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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: spudamore]
    #3490077 -

The state of pure meditation changes as you "wake up" from it, but the psychospiritual evolution from the pure energy - the actual change from that pure meditation.. is what is sustained, as Krishnamurti says. From there, the change becomes so deep and profound, that one 'stops traveling inwardly North, or East or West or South'.. as they discussed.



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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3490082 -

K: Deliberate, practiced meditation, which is really pre-meditated meditation. Is there a meditation which is not premeditated ? which is not the ego trying to become something ? or being able to negate?

Is he saying that the only way to do it is, we can't start meditating by will right?


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490091 -

to let go of the ego's will to obtain something or become something. just let meditation be. its observation without questioning, second guessing and the likes of


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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3490099 -

i could have experienced it but i don't know because i don't know how to define it. but after there was a change, a change of physical self-mind-thought, it was small at 1st but kept getting deeper and deeper, but how come one cannot stay in that state once awaken or is one still in that state but conscious mind takes over?


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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490105 -

Ok that's what I thought.

SkorpivoMusterion said:
The state of pure meditation changes as you "wake up" from it, but the psychospiritual evolution from the pure energy - the actual change from that pure meditation.. is what is sustained, as Krishnamurti says. From there, the change becomes so deep and profound, that one 'stops traveling inwardly North, or East or West or South'.. as they discussed.



I still can't understand it. Is there some way to make it more lam-ens terms. I mean I have three different ideas as to what that means to me because I'm an idiot. And this is the three things I'm getting out of it:

You can wake yourself up out of the meditation whenever you decide to, but your way of thinking changes and you are more at peace with yourself than before, and the next time you want to go back into it you can easily and faster each time and still have the ability to get out of it. Or

You don't wake up unless something wakes you up because you are at a state of consciousness where there is nothing. Or

I'm still misunderstanding. :\


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490106 -

I mean I have three different ideas as to what that means to me because I'm an idiot.

you are anything but.

it doesn't really matter how you do define it just let it be, don't question, experience it embrace it, let go.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: spudamore]
    #3490107 -

Is he saying that the only way to do it is, we can't start meditating by will right?

Well, it'd certainly be mountainously difficult to enter pure meditation right in the midst of a fragmented, noisy mind; so it is then obvious that willed-meditation, i.e. a silent mind, is a natural prerequesite to engage into meditation...
Similar to what Spud said; the mind's perception of one's divinity is just an ego-trip; true meditation is rising above the mind; it is not something that is sought in the mind.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: spudamore]
    #3490121 -

Ok I see now.

In order for us to fall asleep though, we have to have a silent mind right? Not saying that going to sleep is meditation, but more of... it's own cause, to let the physical body rejuvenate. So that same silent mind that we have before we fall asleep must be achieved before pure meditation?


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490128 -

You can wake yourself up out of the meditation whenever you decide to, but your way of thinking changes and you are more at peace with yourself than before, and the next time you want to go back into it you can easily and faster each time and still have the ability to get out of it.

That is beyond what Krishnamurti has shared of his experiences, and it is only that which he has actually spoken of in the dialogue that I can help you understand of - I haven't reached his level of expertise yet.

Experience is the best teacher, and I'd recommend you set out a goal to achieve and experience such - then you will see. :smile:



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490134 -

yup i would guess so, i don't know because when i get into a deep meditation, i guess it would be like semi-conscious, aware of everything, but not its kinda hard to explain in words.
i have holosync cds. i would put them on, for everybody that say they don't work, well they did for me. all you do is concentrate on the sound, and after the 1st track am out of it aware/observing but no thought, no question just experience, but don't know because cannot define it.
afterwards i came around one would be dazed, brain starts to hurt especially in places that i think that might not be used or are awakening. feel energy bouncing around to the sound of the music that was on the cd, brain fully buzzing.
but no conscious recollection of the experience itself, could be nothing or could be something, don't know, can't question it because questioning it wouldn't come to a conclusion.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490136 -

In order for us to fall asleep though, we have to have a silent mind right? Not saying that going to sleep is meditation, but more of... it's own cause, to let the physical body rejuvenate. So that same silent mind that we have before we fall asleep must be achieved before pure meditation?

