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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive!
    #1524124 - 05/06/03 11:41 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

From: Matt Howes, National Internet Organizer, ACLU
To: ACLU Action Network Members
Date: May 6, 2003

Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive!

In this time of conflict and uncertainty, the right of free speech and
the freedom to dissent is being attacked on all sides. One such
continuing attempt is a proposed constitutional amendment that would
fundamentally alter the First Amendment by giving Congress the power to prohibit
the physical "desecration" of the American flag.

This proposed amendment is part of a larger campaign to chill freedom
of dissent and restrict freedom of expression -- it needs to be stopped
now!

Although our fight against the proposed amendment has made headway in
recent years, the margins of our victories remain precariously thin. It
is critical that we protect the very freedoms that our national symbols
represent.

Take Action! Click here for more information and to take action.
http://www.aclu.org/FreeSpeech/FreeSpeech.cfm?ID=9969&c=50

P.S. A group we work closely with, Veterans Defending the Bill of
Rights, is looking for fellow veterans who are willing to voice their
opposition to the amendment. If you are a veteran and are interested in
joining (membership is free), please sign up at:

http://forms.aclu.org/feedback/feedback.cfm?r=7&ia=1&ii=0

If you also know someone who might be interested in joining Veterans
Defending the Bill of Rights or taking action, please forward this email.
Thanks!


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleRevelation

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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1524153 - 05/06/03 12:03 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

What the fuck is the point of making a law against burning a flag?

Especially when the only thing it could do is provoke more flag burning.

Futile, banal, petty. As much so as the act of burning a flag itself.


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Anonymous

Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1524171 - 05/06/03 12:11 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

this is ridiculous. how do they define 'flag'? is it ok to burn a non-us flag? what about one that kindof looks like a US flag but only has 40 stars or 10 stripes? what about burning any red, white, and blue object?

this is absurd. it'll be a shame if this gets passed.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: ]
    #1524194 - 05/06/03 12:23 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Fortunately, if it does get passed, the Supreme Court will most likely rule it to be unconstitutional. I think they've ruled on similar cases before. This is more about Congressmen wanting to look good than about the flag.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1524210 - 05/06/03 12:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

i mean, burning a flag is a pure expression of dissent. there's really not much more to it.

if you're dissatisfied with the united states government, i can't think of a simpler, more direct, or louder way to express it than to publicly burn a flag.

the message is pure and it gets the point across.

it's ridiculous that they want to outlaw this.

this is absolutely a violation of freedom of expression. fortunately, you're right, it's been struck down before, and if it gets passed, will be struck down again.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Aliv [Re: silversoul7]
    #1524213 - 05/06/03 12:28 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

This is a Constitutional amendment that is being discussed here. If the amendment passes, there's dick all The Supremes can do about it.

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (05/06/03 12:30 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Aliv [Re: Phred]
    #1524228 - 05/06/03 12:34 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Good point. It'll be a sad day for freedom if this passes.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Aliv [Re: Phred]
    #1524290 - 05/06/03 01:00 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

wow. i didn't catch that. what a shame.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Registered: 10/01/02
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1524481 - 05/06/03 02:24 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Thank you again Silversoul, for another 'heads up.' I really appreciate that you bring these things to our attention. Keep up the good work. You are an important contributor to this forum.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: Evolving]
    #1524518 - 05/06/03 02:41 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I do what I can.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1524559 - 05/06/03 02:59 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

A group we work closely with, Veterans Defending the Bill of
Rights, is looking for fellow veterans who are willing to voice their
opposition to the amendment




I'm glad there is a group like this. Anti-flag burning groups alway claim to speak for the people who died "Defending the flag". Who the fuck are these people to speak for the dead?


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OfflineSalvia_B
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1524935 - 05/06/03 05:17 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Wow! I didn't know we had such a problem with burning flags here...
I think we need an amendment that only allows soft toilet paper!  Make some progress! :wink:


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OfflineJohnnyRespect
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: Salvia_B]
    #1525346 - 05/06/03 07:57 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Yea, i'm very American, but by virtue of that, I recognize that some pinko pigs feel the need to burn the American flag to express themselves, and  I firmly believe they have the right to do so.  i'm trying to find this .wmv out there of some sand person soaking an American flag in gas, then lighting it, and his desert sand monkey clothes catch on fire. He gets burned up pretty bad :smile: Thats comedy!  But yea, we definatly need to allow flag burning

Jr


--------------------
As I felt the soft cool mud squish between my toes, I thought, Man, these are not very good shoes!


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: silversoul7]
    #1537406 - 05/10/03 06:53 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Of course I support someones right of expression; in this case flag burning. Just don't use gas or endanger others while you do it.

Oh yeah, I also reserve the right to put my foot in your ass after you do. I may be arrested, but I got a hundred dollar bill that says the judge will let me go with a warning.  :laugh:
 


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: mr freedom]
    #1538052 - 05/11/03 12:13 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

I got a hundred that says I'd 'bust one in your'....before you got you foot out...j/k who cares, if they outlaw flag burning....we just start burning judges....let them outlaw that...no one is left to rule on it....

P#1


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Offlinejimsuzo
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: mr freedom]
    #1538197 - 05/11/03 01:12 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

Oh yeah, I also reserve the right to put my foot in your ass after you do. I may be arrested, but I got a hundred dollar bill that says the judge will let me go with a warning.




Interestingly enough, several years ago the state of Louisiana had a bill put forward by a representative/zealot that would allow LEGAL assault on persons that were engaging in flag burning. The bill ultimately did not pass. I personally thought it was a pretty stupid law that would ultimately lead to would-be assailants keeping a stash of partially-burned flags around to place in their victims hands after beating the shit out of them.

If i want to burn a flag, i should be able to. In fact, I think there's a reasonable chance that I'll do so one day. Be assured that I'll be on the lookout for people wanting to put their foot in my ass.


--------------------
There are roughly nine galaxies for every person alive on the planet today. Each of these galaxies has a billion suns, give or take the odd hundred million


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Offlinemr freedom
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: jimsuzo]
    #1538913 - 05/11/03 01:37 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

Easy folks, it was just a bit of humor. Anyone that knows me knows my stance on violence. I would think that legalizing violence would have been laughed out of committee.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: mr freedom]
    #1539263 - 05/11/03 05:18 PM (14 years, 1 month ago)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

now thats funny...a country that was founded on blood not advocating violence :grin:


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: Oppose the Flag Burning Amendment: Keep Free Speech Alive! [Re: JohnnyRespect]
    #1540214 - 05/12/03 12:32 AM (14 years, 1 month ago)

"Yea, i'm very American, but by virtue of that, I recognize that some pinko pigs feel the need to burn the American flag to express themselves, and I firmly believe they have the right to do so. i'm trying to find this .wmv out there of some sand person soaking an American flag in gas, then lighting it, and his desert sand monkey clothes catch on fire. He gets burned up pretty bad  Thats comedy! But yea, we definatly need to allow flag burning"

i hope that comment was a satire on american brand stupidity. because if it wasnt....man, somebody out there needs to investigate where his/her beliefs originated.

:confused:  :confused:  :confused:  :confused:  :confused: 


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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