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InvisibleGreat_Satan
prophet of God
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Registered: 09/05/04
Posts: 953
Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland
    #3355093 - 11/13/04 12:05 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

Afshin Ellian / ?In their eyes i?m a traitor?
by Wilma Kieskamp
2004-11-13


Afshin Ellian, rights-philosopher (or law-philosopher) , born in Iran, feels its is his civil duty to warn the world for political Islam, which now also threatens Holland. ?If I still dare? I?d prefer many more dare. Now i feel unprotected.?

Afshin Ellian [38], born in Iran, has all reason to. The past years he has ? in newspapers and on TV ? issued sharp criticism on Islam. Ellian is law-philosopher and head teacher at the State-university Leiden, and columnist for NRC-Handelsblad. He warned that political Islam threatens Holland, he supported the overthrow of the regime of Saddam Hussein by the United States, and was a supporter of the headscarve-ban in French schools.

Maybe his criticism was not so prominent or frequent as that by Ayaan Hirsi Ali. But there is a similarity; just like her Ellian himself comes from the Islamic world. ?A traitor. Because I come from their culture.?

He didn?t make it any easier for himself this past week with this performance on Netwerk (Dutch daily news-show), on the night of the Van Gogh-murder. Ellian spoke a column for the camera. In the discussion afterwards he grew into great rage. Another guest Mohammed Benzakour claimed that the murder of Van Gogh did not originate from religion. The murder DID, Ellian responded in anger. ?This murderer went to a mosque, he has an imam, he has a mother, and he learned everything from the Quran!? he yelled at his opponent. ?To commit a murder, to make a sacrifice. For a perverse God! And you should say that!?

He doesn?t have any regret. ?People in my immediate surroundings were shocked immensely. They called me, warned me. Just like I had received many phonecalls immediately after the first news about the murder. Even my sister in Teheran called me the same day.? He sighs, lights another cigarette. The packs of Pall Mall laying ready in stacks. ?I have to say things as I see them, don?t i? I?m not anti-Islam, I only criticise. We are in Europe, aren?t we? People like Benzakour, and there are many like him from the Islamic world, they infuriate me; he pretends like the Van Gogh-murder is some kind of Tjoelker-case. But it al has to do with Islam itself. And there must be a debate about it.?

Afshin Ellian grew up in a pluriform family, with Muslims, Christians and mystics. His father was a soldier, a liberal man.

?I?ve seen the birth of political Islam. What is happening now in Holland, is an aftershock of that coup. I was about thirteen. We went into the street to send away the sjah, with the thousands we went. On the schoolyard, I dared to throw a stone and to call ?long live freedom?. We thought Khomeini could be trusted, even if you weren?t really religious yourself, like my older brother, friend and me, and considered religion to be a private matter. We had different ideals. We were leftwingers. You see, there were only two choices: you were either religious or you were a leftwinger. A beardman or a Marxist. From Western-Germany we received small books about Lenin. We thought we had unleashed the last classical revolution, but we didn?t see what was really going on.?

?Only a few months after the fall of the sjah the masks dropped. Then headscarves became obligatory, then Hamas suddenly surfaced. On school we could hang up our own leftist posters for about one week, after which all the walls were for a splintergroup of Hezbollah. The leftist newspapers for which I wrote as a student, were outlawed one by one. Then the murder in the name of Allah started. But the leftwingers refused to see. Women who went into the streets to protest again the hijab were ?asskissers of the US?. Us leftwingers didn?t dare face the facts that political Islam had other intentions with humanity. That everybody was supposed to bow.?

The images keep returning since the death of Theo Van Gogh, Ellian says. ?This is so unbelievable: the first ritual murder in Europe, committed in the name of Allah. I almost literally have the feeling that I?m back in the middle-east. The letter found on Theo Van Gogh?s body, I recognised immediately. I smelled the middle-east. This is not some copy-and-paste from a lonely lunatic. I have the feeling I?ve been here before.?

At age seventeen he fled Iran. ?I?ve lived underground, on the run from the beardmen. My cousin was lying in a massgrave, people my age were killed. With two friends I crossed the border to Pakistan on a camel, and travelled to Afghanistan later. That was the first time I died in my head. I?ve cried, cried. The ground was wet with tears. My mother would have preferred me to become a beardman. I?ve never seen my parents since.?

?In Afghanistan I?ve died for the second time. We were received as heroes, because we were in the resistance. I started studying medicine and making radio programs and met my wife there, an Afghan student like me. But only then did I discover the emptiness of the leftist ideology. How demoralised it was. The Russian were just as much frauds as the ayatollahs. Freedom and civil rights were of no interest to them, and neither was democracy for Iran. I wrote to Gorbachov, and then I was out of the party. We fled to the UN-representation to get away. This was in 1987. As such we ended up in Holland as invited refugees. As ?Eastern-Europe-dissidents? of all things. Nothing interested me anymore. I learned to speak Dutch in a year, buried myself in three studies at the same time, started writing poetry and locked myself in a studying room.?

