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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: tbone8352]
    #29656630 -

Quote:
I think PF tek is outdated, and beginners can learn just as easy using modern bulk techniques.


:whathesaid:

100% :thumbup:


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The Combo Tek - Easy grow method for newbies and pros alike

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: tbone8352] * 1
    #29656635 -

tbone8352 said:
My confession is that I think PF tek is outdated, and beginners can learn just as easy using modern bulk techniques.

Bulk growing has been streamlined to the point where it's actually easier and more likely to succeed in my opinion, then PF tek. Back in the day that wasn't the case when people were making all kinds of crazy tubs and terrariums to grow their mushrooms in, but now with the unmodified tub method it really doesn't get any easier. There's only one less step and that step is mixing grain into your coir verm mix.

I did start with PF tek because that's what everybody told me but this was all the way back in 2011. People like Bod, have seriously simplified the process for growing cubensis.


:nodofunderstanding:

My guess is that the most appealing things for the uninitiated about pf tek is that you can steam sterilize and doesn't take up much space.


--------------------
“All Fungi are edible.

Some fungi are only edible once.”
― Terry Pratchett


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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: veggie] * 2
    #29656636 -

I think pf has a place.

I have a set of swabs that I couldn’t get to clean up. Just super contaminated everytime i went to agar. After 4 swabs, I took it to BRF to get something to clone


--------------------
Favorite Teks

  ]

Edited by Splittinghairs (08/28/26 12:26 PM)

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: Splittinghairs] * 3
    #29656637 -

:whathesaid:
Agar reading and clean procedures narrow the field too much for a beginner.


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: Splittinghairs] * 1
    #29656640 -

Quote:
I think pf has a place.

I have a swabs that I couldn’t get to clean up. Just super contaminated everytime o went to agar. After 4 swabs took it to BRF to get something to clone


More precise would be BRF has a place. I use BRF at times for certain scenarios. Small difference, but BRF is not PF-Tek. BRF is one thing and the PF-Tek is but one method that utilizes BRF.


--------------------
The Combo Tek - Easy grow method for newbies and pros alike

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: tbone8352] * 5
    #29656643 -

I think it all depends on use-case.

And that PF tek is getting twisted around in a lot of people's minds.

It's most often recommended when people are fighting tooth and nail to avoid working with agar, and/or buying a pressure cooker, etc. Which I guess has fueled this trend of people inoculating PF cakes and then shredding them to spawn to bulk substrates. I just had someone lose their shit on me the the other day, and one of the things they were worked up about was my comment that the jars they were using for "PF tek" didn't make a lot of sense. They then proceeded to go off about how it doesn't matter what they were planning to do with their jars or how easy they'd be to birth. While also claiming 100% adherence to ",PF tek."

The original PF tek remains a pretty solidly reliable way to discretely grow personal amounts of cubensis with a bare minimum of supplies, and closing the loop by taking spore prints and making syringes can make one completely self-sufficient. The only consumable supplies needed are easily obtainable without too much trouble or an online paper trail- brown rice and vermiculite. The scale and modularity of of the operation means someone could probably pull it off while living in a variety of rough/itinerant/outdoor situations.

My own personal experience was:
1. Get the Magic Mushroom Grower's Guide from Loompanics Unlimited.
2. Order a spore print from Fungi Perfecti, as per the guide's instructions (this was wayyy back in the day lol).
3.Completely fail at the agar inoculation, which my college room-mate and I attempted in open air.
4. Forget about growing shrooms for almost a decade.
5. See the Psilocybe Fanaticus ad in High Times or Cannabis Culture (don't recall which). Order the syringe and instruction booklet.
6. Successfully grow shrooms for the first time.
7. See the news about Psilocybe Fanaticus getting raided by the DEA.
8. Revisit the idea of growing shrooms many years later, find the Shroomery, dive headfirst into bulk growing.

What's funny is, I did also start some PF cakes at that time, alongside my ill-advised spores-to-grain inoculations that did fine until they didn't. The cakes took way longer to colonize than my quart jars did, and I stopped thinking about doing PF tek.

But I think one does have to understand the history, and also understand that some people are still living in that historical reality. This shit was HOT back in the day. The DEA did a whole sting operation where they ordered a syringe and instruction booklet, grew out some mushrooms, and tested them. In a press release, a spokesperson described it as "the same as sending someone all the chemicals needed to make meth, with full instructions." They served a warrant with the whole cavalry riding in. PF's account of the incident is around here somewhere, very much worth a read. The DEA agents were sorely disappointed and a little confused when they found such a tiny operation. He basically ended up on their radar because of too many wooks trying to get creative with how they'd receive orders. Leading to random people opening packages they didn't order, and finding "syringes of drugs." Contrast that with the current situation, where there are people on Etsy selling LC syringes. The "for microscopy use only" fig leaf keeps getting smaller and smaller.

