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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam
    #3899931 - 03/10/05 10:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Spanish clerics issue Osama fatwa
Thursday, March 10, 2005 Posted: 4:50 PM EST (2150 GMT)

MADRID, Spain (AP) -- Muslim clerics in Spain issued what they called the world's first fatwa, or Islamic edict, against Osama bin Laden on Thursday, the first anniversary of the Madrid train bombings, calling him an apostate and urging others of their faith to denounce the al Qaeda leader.

The ruling was issued by the Islamic Commission of Spain, the main body representing the country's 1 million-member Muslim community. The commission represents 200 or so mostly Sunni mosques, or about 70 percent of all mosques in Spain.

The March 11, 2004, train bombings killed 191 people and were claimed in videotapes by militants who said they had acted on al Qaeda's behalf in revenge for Spain's troop deployment in Iraq.

The commission's secretary general, Mansur Escudero, said the group had consulted with Muslim leaders in other countries, such as Morocco -- home to most of the jailed suspects in the bombings -- Algeria and Libya, and had their support.

"They agree," Escudero said, referring to the Muslim leaders in the three North African countries. "What I want is that they say so publicly."

The fatwa said that according to the Quran "the terrorist acts of Osama bin Laden and his organization al Qaeida ... are totally banned and must be roundly condemned as part of Islam."

It added: "Inasmuch as Osama bin Laden and his organization defend terrorism as legal and try to base it on the Quran ... they are committing the crime of 'istihlal' and thus become apostates that should not be considered Muslims or treated as such."

The Arabic term "istihlal" refers to the act of making up one's own laws.

Escudero said a fatwa can be issued by any Muslim leader who leads prayer sessions and as he serves such a role, he himself lawfully issued the edict.

He called it an unprecedented condemnation of bin Laden. "We felt now we had the responsibility and obligation to make this declaration," he said in an interview.

"I hope there is a positive reaction from Muslims," he added.

Asked if the edict meant Muslims had to help police try to arrest the world's most wanted man -- who is believed to be hiding along the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan -- Escudero said: "We don't get involved in police affairs but we do feel that all Muslims are obliged to ... keep anyone from doing unjustified damage to other people."


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Invisibleusefulidiot
It's notfascist, it's...Neoconservative!

Registered: 11/21/02
Posts: 732
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3900096 - 03/10/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Why can't god just bless everything..


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3900101 - 03/10/05 11:03 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It took them three and a half years after 9/11 to do this?


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3900115 - 03/10/05 11:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Most likely due to outside pressure... can't think of another reason (unless they didn't realize the impact it would have)


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3900127 - 03/10/05 11:14 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

That's like asking for the whole cake, Randall. Give us time, we have a big house to clean.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #3900133 - 03/10/05 11:15 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Most likely due to outside pressure... can't think of another reason (unless they didn't realize the impact it would have)



Maybe it had to do with the fact that they actually live in Spain.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
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Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: Silversoul]
    #3900145 - 03/10/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)


Maybe it had to do with the fact that they actually live in Spain.

Yeah. The whole Madrid bombing thing is probably what caused them to do it.


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Offlinelonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: Silversoul]
    #3900149 - 03/10/05 11:17 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

"Hello Mullah, Hello Fatwa, we can Jihad in Granada"


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America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Male
Registered: 02/06/05
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Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: Silversoul]
    #3900155 - 03/10/05 11:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Quote:

Psychoactive1984 said:
Most likely due to outside pressure... can't think of another reason (unless they didn't realize the impact it would have)



Maybe it had to do with the fact that they actually live in Spain.




And? What does that have to do with anything, he's still associated with their religion... Look to the past with other leaders that didn't listen/obey the church, immediate excommunication as it looked bad on the church as well.

That's almost suggesting that they partially are ok with everything he did as long as they aren't affected by it.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3900165 - 03/10/05 11:20 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

So now it's not good enough? God damn, Randy. Do you want a shoe shine too.


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3900177 - 03/10/05 11:25 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Osama is just an islamist extremist with money, i doubt he's never personally killed anyone in his life. He still finacially supported terrorists though.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3900194 - 03/10/05 11:30 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)


So now it's not good enough? God damn, Randy. Do you want a shoe shine too.


