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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Public schools no place for teachers' kids
    #3164123 - 09/22/04 12:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

PUBLIC SCHOOLS NO PLACE FOR TEACHERS' KIDS
By George Archibald
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Quote:


More than 25 percent of public school teachers in Washington and Baltimore send their children to private schools, a new study reports.

Nationwide, public school teachers are almost twice as likely as other parents to choose private schools for their own children, the study by the Thomas B. Fordham Institute found. More than 1 in 5 public school teachers said their children attend private schools.

In Washington (28 percent), Baltimore (35 percent) and 16 other major cities, the figure is more than 1 in 4. In some cities, nearly half of the children of public school teachers have abandoned public schools.

In Philadelphia, 44 percent of the teachers put their children in private schools; in Cincinnati, 41 percent; Chicago, 39 percent; Rochester, N.Y., 38 percent. The same trends showed up in the San Francisco-Oakland area, where 34 percent of public school teachers chose private schools for their children; 33 percent in New York City and New Jersey suburbs; and 29 percent in Milwaukee and New Orleans.

Michael Pons, spokesman for the National Education Association, the 2.7-million-member public school union, declined a request for comment on the study's findings. The American Federation of Teachers also declined to comment.

Public school teachers told the Fordham Institute's surveyors that private and religious schools impose greater discipline, achieve higher academic achievement and offer overall a better atmosphere.

"Across the states, 12.2 percent of all families ? urban, rural and suburban ? send their children to private schools," says the report, based on 2000 census data.

"Public education in many of our large cities is broken," the surveyors conclude. "The fix? Choice, in part, to be sure."

Public school teachers in Philadelphia, Cincinnati, Chicago, Rochester, N.Y., and Baltimore registered the most dissatisfaction with the schools in which they teach.

"These results do not surprise most practicing teachers to whom we speak," say report authors Denis P. Doyle, founder of a school improvement company, SchoolNet Inc.; Brian Diepold, an economics graduate student at American University; and David A. DeSchryver, editor of the Doyle Report, an online education policy and technology journal.

"Teachers, it is reasonable to assume, care about education, are reasonably expert about it and possess quite a lot of information about the schools in which they teach. We can assume that no one knows the condition and quality of public schools better than teachers who work in them every day."

"They know from personal experience that many of their colleagues make such a choice [for private vs. public schools], and do so for good and sufficient reasons."

The report says the school choice movement has begun competitively forcing public school improvement, particularly in cities like Milwaukee, called "a hotbed of school reform," where 29.4 percent of public school teachers sent their children to private schools, the study finds.

"Narrow the search to teachers making less than $42,000 and the percentage enrolling their children in private schools drops to 10 percent. Because Milwaukee is a hotbed of school reform, it's possible that teachers making less than $42,000 are beginning to favor the public school system."

"If so, it might be evidence that choice is having the intended effect of spurring improvements in public education there. Or perhaps the emergence of [public school] charters has provided another free option to lower-income teachers who might otherwise choose private schooling."




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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Male

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3164138 - 09/22/04 12:12 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Public school is a joke, I've been to both public and private K-12 and the teachers aren't all that impressive in the public schools. What's pathetic is that the public schools spend more per students than those in private and home school, with obvious test failure results.


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America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3164164 - 09/22/04 12:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Shit...how telling is that(that a lot of public school teachers
send their kids to private schools)....

I remember seeing a news report back in 2000 where it showed Al
Gore extolling the virtues of public schools.  The reporter then
showed the public school where Al Gore's kids would go to IF they
weren't going to a swanky private school near Washington D.C.
It was hilarious.  The video of the private school where his kids
were going to showed people playing polo on horses.  The video of
the public school showed kids walking through metal detectors.

Even my public high school was "broken".  And I lived in a very
rural small-town atmosphere with hardly any crime.  Most of the
teachers didn't give a shit if people like me slept in their classes.
I didn't learn a thing in high school.  I never raised my hand,
never took a book home, never participated, came into school
stoned, and never stayed awake.  And, I still graduated... :grin:


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OfflineTao
Village Genius

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 7,935
Loc: San Diego
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3164185 - 09/22/04 12:22 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Very interesting.  Thanks for posting :thumbup:


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Invisiblechinadoll
there
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/02
Posts: 1,118
Loc: dark side of terrapin
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3164199 - 09/22/04 12:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I'm one of them. After seeing the bullshit that goes on in public schools, no way would I send my kids there.


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OfflineJesusChrist
Son Of God
Registered: 02/19/04
Posts: 1,459
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3164989 - 09/22/04 03:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Teachers at government schools have long sent their kids to private schools. Politicians who vote against vouchers also keep their precious progeny away from government schools. They like to defend the system when they are on the job because of the heavy involvement of the teachers unions in the political process. When they make their own choices though, you see the truth coming out.

This is a great article, and just another reason why we need to promote vouchers to break up the government monopoly on schooling and brainwashing our youth.


