim to believe that Jesus saved them are so afraid of death, and seem to view it as an evil, something to be avoided at all costs. You would think they would view joining God in Heaven as a good thing, but instead they fear it. This points to deeply flawed faith & beliefs. Anyway, the true lesson in all of this is the importance of living wills, although I think that her parents would still be fighting even if she had one. Some people see only what they want to see, and can't let go. I think her parents are being selfish.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Registered: 09/24/04
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3951492 - 03/22/05 12:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Let the woman die for fuck sake.


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Invisiblesir tripsalot
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: DNKYD]
    #3952039 - 03/22/05 02:27 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Too bad the guy can't prove her wishes to die, who the hell would want to spend their days like that? And the family isn't helping much with comments like " We told her we were gonna keep her alive and she turned and smiled right then and there". Reminds me of Ralph Wiggum : " Mrs. Krabappel and Principal Skinner were in the closet making babies and I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me."


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"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3952361 - 03/22/05 05:55 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Dark_Star said:
I find it amusing as well as disturbing that christians, who claim to believe in Heaven, and claim to believe that Jesus saved them are so afraid of death, and seem to view it as an evil, something to be avoided at all costs. You would think they would view joining God in Heaven as a good thing, but instead they fear it. This points to deeply flawed faith & beliefs.


Exactly. It is very disturbing as well that many of the people defending the "holy right to life" right now would be the first to defend the death penalty. A few extremists among those people don't have a problem either with the assassination of abortion doctors. Go figure.
What this all points to is fear of death, I think you're right. If you fight to defend life at any cost, except to deal death as a punishment, it says a lot about how you view death, and how intensely you fear your own death. Maybe they figure that since they're hardly without sins (understatement), death is going to take them straight to the purgatory or, worse even, hell. I hope this will turn out to be a self-fulfilling prophecy  :hellfire:  :hellfire:  :hellfire:


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Aldous]
    #3952908 - 03/22/05 11:57 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

This whole thing makes me sick.

-- She said she wanted to be starved to death. Hearsay!

-- Starved to death. Bullshit! This woman is presently dying from dehydration.

-- It will be painless. What the hell would make you think this woman can't feel pain? She laughs she cries, she looks at people when they enter the room.

--Her husband wants her dead so he can inherit her money.

And most importantly this is about the validity of the rule of law. The declaration of independence guarantees the right to life. It is the primary function of the government to protect the lives of the vulnerable from those who would unjustly kill them. If this woman is dehydrated to death by court order, then the rule of law is no longer valid.

This just makes me sick, and you people who are so eager for this woman to die also make me sick.

There really is a culture of death. I thought for the longest time that those who favored the death penalty, and abortion, and euthanasia were simply misguided. If only they could be shown the error in their reasoning that they would agree that people should not be killed. This case in Florida is demonstrating that I was wrong. There are those who think that death is better than life. This is pure evil. The US court system has sided with evil over good, they have chosen death over life. There is no question here about whether it really is a person as in the case of abortion. There is no question about whether or not it is OK to execute those guilty of crimes as is the case with the death penalty; she is clearly guilty of no crime. There is question of death with dignity as is the case with assisted suicide; an agonizing death by dehydration is certainly not dignified. There is simply a desire for death over life.

There has to be something demonic going on here. Those of you who want this woman to die are wrong in the most fundamental kind of way. The base premise for your entire picture of reality is opposite from what it should be. The culture of death is real. Evil is winning. This is so disturbing it makes me sick.

Lord have mercy on us!


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OfflineC20H25N3O
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Cyber]
    #3952918 - 03/22/05 12:00 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cyber said:
There is so much that congress waists time and money one. Making and passing laws that they really have no power to do.

Try this, Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution outlines the duties of congress as follows

Quote:


The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

To provide for the punishment of counterfeiting the securities and current coin of the United States;

To establish post offices and post roads;

To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries;

To constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court;

To define and punish piracies and felonies committed on the high seas, and offenses against the law of nations;

To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water;

To raise and support armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years;

To provide and maintain a navy;

To make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval forces;

To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;--And

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.





I don't see a line that states that congress can tell the federal courts what cases to hear!




That really is all we need, why should we debate this any further. Wether she lives or dies this post is about congresses intervention in this matter. Which was clearly unconsitiuional


--------------------

Calico Kahlia come tell me the news
Calamity's waiting for a way to get to her
Rosy red and electric blue
I bought you a paddle for your paper canoe

Say you'll come back when you can
Whenever your airplane happens to land
Maybe I'll be back here too
It all depends on what's with you


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: shroomydan]
    #3952955 - 03/22/05 12:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

-- It will be painless. What the hell would make you think this woman can't feel pain? She laughs she cries, she looks at people when they enter the room.




Only her brain stem is functioning. The parts of her brain responsible for pain/pleasure and consciousness itself are dead. The twitching and movement are simply physical instincts or manifestations of the the brain stem. Do not mistake these easily-mistaken movements as consciousness - when they monitor her now liquified brain with an EKG, there is nothing - flatline, no brain activity whatsoever.