Especially since september 11th 2001, and now after the death of Theo Van Gogh, Afshin Ellian is resuming political opinion. ?After September 11th I almost felt it as my civil duty. I saw what others perhaps couldn?t see: we are in Iran. A strange sense of joy overcame me, in 2001, and now again. Maybe finally the West too will understand how political Islam wants to overthrow the world. I have to warn. Another thing that was an issue, is that we were living with our own young kids in a multicultural neighbourhood. I was shocked immensely over the large groups of Muslims for whom Islam was the only thing they could hold on to while searching for their own identity. And I knew how dangerous it can be if those people were to be enchanted by radical Islam.?

?I now know what the solution is for this gigantic problem. The answer I found in the books I devoured in my studying room. In the Dutch constitution which delivered me from my uncaring. In Nietzsche, Rousseau, the bible, the Quran. I?ve embraced the enlightenment. And i?ve learned that the conscience can only function if ideas are scrutinised sharply. And that is exactly what is missing in Islam. The only solution is that Islam itself is discussed. Polemics is the solution. Daring to make jokes. Even mock. It should go hand in hand. But for years this was not allowed in progressive Holland. Hands off of Islam.?

?That discussion is so sensitive because you end up quickly at the prophet himself. Muhammed led a violent life. If there was a ministry of justice in his time, he would have been arrested for incitement to murder. For instance, he had the poet Ka?b bin al-Ashraf assassinated in Medina, because he didn?t like his verses. ?Who can rid me of this man??, he asked. The ones that came forward, were blessed by him. The poet was murdered brutally. They stuck the knife so deep into his body that some say it came back out at his rear end.?

?In the Quran this story can not be found. They are historical facts, everyone can read it in the widely accepted biography of Sirat Rasoul Allah, a classical book. I say: ?Let?s talk about this, about the role of violence in the Quran. If you measure it to current standards, Muhammed had a violent side. With which I?m not claiming he was not a prophet. And I understand how sensitive it is. But many Muslims do not know these historical facts. And maybe they should alter their notions about the prophet, if they gain the knowledge. But why shouldn?t they be able to? Maybe they should return to the Muhammed of his first period, before he started becoming involved in politics. And it doesn?t mean you exclude God from your life, does it? Myself I am a poet. God is the greatest poet. As a poet i need God. But i do have a critical relationship with him.?

Does Ellian still dare to say such things? ?If I still dare? I?d prefer that many more dare. Let as many people as possible say this. If I have to be the only one, I feel unprotected. I?ve also written for Trouw (Dutch daily newspaper), and through that paper I?ve met Ayaan Hirsi Ali. For kidding?s sake I sometimes say I hope Trouw gets a fatwa as well.? He laughs aloud. ?Why just us??

?Therein currently lies my greatest disappointment: in my state of abandonment. That you have to ask for security yourself. Let us talk ourselves into courage instead of fear. I want to remain optimistic. Just like my deceased father I believe in the reason of mankind. If only we continue writing, dare to make jokes, alter ideas, people will start to think by themselves. Reasonable people can change the world.?


Source: http://www.trouw.nl/nieuwsenachtergronden/artikelen/1100271366237.html


Link to the translator:
http://forum.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?t=5481


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OfflineSpongerock
Stranger
Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 51
Last seen: 12 years, 23 days
Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3355828 - 11/13/04 03:24 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

tldr


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
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Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: Spongerock]
    #3356234 - 11/13/04 05:03 PM (12 years, 23 days ago)

good article.


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1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3356653 - 11/13/04 06:54 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

This should go to S&P.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3356897 - 11/13/04 07:56 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Quote:

zahudulallah said:
This should go to S&P.




No it shouldn't. This is clearly politics. Following your reasoning, if there is any, all of YOUR posts should be in S&P


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3356915 - 11/13/04 07:58 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

My posts actually pertain to politics. This is simply annoying jibber jabber from GS... "Islam hits Holland!"...make a post how Hinduism is on the rise in Sri Lanka chances are it won't hang around here that long.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: zahudulallah]
    #3356928 - 11/13/04 08:01 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

It seemed pretty political to me there junior


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3356933 - 11/13/04 08:02 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Long live Theo vanGogh


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Offlinezahudulallah
Sexual Heretic

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 10,579
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Iranian intellectual talks about Islam in Holland [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3356942 - 11/13/04 08:04 PM (12 years, 22 days ago)

Long Live Mohammed B.  :shocked: :tongue2:


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