Also, the availability of spores has never been higher. I think that's part of the reason people are so blasé about methods like UB which have a massive failure rate. We're here being curmudgeonly about the waste of time and resources, but damn. When my first growing attempt failed, it felt CATASTROPHIC. We only had that one spore print, and weren't about to risk having another one delivered. Also, shortly after that failed attempt, Fungi Perfecti stopped selling spore prints. Seeing that PF ad in a weed magazine wasn't just about the promise of avoiding agar- it was literally the first time I'd seen spores available anywhere in years.

Anyway, I'm glad PF tek is still there in case my circumstances change.

Edited by B Traven (08/28/26 12:31 PM)

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: B Traven] * 6
    #29656649 -

The corners you can cut and get away with on PFtek. For years I was printing into a zip lock, add water, shake, jab with needle, suck out spore juice and knock cakes with a high success rate:cookiemonster:


--------------------
It takes guts to be
gentle and kind

Another way to live

Your ego is your nemesis.
Seek the truth tirelessly,
Even at the cost of your own sanity.
-fiddle_head

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: LadysKnight] * 2
    #29656660 -

I had great success with PF tek my first go around in early 2025. I did it just like the RR video, complete with the SGFC.  I got great results with the sgfc, but then saw a lot of people here dismissing it as outdated and decided to try other fruiting chambers. I did some BRF pucks earlier this summer and they’ve fruited like shit in a water tub setup. I still have my SGFC, so next time I think I’ll bust out some perlite and do it old school. I think if I had not done the SGFC my first time with PF I would have gotten discouraged. Granted, I didn’t ask many questions here so that probably would have helped.

For those of us who got married in the Instant pot era doing grains for 3 hrs in that sucker is just as easy I’d say. Especially if you cheat with vendor LC! :mushroom2::cookiemonster:

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: B Traven] * 5
    #29656669 -

I think timing has a lot to do with it. I started agar to grain because that is all there was, pf-tek came later.

I bought a used PC when I started, which I still use today. Back then PC's were easy to come by. They were an everyday kitchen appliance. Everyone's grandmother had one and as they died off thrift shops became littered with them.

We went through a stretch where people forgot what PCs were and became scared and paranoid about them. They were convinced they would blow up and couldn't come up with a reason to have one if someone saw it. Crazy.

Now, those small instapot things with a PC function are very popular and cheap so no reason for anyone not to have a PC.

Some people think that using agar is somehow advanced and difficult. It's not. I used agar first in 5th grade, in Jr High, and throughout High School. Nowadays anti-science is big in many states and budget cuts in education prevent teaching of agar and other basic science concepts. No wonder folks are intimidated by it.

The traditional agar to grain, the PF-tek, and BRF methods are around to stay. Which one is the beginner method is just a matter of which one you did first.


--------------------
The Combo Tek - Easy grow method for newbies and pros alike

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: veggie]
    #29656680 -

Yeah, I think we would have muddled through our first attempt at agar if we'd had any clue whatsoever about using a SAB, or at least making any sort of attempt to control for contamination. I can't recall exactly what the instructions were in the MMGG, so I don’t know if it was a case of shitty instructions, utter and wanton disregard for sterile technique, or a little of both. I was a teenager at the time, and then for the next decade my housing situation was pretty much in constant turmoil and compromise until around the time I tried PF tek. The best I could do in those years was weed starting seedlings in the basement, then transplanting them to the yard in a spot where I could kind of pretend I didn't know they were there. Nothing was ever even remotely sterile, stable, or safe.

I remember buying Ball half-pint widemouth canning jars for PF tek. Would have been about 25 years ago. I was at some sort of country store/hardware store in the mountains, and the staff member who assisted me said with his Appalachian twang "Nobody cans anymore. But yeah, aisle 5. But...Nobody cans anymore."


--------------------

Edited by B Traven (08/28/26 06:22 PM)

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: B Traven] * 5
    #29656716 -

I confess that I still have never done a full proper PF tek by rolling cakes in a substrate and placing them in a chamber. Even though I wrote a thread on brf pucks and use them a lot for all sorts of things, I agree that they are related, but not the same thing.

I started with agar to grains to unmodified tubs. Made some mistakes, but grew pounds of mushrooms on the first attempt. Not a humble-brag, it was all due to the resources here.

However, I do think that PF Tek still has an important place in cult. It is a great way to get your feet wet and decide if you are interested in taking it further. You can easily do agar to grains successfully on the first go if you are willing to devote the time and resources. But it requires far less time and commitment to get a load of mushrooms by doing strait PF, imho. Or it is a fine way to continue if you do not want to commit to the added effort and expense of plates, agar, PC, proper grain prep, and a myriad of other things.