Yes, I do. And while these clerics are shining my shoes, I want them to sing the Israeli national anthem.


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3900209 - 03/10/05 11:32 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You gotta meet us half way, mang. The only antheme that will be sung is the U.N.'s, if they even have one. If not, we're singing Peace Train by Cat Stevens.


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OfflineSWEDEN
Miracle of Science

Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2,577
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3900215 - 03/10/05 11:33 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



--------------------


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OfflineThe_Walrus
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Registered: 03/03/05
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Loc: Cambridge, Britain
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3901423 - 03/11/05 09:36 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

It is about damn time the moderates made themselves heard. I have read the Koran, and Osama Bin Ladens interpretation of it is EXTREMELY twisting it to it's limits, if not beyond it. In no way, shape or form does the Koran endorse killing innocent civilians, women and children, and especially Muslims, but Osama says all these are OK. Islam at it's heart is a progressive religion which is perfectly compatible with democracy and individual rights. That is why it flourished in the 7th century and produced so much knowledge and ingenuity (they even calculated the speed of light with amazing accuracy, by measuring very accuretaly the difference between where the moon was supposed to be, and where it actually appeared, only in the 19th century was this accuracy matched). It is such a shame that Islam got radicalised with the crusades, ever since then it has simply gone backwards by the decade. What is happening now in the middle east now I think is a turning point, hopefully in a centuries time Islam should become what it was intended to be, an influential world power which prides ingenuity.


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'Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted' - Albert Einstein


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InvisibleCJay
Dark Stranger
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Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 931
Loc: Riding a bassline
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: The_Walrus]
    #3901956 - 03/11/05 12:18 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Look to the past with other leaders that didn't listen/obey the church, immediate excommunication as it looked bad on the church as well.




However if those leaders wanted to wage war on Islamic people that was always fine. Peace and love, except when up for war and killing.
Praise be to Jesus. "Thou shalt not kill" - well unless 'Jesus' tells your bosses to tell the priests to tell you to do so.

If you were an inventor or genius on the other hand - aaaaargghh! excommunicate the fucker!


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Invisibletrick

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 1,059
Loc: unknown
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: CJay]
    #3902039 - 03/11/05 12:34 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

As far as I'm concerned, if you're going to criticize Osama you also have to criticize Christian fundamentalists. Both play two big roles in their religions and both exort falsified information. Osama got his ideas from Ayman al-Zawahari and Zawahari from Sayyid Qutb, who examined the U.S.'s days of liberal lavish and carelessness as evil. They didn't manipulate the Quran as much as they did their own ideals of how to rid this world of infidels. Both the Neo-Cons & Christian fundamentalists also played a large role in getting this movement as popular as it is and the liberals are no better in this case because of the vital fact that all parties are guilty in some way.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: CJay]
    #3903572 - 03/11/05 04:54 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

CJay said:
Quote:

Look to the past with other leaders that didn't listen/obey the church, immediate excommunication as it looked bad on the church as well.




However if those leaders wanted to wage war on Islamic people that was always fine. Peace and love, except when up for war and killing.
Praise be to Jesus. "Thou shalt not kill" - well unless 'Jesus' tells your bosses to tell the priests to tell you to do so.

If you were an inventor or genius on the other hand - aaaaargghh! excommunicate the fucker!




:lol:  :thumbup:


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineIts Pat
Don't OD dipshit nub.
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Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 7,998
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Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3903822 - 03/11/05 05:43 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
It took them three and a half years after 9/11 to do this?




This has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on 9/11 in the United States what so ever!!!

Its the one year anniversary of the train bombings in Spain, that is why they are doing this; has nothing to do with 9/11.

You would think the U.S. islamist groups would have done something like this already. Which makes you think that the ones in the U.S. are inline with Bin Hiden?


--------------------

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: God bless Freedom, God bless the people of Lebanon, God bless Islam [Re: Its Pat]
    #3904007 - 03/11/05 06:37 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)



This has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks on 9/11 in the United States what so ever!!!

Its the one year anniversary of the train bombings in Spain, that is why they are doing this; has nothing to do with 9/11.

I know. I was just giving Zahudallah shit. I like doing that sometimes. Read all of my posts in the thread. You will see a jesting spirit throughout them.


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