SkanskKorv said:

I know exactly what you mean and I think that some things should be broken down to the absolute necessities only. Oftenly you find posts made by experienced users who knows this inside and out whilst we others won't understand all the lingo and so on before we're familiar with it but it's easy for experienced people to forget that too many new words and explanations etc makes it harder to keep track of what you've read whilst a good old "noob guide" with just the info you need would be splendid.

What I've done here is to actually use chatgpt and have it explain these things in a simple way so that you understand it to begin with and after that you can extend your own search to get the details down and to correct some of the faulty information from chatgpt and this has worked nicely so far.

I know at least I would love a much simpler explanation of things where you get only the info required and in a simple and broken down way to lessen the confusion of learning 10 new things at once.

I mean... I have learnt a lot since December but I'm still scratching my head when I'm trying to find information about things here and oftenly think " this could've been said with a few sentences rather than several pages".

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If something can't be explained in a few sentences that is fine, and I'll chug down some pages no problem, what I really do not want to do is read +300 pages long scientific papers on the subject unless it's 100% necessary in order to answer the questions I have.

When it comes to cloning I understand and have no problem with the process and have run several clones already, what I am looking for is an understanding of what that clone is giving me, It's seems that a clone is not an isolate, so then my question would be, then what is it, and how big could the diversity in a clone be?

I could be overthinking this, as usual But I'm looking for some answers around how often does a clone culture turn out like the fruit it was cloned from, why and how big is the gene pool from a clone. I read that some people are talking about sectoring to isolate, but that is not a thing right? An isolate is 2 spores, and I don't see how that is possible to achieve by sectoring mycelium on plates..

nocap said:

cloning vs strain isolation

MS: Strain Isolation vs Cloning Question

Ancient posts, but I was reading these.

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Kloakk said:

SkanskKorv said:

I know exactly what you mean and I think that some things should be broken down to the absolute necessities only. Oftenly you find posts made by experienced users who knows this inside and out whilst we others won't understand all the lingo and so on before we're familiar with it but it's easy for experienced people to forget that too many new words and explanations etc makes it harder to keep track of what you've read whilst a good old "noob guide" with just the info you need would be splendid.

What I've done here is to actually use chatgpt and have it explain these things in a simple way so that you understand it to begin with and after that you can extend your own search to get the details down and to correct some of the faulty information from chatgpt and this has worked nicely so far.

I know at least I would love a much simpler explanation of things where you get only the info required and in a simple and broken down way to lessen the confusion of learning 10 new things at once.

I mean... I have learnt a lot since December but I'm still scratching my head when I'm trying to find information about things here and oftenly think " this could've been said with a few sentences rather than several pages".

---

If something can't be explained in a few sentences that is fine, and I'll chug down some pages no problem, what I really do not want to do is read +300 pages long scientific papers on the subject unless it's 100% necessary in order to answer the questions I have.

When it comes to cloning I understand and have no problem with the process and have run several clones already, what I am looking for is an understanding of what that clone is giving me, It's seems that a clone is not an isolate, so then my question would be, then what is it, and how big could the diversity in a clone be?

I could be overthinking this, as usual But I'm looking for some answers around how often does a clone culture turn out like the fruit it was cloned from, why and how big is the gene pool from a clone. I read that some people are talking about sectoring to isolate, but that is not a thing right? An isolate is 2 spores, and I don't see how that is possible to achieve by sectoring mycelium on plates..

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Those are actually very fair questions which I've also asked myself but I haven't started deep diving in it at all since I'm currently trying other new things and my brain would melt...

About about the isolate thing, isn't it also in isolation of genes if you clone properly though? You can isolate spores and you can also isolate genes so perhaps it's two different terms of isolation? God fucking damn it man you made me overthink this shit too and now I need answers because my Brain just started melting again.


Edit: isn't it simply called isolation because you're making sure the genes from only one mushroom gets in there hence you isolate the genes from other mushrooms opposed to isolating two spores from the rest of the spores which is also isolation but in a different matter?

Quote:

SkanskKorv said:God fucking damn it man you made me overthink this shit too and now I need answers because my Brain just started melting again.

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Quote:

Kloakk said:If something can't be explained in a few sentences that is fine, and I'll chug down some pages no problem, what I really do not want to do is read +300 pages long scientific papers on the subject unless it's 100% necessary in order to answer the questions I have.

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nektar61 said:

Quote:

SkanskKorv said:God fucking damn it man you made me overthink this shit too and now I need answers because my Brain just started melting again.

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Quote:

Kloakk said:If something can't be explained in a few sentences that is fine, and I'll chug down some pages no problem, what I really do not want to do is read +300 pages long scientific papers on the subject unless it's 100% necessary in order to answer the questions I have.

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See my above post. And..I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Once in a while you'll see people throwing around scientific phrases about mushroom life cycles, things like dikaryotic, monokaryon, basidia, haploid, and diploid.

I will strongly state that anyone can grow fat canopy tubs of strong shrooms without knowing those words or concepts. It's worth saying because some people see it and get hung up on it. I did early on.

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SkanskKorv said:

Actually my hat is already off for you due to this post. I found it a few months back and it definitely helped me understanding that I was making everything too complicated.
.....I just need to find a balance of what's crucial information and what's excessive.