Yes and actually, sleep - dreamless, sound sleep IS a form of meditation, albeit non-formal.

Whenever the mind becomes a single point, as opposed to a scattered mess of points, it is in a meditative mindset.



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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3490153 -

Hmm. So it's basically being one with what you are focusing on? Yet, it's not really focusing, it's like a different type of focusing... like... a non controlled focusing.

If that's the case I can really only recall one time in my life I've ever done that, and it was meditating to Korn, I never did it before after that because I was a bit scared. I know one thing it did though, it gave me a wrong type of spirit/essence to my thoughts and feelings after the meditation with it. I know what you are saying though, it's hard to explain. I've been in a state of that being before.

What I'm afraid of though is going beyond that state, being one with something. But rather, being one with everything. And if the only way to be one with everything is to be one with the state of nothingness, I'd be to afraid to try it and not get out of it.

Quote:
SkorpivoMusterion said:
In order for us to fall asleep though, we have to have a silent mind right? Not saying that going to sleep is meditation, but more of... it's own cause, to let the physical body rejuvenate. So that same silent mind that we have before we fall asleep must be achieved before pure meditation?

Yes and actually, sleep - dreamless, sound sleep IS a form of meditation, albeit non-formal.

Whenever the mind becomes a single point, as opposed to a scattered mess of points, it is in a meditative mindset.




AH! See I thought so. I've done it before then, but not at the state of a regularly willing to go to sleep every night, type.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

Edited by AreoZephin (12/13/04 08:07 AM)

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490164 -

nothing to worry if you are afraid because that will hinder you to let go. it is somewhat overwhelming at times but once you let go of everything the fear itself is not there for you to matter.


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suicide a permanent solution to a temporary problem

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: spudamore]
    #3490170 -

spudamore said:
nothing to worry if you are afraid because that will hinder you to let go. it is somewhat overwhelming at times but once you let go of everything the fear itself is not there for you to matter.


Man I've seriously done this before then... only once. I want to try it again then. I will try so eventually. But you're right, fear will eventually not be an option to think about once you've reached that state. I'm glad for that.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490186 -

the overwhelming sensation is just the ego controling what it cannot. have to develope a technique so that you can get to that door. everytime when you get close the ego starts to fade more and more and it becomes easier to step up to it, but walking through is a whole different story.


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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: spudamore]
    #3490214 -

My question now is then, why would one want to achieve this state of meditation?


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490221 -

it could be for any reason (pleasure, healing, wisdom, ect, ect) at 1st, but after awhile you let go of the reason, and it starts not to matter.


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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: spudamore]
    #3490270 -

To me, nothing to matter gives no purpose of emotion. To me, that would promote being a robot. And that would defy everything that God supposedly had done for mankind. That's why it seems odd to me. Mainly because someones reaching for the goal of nothingness at the start.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: AreoZephin]
    #3490284 -

When the mind is still, ie when there is a state of no-mind, there is the joy of being, inner peace.. which arise from within... and beyond the mind.

True joy and inner peace are states of Being, whereas emotions such as pleasure [which can be mistaken for true joy, love], hate, etc. arise out of the conditioned consciousness that is known as the human mind.

It is this state of Being,when the mind is rendered still, or powerless, that genuine love comes from - vibrantly alive stillness. Stillness is another word to describe nothingess.



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Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.

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Re: Roots of Psychological Conflict [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #3490302 -

Could it is also be said that nothingness is another word for stillness? Being that, there is no time, yet there are still things that are there. That time has no meaning in that state of being whether it be another reality/realm/meditation, yet there is something there, some thing wether it be music or meditation or an image of a box in your head for hours becoming one with it, or allowing your spirit to rest by means of freezing time.


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The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so.

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