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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: lonestar2004]
    #3461660 -

i once had a teacher who said that fish could breathe underwater by removing oxygen from the water molecule. i remember i had a health teacher who informed us that it was a bad idea to eat fruit while drinking alcohol because it would ferment and we'd get more alcohol in our stomachs. classic. health class was always fun though.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3461734 -

yup some dumb shit is said. but keep in mind it is teachers saying this. sure there is lots of bullshit in the lesson plans, but teachers add their own special touch of ignorance. only speaking of teachers here, they are about half the problem. yes the gov needs to straiten up and but the fuck out, and yes the whole system needs a jolt. but the teachers greed and dislike for the job is really killing it. they are very very greedy and are not willing to fully do their job. the teachers in my last district got me so pissed off and thats the reason i dropped out. they were demanding a 43% (i think it was 40 something) raise, they rarely put in a 7 hour day, CONSTANTLY bitching about how hard they have it and how much work they do for us and on and on. first they use the kids (strikes and somehow got the kids to side with Them em....wtf) to get money, or the parents if that doesnt work, then they make us feel like shit for being legally forced to attend and they just made the whole schooling experience a chore.

they put a really bitter taste in my mouth. in all fairness the shop type teachers and the student teachers really seemed to genuinely help kids and like their jobs. send the arrogant fucks to iraq and give them something to bitch about.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3461962 -

Great_Satan said:
I knew this America bashing nonsense would be here. White Americans are above average and the black and hispanic kids are below average. Let's send the black people and hispanics back where they came from. Also, drugs lower your scores, too.



I knew it. TOYK!


BTW, of course American public schools are bad. Dumber people are easier to control. If you get people dumb enough, they're liable to vote for anyone you tell them to......




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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Tao]
    #3461967 -

"I mean it has value to the rest of the society who otherwise wouldnt pay for it."
By this same line of thinking, my neighbors should pay for my landscaping and the paint on my house because it raises the property values in the neighborhood. Or how about this, early adopters of new technology should be compensated for the higher prices they paid when late adopters buy the technology at a reduced price. Or, general tax revenue should subsidize big business because said businesses will hire some people (ignoring higher taxes and their negative effects on the economy). Or, massive amounts should be spent on military invasion of mid-eastern countries so American consumers can benefit from cheaper oil prices (likewise ignoring higher taxes paid to support militarism).

The point is, that the persons who benefit directly are those who receive the education. The benefits that you are referring to can be considered along the lines of Smith's "Invisible Hand" of capitalism. These benefits are hard to quantify and as such you cannot accurately assess whether a couple with no children is benefiting from paying for the education of five children next door. Especially when one of those children may come out of school and get hired (by the same employer) more cheaply than the person who funded his education, leading to his being laid off. Admittedly, this is hypothetical, but so is the more tenuous argument of the benefits to the taxpayers who are not receiving an education (or not having money to spend on what they may consider a more worthy cause - such as cancer research or adopting a child).


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3461980 -

If education benefits the student, shouldn't the student pay for his own education?

"in an ideal world, they would. there'd also be no government."

Please re-read my post as I have offered an alternative that would provide for education and also pass the burdens on to those who benefit directly.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Learyfan]
    #3462047 -

Learyfan said:
I knew it. TOYK!


I really don't think Great_Satan is TOYK. I'm fairly sure retread is, though.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: newuser1492]
    #3462083 -

"How is a child going to pay for his own education? If his/her parents cannot pay for the education should the child be penalized by a lack of proper education?"

I already offered an alternative that addressed this...

I would have no problem if the government set up individual education accounts for each child entering public school. When the child takes classes, his fund would have charges applied for those classes. When the person enters the work force, he would then be required to pay back for his education directly to this fund. This would be pretty much like the Sallie Mae student loan program, but cover primary education and would not burden those who choose not to have children, nor would those who choose to send their children to private school have to pay. Initial funding could be raised with educational bonds (but may need some tax revenue to help get it started) and after a period the system would be self-sustaining.