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Tastes just like chicken


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OfflineDivided_Sky
Ten ThousandThings

Registered: 11/02/03
Posts: 3,171
Loc: The Shining Void
Last seen: 9 years, 4 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3165406 - 09/22/04 05:20 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Public school was a dumbed down waste of my time. The unions defend mediocrity and the curriculem is constantly interupted by endless standardized test to the point that all your learn is just to pass their tests. They've decided that humanities have no place and school and their job is to train kids to be grunt workers. Our guidance counselor actually discouraged kids from going to college saying that a trade school is a much better idea.

I strongly believe in a liberal arts education that teaches kids to think, the one thing that isn't required for graduation.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #3165874 - 09/22/04 07:05 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)


. Our guidance counselor actually discouraged kids from going to
college saying that a trade school is a much better idea.


You know what's wierd though...a lot of people I know who got college
degrees ended up spending years of their lives and 50,000 dollars
to get that piece of paper. They now either still live with their
parents or have so-so jobs(if they're lucky). People I know who
went to trade school spent much less money and much less time and
they have well-paying jobs.


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3167088 - 09/22/04 11:16 PM (13 years, 30 days ago)

i post this all over the place.

http://www.spinninglobe.net/againstschool.htm

the homepage has more articles.


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"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineHagbardCeline
Student-Teacher-Student-Teacher
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 9,849
Loc: Overjoyed, at the bottom ...
Last seen: 12 hours, 35 minutes
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3167545 - 09/23/04 12:22 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Though I would certainly agree the public school system is now deeply flawed, I think the substandard education is but partly to blaim.

My g/f is a 5th grade teacher at a school in one of the most afluent suburbs of Houston, right next to Rice University. Most of the kids parents are pulling in mid 6 figures. You should have seen the Christmas presents she got. But I digress.

This is a Magnate Laureate school, has an extremely generous PTO, and has been recognized many times for outstanding academic achievement. It's all bullshit. The biggest problem facing public education today is the lack of parental involvement.

Even with all the money they get from the PTO, most of the parents do actually very little for their child. The kids don't do homework, don't pay attention, don't follow directions and have no problem distracting others who actually want to do their work. My g/f send home progress reports, calls, emails, sends letters, and tells the kids to have their parents call her. 9 out of 10 times, they don't even bother responding.

She has had them come in when they get their childs failing report card, asking why their kid is failing. She explains that they do none of the work required and that she has repeatedly tried to get them to contact her and if she's lucky the most she'll get as a response is "I work alot." They'll sit there and talk to their kids is a baby voice (10 year olds) "Did you do you homework?"-- "No"-- "Why not" -- "I don't know."-- "Well your gonna have to try harder, ok?" "Ok." The shit never changes.

After she failed several of her students last year, their parents came in asking why she'd done that, even though the above situation had gone on all year, and demanding that she pass them. The principal had to be involved and he caves, because if he didn't, he'd ending up loosing his school's status and have it hit his budget.

If the parents were more involved with their children, the education system would not be anywhere near the state it is today. It's not the curriculum or the teachers or even the standardized testing that causes these kids to not give a fuck about class. She has kids screaming and cussing, and they don't care if they get in trouble. They aren't allowed to paddle these kids or even do much in the way of punishment that is embarrasing. Children need strict discipline or they turn into these piece of shit "I don't give a fuck" bastards, that take no pride in their work and just try to do what is necessary to get by...and that's only when the stars have aligned just perfectly to give them enough motivation.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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OfflineBleaK
paradox
Registered: 06/24/02
Posts: 1,583
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #3167631 - 09/23/04 12:38 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

since when are schools flawed? they seem to work fine to me.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0795n.asp
http://www.spinninglobe.net


--------------------
"You cannot trust in law, unless you can trust in people. If you can trust in people, you don't need law." -J. Mumma


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3167645 - 09/23/04 12:41 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Public schools and colleges are all just brain washing indocranation machines that are forceing americans into slavery and engraveing lies in them


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[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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Invisiblez@z.com
Libertarian
Registered: 10/13/02
Posts: 2,876
Loc: ATL
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: AhronZombi]
    #3167649 - 09/23/04 12:42 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

AhronZombi said:
Public schools and colleges are all just brain washing indocranation machines that are forceing americans into slavery and engraveing lies in them



Holy shit I agree with you. This is a momentous occasion.


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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: z@z.com]
    #3167663 - 09/23/04 12:44 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

you usually dont?


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[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: z@z.com]
    #3167684 - 09/23/04 12:47 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

Quote:

z@z.com said:
Quote:

AhronZombi said:
Public schools and colleges are all just brain washing indocranation machines that are forceing americans into slavery and engraveing lies in them



Holy shit I agree with you. This is a momentous occasion.



I agree as well - to an extent. There are valuable things taught in public schools and colleges, but there are indeed healthy doses of brainwashing and indoctrination.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineAhronZombi
AhronZombi

Registered: 04/06/04
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NY
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Public schools no place for teachers' kids [Re: Evolving]
    #3167696 - 09/23/04 12:49 AM (13 years, 30 days ago)

i think the lies strongly over take the valuable learning


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[url=http://kratom.tcotu.net Low Priced, High Quality Kratom[/url]


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