She is just a body at this point. Braindead.

You think we are "death hungry"? She is already dead, as far as I am concerned.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: Congress & Bush's interferance in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Dark_Star]
    #3953065 - 03/22/05 12:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I believe it's bullshit, first off it's none of the governments business....




:thumbup:


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: Vvellum]
    #3953129 - 03/22/05 01:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I think you and many others are death hungry. I've seen the video of her, she is very much conscious. Why do you want her dead?


Quote:

She is already dead, as far as I am concerned




This is an illustration of what I'm talking about. Those of you who prefer darkness to light, life to death, cannot even accept that she is alive and being killed by court order. You are wrong in the most profound kind of way. God this is sick.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: shroomydan]
    #3953151 - 03/22/05 01:23 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

> -- She said she wanted to be starved to death. Hearsay!

Wow, twist some emotion into the issue. No, I doubt she asked to be starved to death... no sane person would want this unless they were making a point. Did she ask not to be left on life support? I don't know...

> -- Starved to death. Bullshit! This woman is presently dying from dehydration.

Wow, lets get petty on definitions. Starved for water or starved for food is still starved.

> -- It will be painless. What the hell would make you think this woman can't feel pain? She laughs she cries, she looks at people when they enter the room.

How do you know she laughs or cries? Have you been in the room with her? I have only heard these types of claims from her family, not from any licenced medical doctor. Unless an expert verifies that she has brain activity, by using scientific/medical methods, I will tend to disregard such statements as emotional pleas from the family.

> --Her husband wants her dead so he can inherit her money.

What money? She has been on life support for what, something like 15 years now? I don't know, but my guess is that there isn't much (if any) money to be had. Is your statement a guess, or do you know for fact that her husband will inherit a lot of money upon her death?

> And most importantly this is about the validity of the rule of law. The declaration of independence guarantees the right to life.

And yet we murder murders all the time... the declaration of independence is not the constitution...

> It is the primary function of the government to protect the lives of the vulnerable from those who would unjustly kill them.

Allowing her to finish dieing is a far cry from killing her. Oh, and what is a justified killing? Just curious.

> If this woman is dehydrated to death by court order, then the rule of law is no longer valid.

... the rule of the law as you interpret it. Again, adding in the extra emotion from the deydration argument.

> This just makes me sick, and you people who are so eager for this woman to die also make me sick.

I am not eager to see this woman die, but I find it horrid that the people like you and me are sticking our nose into her business. This is between her, her family, and their beliefs... we should be respectful enough to mind our own business and not judge others.

> There really is a culture of death.

Life is full of death, it cannot be avoided. I would much rather embrace death than fear it.

> I thought for the longest time that those who favored the death penalty, and abortion, and euthanasia were simply misguided.

I still feel that they are misguided... BUT... it is not my place to decide for somebody else what their moral values should be. I was given the most blessed gift possible, the freedom to make mistakes and to save myself. Who am I to take this gift away from somebody else?

> There are those who think that death is better than life.

Some people have higher moral values than others...

> This is pure evil.

Why?

> The US court system has sided with evil over good, they have chosen death over life.

The US court system does not bother itself with good or evil.

> There is no question here about whether it really is a person as in the case of abortion.

Of course there is... if there weren't, we wouldn't be having this debate. The woman has no brain activity... she is brain dead... she isn't really alive, but her body is being kept alive through artificial means... this is the true evil if you ask me.

> There is question of death with dignity as is the case with assisted suicide

Dignity? What dignity does this woman have with tubes stuck into her body to pump in food and suck out waste...

> an agonizing death by dehydration is certainly not dignified.

Give me an example of a dignified death?

> There is simply a desire for death over life.

There is a desire for closure.

> There has to be something demonic going on here.

Why?

> Those of you who want this woman to die are wrong in the most fundamental kind of way.

Judge others, for they deserve to be judged!

> The base premise for your entire picture of reality is opposite from what it should be.

Funny, I would say the same about your position.

> The culture of death is real. Evil is winning. This is so disturbing it makes me sick.

Step back and look from another direction. I see where you are coming from, and to a large extent I agree with you... BUT... it is not my place to judge others... if I am going to err, I will follow the example given to me and allow my brothers and sisters to have freedom to make mistakes and continue to love them regardless.

> Lord have mercy on us!

Amen.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Congress & Bush's in the Terri Schiavo situation. [Re: shroomydan]
    #3953265 - 03/22/05 01:53 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know what state or federal law says in regards to this situation. I can only give my opinions.

#1 The federal government should stay out of it. It is a state matter.

#2 I think it is sickening to prolong somebody's pain when it would be easier for them to just die. I also think it is wrong to keep someone's body alive by artificial means when it is quite obvious that they will never come back to physical or mental life. I would not want to live like that woman has lived for years. Death is preferrable to what she has gone through.

If I were in her situation and I was capable of communicating to people around me, I would be screaming, "Pull the Plug!".


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