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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes
    #3783263 - 02/15/05 02:09 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050215/ap_on_re_us/school_bible_classes


Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes


Tue Feb 15, 9:33 AM ET U.S. National - AP

STAUNTON, Va. - Public elementary schools will continue to allow Bible classes during class time while the local school board conducts a one-year review to determine if criticism of the practice by some parents is valid.

Several hundred people attended the school board meeting Monday, with many standing and applauding the 5-1 decision to begin the review while continuing religious classes, a tradition in Staunton and some other rural Virginia school districts for more than 60 years.

"My conscience tells me this community needs this program, and we need to keep it," board member Angie Whitesell said.

In the Weekday Religious Education program, first-, second- and third-graders go to nearby churches for Bible classes during school hours.

Some parents had asked the board to eliminate or modify the program, saying children who choose not to go are stigmatized and lose valuable class time.

The Supreme Court ruled decades ago that the classes do not violate the separation of church and state because they are held away from school premises.


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InvisibleDNKYD
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #3783272 - 02/15/05 02:12 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Why did they stop teaching morality in school? Why don't we drop these bullshit religious classes, and actually teach the only thing valuable from religion: MORALS.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: DNKYD]
    #3783293 - 02/15/05 02:19 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Whose morals?


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: cb9fl]
    #3783324 - 02/15/05 02:29 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Separation of church and state! even on the educational level.
SCHOOLS ARE FOR TEACHING, CHURCHES FOR PREACHING.
Get that religious shit out of our PUBLIC schools. :mad2:


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: California]
    #3783332 - 02/15/05 02:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Agreed...unless of course it's part of a separate school system. i.e...they have a Catholic School system here that is completely separate from the the Public school system.


--------------------
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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: Rono]
    #3783362 - 02/15/05 02:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

COMPLETELY SEPARATE is fine, but as in this VA case, they are going from a public school to a church ON Public School TIME, and I bet ON PUBLIC SCHOOL MONEY. If those kids ride a Public schoolbus to a church on school time that is wrong.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: California]
    #3783382 - 02/15/05 02:44 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

even on the educational level.

I would think the educational level would be the most important aspect of seperation of church and state.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: cb9fl]
    #3783470 - 02/15/05 03:00 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

"In the Weekday Religious Education program, first-, second- and third-graders go to nearby churches for Bible classes during school hours. "
Great, a school that provides a time and a place for young children to be around Child-Molesting Preachers/Bishops. :frown: :mad2:
"I would think the educational level would be the most important aspect of separation of church and state."
More important than if there was a unification of the church and the military?  That would be scary.


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Offlinecb9fl
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: California]
    #3783725 - 02/15/05 03:50 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My point was that education especially in relation to a child helps form their views on life. If religion is a part of a child's life then his views on the world will most likely be skewed by religious ideas.

Keep religion out of (at least) public education and it may hold a much smaller place in latter society.


--------------------
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide

"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives."


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: cb9fl]
    #3783765 - 02/15/05 03:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Point taken, I agree.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: California]
    #3783825 - 02/15/05 04:18 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Oregon said:
COMPLETELY SEPARATE is fine, but as in this VA case, they are going from a public school to a church ON Public School TIME, and I bet ON PUBLIC SCHOOL MONEY. If those kids ride a Public schoolbus to a church on school time that is wrong.




Its not funded by public money, but by the local churches. It is on school time, but kids have the option to attend or not.

The religious crazies are pushing the line with this one, they actually came up with a pretty sound plan that isn't easy to knock holes into. Pretty much the only argument I've heard against it is, "you are ostracizing the other students", but I think thats very weak.

I won't let their ultimate motive go unnoticed however, it is to fully integrate religion into school, and this is a stepping stone. A finely crafted one too.

One thing that made me sick was seeing the mother of the one child. She pulled the typical, "Why would anyone be against this?", "They are attacking us because we are, christians". As if she still lives with the memory of the lions.

Give me a break.


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: looner2]
    #3784088 - 02/15/05 05:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I saw this on the news this morning. That woman that you mentioned,looner, was sadly misinformed. The News had a short interview of a woman who complained. Her largest complaint was the fact that the students who did not travel to the churches were left with nothing to do. That's horrible and I think the School Board made the right decision by forcing the teachers TO TEACH WHILE IN SESSION.

Because in reality it is only the press that is making this a "Religious" problem. This is a work ethics problem and the problem is the ethics of the teachers that are not teaching.


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: YidakiMan]
    #3784232 - 02/15/05 05:56 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Here's a question, what the hell are 2nd & 3rd graders studying the Bible during school time for? It doesn't exactly seem like a part of early development curriculum. I'm not talking about church & state seperation issues here (which are important), but just that the "three R's" aren't Reading, Writing, and Religion.


(I've always thought the phrase "three R's" is one of the most ironic terms to describe an education.)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: California]
    #3784749 - 02/15/05 07:30 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Churches should provide 80% of America's bussing.

Or would it be wron for a kid to take a church bus to school?


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: looner2]
    #3784783 - 02/15/05 07:35 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Why should parents relenquis control of their children to the state every school day?


All these people want is for their education to be part of their religious life. Why put up any more roadblocks against that then absolutely nessisary.


However, it does sound like the non-christians are getting screwed in this deal.


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InvisibleAdden
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3789186 - 02/16/05 02:23 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

It is sad that I live in a country where this happens. Our education system is a failure, and look what happened to Bush's no minority left behind act.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: Adden]
    #3789245 - 02/16/05 02:45 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmm...I can easily argue this both ways... I haven't thought it through yet, but I see no harm in having "church" classes in school as long as they are optional and open to all churches, including the Satanists and the like.

Really, the other than the drama, the only true harm I see is taking away from academic study time to encourage non-academic study.

I well remember my first grade teacher forcing the class to say a prayer to Jesus every day before lunch. I still, after more than two decades, resent what she forced upon me... but then, I have never been a sheep to follow the lead of others blindly.


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OfflineTwirling
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: Seuss]
    #3790044 - 02/16/05 06:11 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I think the lagest problem with a forced teaching of theology/religion to 2nd graders is that there is no possible way for them to completely grasp the ideas. Outside of drawing sheep with crayons and putting up decorations that say "JESUS MAKES ME BAHHH-EAUTIFUL" I think the concept of salvation through the son of God accepting the "sins of the world" is going to fly over their heads.

I'd really be interested in what the lesson plan is. Perhaps a few veruses from Leviticus?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: Seuss]
    #3790186 - 02/16/05 06:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I have no problem with extra-cirricular religious activities like Bible study groups, but this kind of shit should not go on during regular school hours. If people want to teach religion to their kids, they can do it themselves. Leave the schools out of it.


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InvisibleDark_Star
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Re: Va. School Board OKs Keeping Bible Classes [Re: looner2]
    #3791019 - 02/16/05 08:57 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:

One thing that made me sick was seeing the mother of the one child. She pulled the typical, "Why would anyone be against this?", "They are attacking us because we are, christians". As if she still lives with the memory of the lions.

Give me a break.



Yeah exactly, the christians are the ones doing the attacking, descriminating and persecuting in this country, not the other way around.  :rolleyes:


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