Lots of things work and have a place in cult. Different people have different objectives and environments. I really don't understand the need to implement one standard or declare an objectively better unilateral process. If what you are doing is working for you, awesome. I do a lot of things that are not best practice, especially for someone just learning to grow. Those things meet my objectives or I wouldn't be doing them. There may be ways to get "better" results depending on how you define better. But I do not feel the need to run down anyone else's methods if they are having success their way.

I do object to advice given without having reliable evidence to back up the claims. If you can't show your work, or need to point to the work of someone else, your advice is not defensible. If you were not there to see exactly what steps were followed by another, you cannot reasonably use their results as evidence of your claims. How do you control the variables of an experiment that you did not participate in?

I may have lost the thread here. Too much coffee again. Happy Friday, everyone.


--------------------
Stoned Gummys | BRF Pucks | Primo Reusable Plates | Easy LI 4 Preserv & Propo
"Psychedelics are powerful substances. Nothing that powerful is completely safe... and nothing completely safe is that powerful!" - Abigail Calder at ALPS 2023
Don't Panic

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: ReverendMyc] * 5
    #29656777 -


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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: pinkpuddles]
    #29656778 -

pinkpuddles said:



Oh puddles you rascal!
:awehigh:


--------------------

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Wanna Play?
Dream Interpretation
GC’s Ayahuasca Recipe
Free Therapy

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: GenesisCorrupted] * 5
    #29656800 -

You can get a PF Tek going for less than $100 and it's far more reliable than shooting spores into a vendor grain bag. If we're being honest, vendor bags are how 99% of people are getting into the hobby now a days.

Between Jars, grain, a used PC, petris, Agar, LME, etc... you're paying a significant amount more than for PF Tek. Not everyone takes this hobby as seriously as we do.

The learning curve is way steeper for bulk than PF Tek. How many plates did it take ya'll to learn what clean mycelium looks like?


--------------------
I've got skills, they don't know where to use me
I'm like the best dressed guy at the nude beach
Nice to meet you!

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: veggie] * 1
    #29656816 -

veggie said:
I think timing has a lot to do with it. I started agar to grain because that is all there was, pf-tek came later.

I bought a used PC when I started, which I still use today. Back then PC's were easy to come by. They were an everyday kitchen appliance. Everyone's grandmother had one and as they died off thrift shops became littered with them.

We went through a stretch where people forgot what PCs were and became scared and paranoid about them. They were convinced they would blow up and couldn't come up with a reason to have one if someone saw it. Crazy.

Now, those small instapot things with a PC function are very popular and cheap so no reason for anyone not to have a PC.

Some people think that using agar is somehow advanced and difficult. It's not. I used agar first in 5th grade, in Jr High, and throughout High School. Nowadays anti-science is big in some states and budget cuts in education prevent teaching of agar and other basic science concepts. No wonder folks are intimidated by it.

The traditional agar to grain, the PF-tek, and BRF methods are around to stay. Which one is the beginner method is just a matter of which one you did first.



Fuck ya we got veggie up in the confessional.  A red letter day folks.


--------------------
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
Visit our cultivation museum
The Hitchhiker's guide Pt. 3

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: BeefExtreme] * 1
    #29656828 -

All this PFtek talk, our boy laid it all out for the cheapskates years ago.


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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: PuffM4gicDr4gon] * 9
    #29656845 -

I enjoy growing cakes, it keeps it a hobby for me and it gives me more than I need. Plus it works for more than cubensis.
I confess I have noticed better results with coir than vermiculite.

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: The Tao]
    #29656858 -

Wait.
So, just, brown rice flour and coir cakes?
That's epic.
And it also begs the question.
I've been meaning to play around with locally sourced replacements for coconut coir. Actually, I'm due to run out of coir shortly, and I'll end up with several quarts of spawn left over. I plan to try spawning them on different substrates from my yard, low-nutrient stuff like old dry leaves from last season. Or maybe try pasteurizing some higher-nutrient materials.

But if you can pull off PF cakes with coir. then it seems like that would be an even easier substitution to make, since everything is sterilized and sealed up until birthing.

Is a "sleeping in the park and living on food stamps" tek just around the corner?

Probably better to work it all out BEFORE I'm sleeping in the park and living on food stamps lol


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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: B Traven] * 1
    #29656883 -

I always thought leaves would work in a pinch.  I doubt youd even need to pasteurize.  Run em through the vitamix and bucket tek em to field cap.


--------------------
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Shroomery
Visit our cultivation museum
The Hitchhiker's guide Pt. 3

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Re: Cultivation confessional [Re: BeefExtreme] * 1
    #29656892 -

last time i checked most of my posting in the pub is copy+paste archi bunker
:archiebunker:


--------------------
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⁂ tail-lights, back-pockets, rearview mirrors ⁂

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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