Since such a fund would have only one purpose, it would benefit from the lack of the politicizing of education (or at least be less prone to it) and be immune from political bickering over budgets. There are precedents for such ideas in Sallie Mae, Freddie Mac & Fannie Mae which can be drawn from for examples and further refinement of the idea.


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: silversoul7]
    #3462087 -

Hmm, why do you say that?







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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: silversoul7]
    #3462097 -

silversoul7 said:
I went to a Catholic High School... There were no teen pregnancies that I knew of


They were all promptly shipped back among the sinful masses.


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what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Gijith]
    #3462178 -

Gijith said:
silversoul7 said:
I went to a Catholic High School... There were no teen pregnancies that I knew of


They were all promptly shipped back among the sinful masses.


It was a pretty small school. Word would've gotten around quickly if someone was pregnant.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Learyfan]
    #3462203 -

Learyfan said:
Hmm, why do you say that?


Great_Satan may make racist one-liners, but retread has made long arguments and lengthy threads defending his racist beliefs, which is much more like TOYK's style.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: kadakuda]
    #3462368 -


but the teachers greed and dislike for the job is really killing it. they are very very greedy and are not willing to fully do their job.

they were demanding a 43% (i think it was 40 something) raise, they rarely put in a 7 hour day, CONSTANTLY bitching about how hard they have it and how much work they do for us

All of the teachers in one of the local school districts went on strike for a whole month(they were forced to come back after a month because of my state's teacher strike laws). They did this for two years in a row. The reason they were striking is because they weren't "getting enough money". Greedy fuckers. Most of them were earning at least $40,000 a year with full benefits, retirement plan, etc..etc... Most of the people around my area earn $6-7 dollars an hour with no benefits($10 if you're lucky).

It is funny how some of them so obviously hate their jobs. But, I can understand why they do because the kids in my area don't seem to give a fuck.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: silversoul7]
    #3462385 -

silversoul7 said:
Learyfan said:
Hmm, why do you say that?


Great_Satan may make racist one-liners, but retread has made long arguments and lengthy threads defending his racist beliefs, which is much more like TOYK's style.


Ahh, the mysteries of life.

I'll have to take your word on that. I haven't seen it.







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Mp3 of the month: ESB - Mushroom People


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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3462390 -


health class was always fun though.

My health class teacher(and ironically she was also a gym teacher) was a morbidly obese lady who was rumored to be a lesbian. The girl students would complain that she would watch them change in the locker room.

In health class she would constantly lament about how she would never get married or have kids. Man, was it weird.

She was scary as all fucking hell though when she was mad. She just had a frightening demeanor about her when she got pissed. Even the guys who were over 6 foot and 200 pounds would shrink down in their desks when she yelled.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Gijith]
    #3462405 -


silversoul7 said:

I went to a Catholic High School... There were no teen pregnancies that I knew of


Gijith said:

They were all promptly shipped back among the sinful masses.


My town is such a white trash haven that 1 out of every 4 girls in the grade ahead of me were pregnant or already had a kid(or several) by the time I was in 11th grade.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3462457 -

RandalFlagg said:

but the teachers greed and dislike for the job is really killing it. they are very very greedy and are not willing to fully do their job.

they were demanding a 43% (i think it was 40 something) raise, they rarely put in a 7 hour day, CONSTANTLY bitching about how hard they have it and how much work they do for us

All of the teachers in one of the local school districts went on strike for a whole month(they were forced to come back after a month because of my state's teacher strike laws). They did this for two years in a row. The reason they were striking is because they weren't "getting enough money". Greedy fuckers. Most of them were earning at least $40,000 a year with full benefits, retirement plan, etc..etc... Most of the people around my area earn $6-7 dollars an hour with no benefits($10 if you're lucky).

