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OfflineGabrielKnight
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Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc?
    #3368515 - 11/16/04 01:30 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

N.e.1 know?

When he wrote Alice, did he consume a huge dose and actually spend the day walking around, seeing and intercting with all these things, or was it a milder trip that just inspired him to write the story?

And is it really alleged that he fancied little girls?!


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3368525 - 11/16/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

well at the time the book was written, i dont think lsd was invented yet. i personally heard it was mesc but maybe shrooms too, and of course some opium... thats what the catapilar was smoking


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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OfflineGabrielKnight
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3368528 - 11/16/04 01:33 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

B4 n.e.1 replies, I've just spotted the deliberate mistake. LSD wasn't invented yet!


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OfflineGabrielKnight
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3368534 - 11/16/04 01:34 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Doh, beat me to it!


Mmmmm, O..p..ii.u..rrrrm!


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3368541 - 11/16/04 01:36 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This book was written way before the 1955 Life magazine (1800s) with Wasson's trip information. I don't know when Amanita information began circulating. LSD is obviously far out of the question.

Mescaline? Nah... there has been reported use before that (and obviously natives) But this dude was from England, right? But Aldous Huxley's Doors of Perception was the main eye opener, comparable to Wasson's trip to Mexico.

The little girl thing is somewhat true thing from what I've read. The story was written for one. How much he liked them I don't know. It could be as innocent as Michael Jackson or as terrible as that Mr. Rogers. :smile:

http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/?alice.html

a quick search brought that up, haven't read it


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You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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InvisibleThirdEyeOpening
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3368543 - 11/16/04 01:37 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Whatever he was on, he was fucked up for that story to be crafted. Watched it on my last trip, 1g of copes, just weird.


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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. Im not too sure about the former.      -Einstein

Of course the rules need to be enforced, but the goal of law and order should be to create a just society, not to enforce laws. -Unknown

“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”  -Stephen Roberts


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: danlennon3]
    #3368559 - 11/16/04 01:39 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

now was the disney movie made around when lsd got popular?


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"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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Anonymous

Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3368608 - 11/16/04 01:51 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

liberty caps, laudanum & opium


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InvisibleASliceofPI
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: danlennon3]
    #3368611 - 11/16/04 01:52 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The disney movie was made in the 50's....i think i read somewhere that carroll enjoyed hashish, and i believe the story was written on a boat ride with his young friend....


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OfflineGabrielKnight
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: ASliceofPI]
    #3368626 - 11/16/04 01:56 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

young 'friend' being Alice Liddell - who was allegedly banned by her parents from meeting him any more when she reached her late childhood! I don't think anyone really knows why!


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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3370421 - 11/16/04 08:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

he used opium, for the girl question, I dont know.


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Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


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Offlinetheocean06
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3370697 - 11/16/04 09:00 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

This is interesting:

http://www.alice-in-wonderland.net/?alice.html

Q: Was Carroll on drugs when he wrote the Alice books, or are the books about drugs?

A: No. Carroll did not use drugs while writing the story. The larger part of the story was invented when he was on a boat trip with a friend, the real Alice and her sisters. He invented it while they rowed. The drug rumor was first spread in the 1960's by supporters of the then new LSD subculture. The rumor is believed to have originated from the psychiatrists who introduced LSD into our society.
Some people insist that one has to be on drugs to write such a creative story. But why shouldn't someone have a creative mind of his own? If Carroll was on drugs, the Alice books would probably be a series of rambling, disconnected, surrealist scenarios. But the Alice books are far from random. They contain some very intricate logic problems and very clever puns (not to mention Alice's journey in "Through the Looking-Glass", which follows the moves of a chess game), that could only be the work of a sharp mind in full control of its abilities. Furthermore, you'll find the same style of writing in the magazines he wrote in his youth, his various poems, stories, and other writings, and especially in the letters he wrote. If the Alice books were drug induced, the rest of his voluminous output would seem to suggest he was on drugs 24/7.
There is indeed one part in the book that may describe the use of drugs: the hookah smoking Caterpillar who advises Alice to eat from the mushroom. But with the story Carroll made fun of all aspects of society, and it may be possible that he was just reflecting the age with this part (note that this chapter wasn't even part of the original story, but was added later!). In the Victorian era there were no drug laws like we know them. Opium, cocaine, and laudanum (a painkiller that contained opium) were used for medicinal purposes, and could be obtained from a pharmacist. Mind that LSD was not even invented yet! So in Carroll's days it was not uncommon to experience the effect of being 'high', whether or not accidentally. However, it was definitely not Carroll's intention to write a book about drugs: he wanted to entertain a little girl whom he loved. No evidence has ever been found that linked Carroll to drug use. Even in his diaries, Carroll has never made any reference to the use of drugs.


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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.            - Hendrix :bow:


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Invisiblemjshroomer
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: BanJankri]
    #3371707 - 11/16/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well Alice in Wonderland was a political satire of the English Aristocrats. ANd the story made fun of the Government of England.

mj


Lewis Carroll was also a photographer of children. he had thousands of photos of little children.


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Offlinenerveagent
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3371924 - 11/17/04 12:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

mjshroomer said:
Well Alice in Wonderland was a political satire of the English Aristocrats.  ANd the story made fun of the Government of England.




You beat me to it, everyone seems to think it is about drugs, but mj is correct. One of my English teachers lectured us on this saying "I hate to burst your bubble but...


Quote:

he had thousands of photos of little children.




Now that's another story :lol:


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Offlinegnrm23
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3372958 - 11/17/04 08:22 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

for a great deal of information about the reverend dr samuel dodgeson's works on dear alice, your library or bookstore will have one of the editions ('60, '90, or '99?) of martin gardner's totally excellent _the annotated alice_
www.wwnorton.com/catalog/fall99/alice.htm


~


--------------------
old enough to know better
not old enough to care


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Offlinebutterflydawn
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: gnrm23]
    #3373646 - 11/17/04 12:55 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

he was on opium i believe


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InvisibleKoala Koolio
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: butterflydawn]
    #3373814 - 11/17/04 01:40 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Why does everyone insist that he was on opium? I'm not saying he wasn't, but the Q/A says theres absolutely no evidence of any drug use, including his own journal.

Sounds like a rumor.


--------------------
You're not like the others. You like the same things I do. Wax paper, boiled football leather... dog breath. We're not hitch-hiking anymore, we're riding!


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OfflineBanJankri
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #3374112 - 11/17/04 02:57 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

well disney wouldnt want us to think that the childrens adorable granddaddy was doing some naugthy things, would they?


--------------------
Just let everything flow, just flow right to the center of everything. You gotta turn off your mind and relax, and then just float downstream...


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: mjshroomer]
    #3374198 - 11/17/04 03:16 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah, my dad insists that Alice in Wonderland was written to parody the House of Lords or parlaiment or somesuch.

He says the same thing about Gulliver's Travels. But when I tell him that people have been using marijuana forever and that they've found THC resin in Shakespear's pipes etcetera, he guffaws and changes the subject.


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We have to answer our own prayers


Edited by recalcitrant (11/17/04 03:17 PM)


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Invisiblejux
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Re: Was Lewis Carroll on LSD, Shrooms or A Musc? [Re: GabrielKnight]
    #3374231 - 11/17/04 03:21 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

The real question isn't whether he was on drugs. Oh no. the question is, does it really matter? Lewis Carroll is an excellent writer and I enjoy his work very much. I could care less if he was smoking crack rocks or if he rabidly masterbated to a giant wooden cross every morning, the quality of his work is damned fine.


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