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SkanskKorv said:

Those are actually very fair questions which I've also asked myself but I haven't started deep diving in it at all since I'm currently trying other new things and my brain would melt...

About about the isolate thing, isn't it also in isolation of genes if you clone properly though? You can isolate spores and you can also isolate genes so perhaps it's two different terms of isolation? God fucking damn it man you made me overthink this shit too and now I need answers because my Brain just started melting again.


Edit: isn't it simply called isolation because you're making sure the genes from only one mushroom gets in there hence you isolate the genes from other mushrooms opposed to isolating two spores from the rest of the spores which is also isolation but in a different matter?

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An isolate is the germination of 2 spores and if I understand correctly that is 1 strain. Isolating(by cloning or sectoring on plates) would still consistent of hundred of strains and therefor not an isolate, but rather a way to decrees the number of strains within a culture, but not even close to an isolate.

If I understand this correctly the only way to get an isolate from a clone is if that fruit was already grown from 1 strain(isolate).

I am starting to wonder if the answers I'm looking for haven't been answered, and as Nektar said, not even relevant. And I could accept that if it turns out there really isn't an easy answer. If it is impossible to know if a clone consists of hundred of strains or ten, then a lot of my questions are meaningless

Another thing is that if a certain morphology only will present itself under very similar conditions as the clone which it was cloned from, it all becomes a little more complicated and might not be worth it.

And I'm sorry, I should have moved this to the cultivation general discussion thread it seems

Wedgie said:

My PC pressure cooker is giving still working but I suspect the gasket
needs replacing, the gasket possibly needs oiling? When it reaches 15 psi
the steam releasing feels like "dry" if that makes sense not hot wet
steam.

Not sure of the model either, any advice? Replace the gasket ring?
I think it's Presto?

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SkanskKorv said:

@Kloakk:

Wait... So cloning a mushroom doesn't guarantee genes even if you make multiple transfers? I thought that's the reason you make clones from mushroom tissue so why do you even clone a mushroom if this doesn't isolate the genes? Or does it perhaps isolate some of the genes? Wouldn't you thin the genes out by making more transfers?

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It does isolate genes, but not just the genes you see in the cloned fruit. Let's say you start from spores, there will be hundred of thousands, if not more, strains growing on that T0 plate and you could start isolating(to narrow down the number of strains) by doing tiny transfers to new plates, there would still be hundred thousands of strains, but less in your T1 then in your T0, most likely. An isolate is not something we can achieve by isolating sectors on plates or by cloning, because an isolate is 1 strain(2 spores).

With a clone it seems you could drastically reduce the amount of strains within a culture, but it could still be in the hundreds. And that is why I had some questions about cloning. I got some real good help and answers in PM's and it seems most of my questions is not relevant on the level of cultivation I'm at. What I mean is that there is a way to answer my questions with the right tools, but I don't have that kind of money, and even if I did, it wouldn't guarantee that I get the morphology or traits I'm looking for, just explain why I didn't get them, if that makes sense.

Like, me knowing the molecular structure of water would not help me if I'm drowning kind of thing

Cloning is still a real great method for getting the traits you are looking for and most of the time there should be a lot of similarities between the cloned fruit and the clone culture, it's just not perfect.

I have come to terms with just cloning what I like and always keep that original clone culture in a master and go from there when I want/need to expand so it doesn't "age out" because of to many cell divisions, looks like a further understanding will just explain them, which could be interesting for sure, but won't help me make beautiful mushrooms.

SkanskKorv said:

@nektar:

Thanks again man, I keep going back to reading these, especially the hitchhiker's guide but I still tend to overcomplicate things.


@Kloakk:

Wait... So cloning a mushroom doesn't guarantee genes even if you make multiple transfers? I thought that's the reason you make clones from mushroom tissue so why do you even clone a mushroom if this doesn't isolate the genes? Or does it perhaps isolate some of the genes? Wouldn't you thin the genes out by making more transfers?

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nektar61 said:

Another suggestion that would help if Ythan would institute it is to not have 15 and 20 year old threads come up as "Similar Threads" below every single thread.

I think that's where a lot of people get sidetracked, start reading, and don't even notice the date or the s"this is an old thread" header.

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Kloakk said:

An isolate is the germination of 2 spores and if I understand correctly that is 1 strain. Isolating(by cloning or sectoring on plates) would still consistent of hundred of strains and therefor not an isolate, but rather a way to decrees the number of strains within a culture, but not even close to an isolate.

If I understand this correctly the only way to get an isolate from a clone is if that fruit was already grown from 1 strain(isolate).

I am starting to wonder if the answers I'm looking for haven't been answered, and as Nektar said, not even relevant. And I could accept that if it turns out there really isn't an easy answer. If it is impossible to know if a clone consists of hundred of strains or ten, then a lot of my questions are meaningless

Another thing is that if a certain morphology only will present itself under very similar conditions as the clone which it was cloned from, it all becomes a little more complicated and might not be worth it.

And I'm sorry, I should have moved this to the cultivation general discussion thread it seems

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This is my understanding. We are simply narrowing the gene pool with transfers and cloning.  No reasonable way to have a count of strains involved, and to me at least, it doesn’t matter too much beyond that.

Environment also plays a role in what traits are expressed, so inconsistencies there will only further muddy the waters.

Point is: have fun and grow sick canopies!