It is funny how some of them so obviously hate their jobs. But, I can understand why they do because the kids in my area don't seem to give a fuck.


same sorta situation here...but the gov forced tehm to go back and gave them a 7.5 raise...which was indirectly taken from the other unions such as CUPE. tehy dont realise that 40-60 grand a year (depending how long your there, around 100k if your a shop teacher) for not a full years work is damn good. as you said full benefites, never work weekends (unless they choose to mark and such), have summer off, christmas, few days on spring break and a bunch of extra 1 day holidays. pretty good considering about 80% of them jsut regurgitate a book and see if the tests lien up with the ones they are given. not saying they dont know shit and is easy to become a teacher, but there are WAY harder jobs that pay WAY less. i bust my ass 9 hours a day for 12/hour with no benefits in construction (will have set raises pretty quick and hopefully get an apprenticeship doen with. i get fucked im layed off. im not complaining, but in mainly trades theres jsut as much thinking going on and far more risk and physical harm.

anyway i dotn pitty them cause most, in this area, are NO different than the kids except they are bigger, and make money. teh egos and immaturity and hate for school is often the same. vicouse circle that the adults are too childish to break.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Great_Satan]
    #3462545 -

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great_Satan said:
I knew this America bashing nonsense would be here. White Americans are above average and the black and hispanic kids are below average. Let's send the black people and hispanics back where they came from. Also, drugs lower your scores, too.


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Asian Americans are, on average, a good deal better than their white counterparts. Perhaps the white man should head back to Europe? "

1. I think Indians do also.

2. I was told all the way though school that Calculus was what I needed to work up to. And that Trigonometry was never used in the real world. Only take Trig if you're not ready for Calculus they said.

In my professional fields I never use Calculus, nor does my wife. (and believe me we are not ditch diggers) But we both use Trigonometry on a daily basses. As a matter of fact everyone that programes digital media though time, musicians, grapics programmers, and the like uses Trigonometry. (as do many others)

I took Calculus in high school and have never used it, but I had to teach my self Trigonometry independently.

And might I add that everything that I had to learn about Trig (and I use this on a daily basis) took me about 4 weeks while I was working 50 hours a week. (instead of the year it is taught in school)

Seriously there is something REALLY WRONG about the way we teach math in schools. The teachers (and the teachers teachers) have never been in any field other then academia for the large part. They have no real world experience with math, mostly. And are really clueless as to how math is used outside of classrooms.

Also schools are, by in large, led away from an aptitude based class structures/filing systems. So intelligent students are left to sit in class for DAYS doing HOURS of busy work for concepts they already understand.

Saying that there is something wrong with an aspect of american public shools is not 'america bashing'. There obviously is a problem, and solving that problem is important.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Anisotropic]
    #3462566 -

Anisotropic said:
Seriously there is something REALLY WRONG about the way we teach math in schools.  The teachers (and the teachers teachers) have never been in any field other then academia for the large part.  They have no real world experience with math, mostly.  And are really clueless as to how math is used outside of classrooms.

Also schools are, by in large, led away from an aptitude based class structures/filing systems.  So intelligent students are left to sit in class for DAYS doing HOURS of busy work for concepts they already understand.

Saying that there is something wrong with an aspect of american public shools is not 'america bashing'.  There obviously is a problem, and solving that problem is important.


:thumbup:


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: ]
    #3462660 -

Just think if we focused on teaching kids how to teach themselves. If children would just self-motivate they could learn 10 times as much at 1/10th the cost. Most kids don't really want to learn, and considering the way the material is presented, I can't blame them.


Facts in a lifeless book have no relevance to a child's world. History should only be taught by those who lived it. In other words, get rid of history books, and just have old people come in and talk about the past.

How about this: we pay the kids directly to teach themselves.


How much does it cost to teach a kid in public school for a year? I bet if we paid the kids 1/4 that yearly to teach themselves most of them would hop to it.


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https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

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Re: US schools 2+3=6 [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3462699 -

agreed. except i dont think kids "dont like learning". kids love learning, jsut not all of them liek learing the same thing. one kid will LOVE poetry, another ethnobotany, another sewing, another math, another pe, another hunting, another diving. the problem is schools dont make what they teach (which is often already a bore to most) remotly interesting. except mayb in grade 1 when they bride us with candy and we finger paint all day.

but ya pay me som eof that money you pay the schools for me and i think my grades would have doubled at least.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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