LadysKnight said:

I also do Fooman WBS. The only difference is I rinse before and after the hot soak/simmer. But this is mainly to prevent clumping.
Mold dies at fairly low temps. So if the grains are being under hydrated and not fully sterilized, you would see bacterial signs in your jars so they could pave the way for the mold after spawning.
I would not jump to a completely different grain as the first variable. Grain prep has a learning curve and it will just complicate the process of elimination. But it could be helpful to try a different source of wbs.

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Kloakk said:

Mr Piggy said:

Proper grain prep would completely eliminate trich or any other contamination in the jars. I honestly think it is something in the grain prep going on here, like the grains not being properly hydrated all the way through. 

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I totally agree and it might as well be the case. I just suggest to change grain for a jar or two to eliminate the grains. The cases I came across where both people with 100+ tubs/shoebox and they should have good grain prep and they also said they revisited both grain prep and increased PC time, but said the grains where just to "dirty".. I have no clue honestly, but why would someone with 100+ grows suddenly not be able to grow anything and then replace grain and be good?

Why would dry grains cause trich tho? I understand if they weren't hydrated at all, but are there endospores inside the endosperm of grains?

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Mr Piggy said:

I am once again begging beginners to select grains at random before putting in jars and cutting them in half with a sharp knife to see if they are hydrated through to the middle. 

Help yourself develop an eye for what results in hydrated grain.  I have made the mistake of not fully hydrating grain in the past and I got the green monster.

Don't think for a second because I woke up with a TC badge one day that I haven't made all the mistakes.

Silly confession?  The first time I did PF TEK I did it full nude right out of the shower because I read online somewhere that it was the best way to ensure no contams.  So that batch triched out anyway and my ex wife and roommate never let me forget I was dripping with sweat and nervous as hell naked at the kitchen table.

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AspectOfTheCreator said:

LadysKnight said:

I also do Fooman WBS. The only difference is I rinse before and after the hot soak/simmer. But this is mainly to prevent clumping.
Mold dies at fairly low temps. So if the grains are being under hydrated and not fully sterilized, you would see bacterial signs in your jars so they could pave the way for the mold after spawning.
I would not jump to a completely different grain as the first variable. Grain prep has a learning curve and it will just complicate the process of elimination. But it could be helpful to try a different source of wbs.

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Do you use pennington brand wbs?

Another thing of note is that its always green trich that ruins my grows. I dont even know what other contam looks like.

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LadysKnight said:

I also do Fooman WBS. The only difference is I rinse before and after the hot soak/simmer. But this is mainly to prevent clumping.
Mold dies at fairly low temps. So if the grains are being under hydrated and not fully sterilized, you would see bacterial signs in your jars so they could pave the way for the mold after spawning.
I would not jump to a completely different grain as the first variable. Grain prep has a learning curve and it will just complicate the process of elimination. But it could be helpful to try a different source of wbs.

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Mr Piggy said:

I am once again begging beginners to select grains at random before putting in jars and cutting them in half with a sharp knife to see if they are hydrated through to the middle. 

Help yourself develop an eye for what results in hydrated grain.  I have made the mistake of not fully hydrating grain in the past and I got the green monster.

Don't think for a second because I woke up with a TC badge one day that I haven't made all the mistakes.

Silly confession?  The first time I did PF TEK I did it full nude right out of the shower because I read online somewhere that it was the best way to ensure no contams.  So that batch triched out anyway and my ex wife and roommate never let me forget I was dripping with sweat and nervous as hell naked at the kitchen table.

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Stipe-n Cap said:

The following picture serves to illustrate the obvious difference in size between the 24 hour soak and some wheat that was properly hydrated via a 20 min boil:



As you can see there is a significant difference in colour and size.

Now time to cut the boiled grain open to view the interior side by side:



There is now a very obvious difference between the boiled grain on the left, and the soaked grain on the right. The soaked grain has a veneer of hydration surrounding the white starchy core while the boiled grain has a clear center and is fully/properly hydrated.

Although I believe its possible to grow on soaked wheat or other large cereal grains,  the soak method does not fully hydrate the  kernel.

Due to the density of the larger cereal grains like wheat, oats, rye, etc, the core needs to be fully hydrated to efficiently transfer the energy required to properly sterilize the grain. Improper hydration could result in incomplete sterilization; proper water content in the grain increases conductivity.

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smalltalk_canceled said:

LadysKnight said:

I also do Fooman WBS. The only difference is I rinse before and after the hot soak/simmer. But this is mainly to prevent clumping.
Mold dies at fairly low temps. So if the grains are being under hydrated and not fully sterilized, you would see bacterial signs in your jars so they could pave the way for the mold after spawning.
I would not jump to a completely different grain as the first variable. Grain prep has a learning curve and it will just complicate the process of elimination. But it could be helpful to try a different source of wbs.

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How the hell do you control for this? How is under hydration causing more bacteria

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CaptainPuffy said:

I'm in a similar boat as described above. Trich every single time. The only problem is that I can't find rye locally and millet is about $1 a lb here. I use oats because they're plentiful and cheap.

I'll typically boil until I see several burst grains after a thurough washing. Everything I've read sounds as if that's the way to do it.

Having improperly hydrated grains should present itself during spawn phase, correct? The grains don't get hydrated enough to sterilize and something grows? Is my logic right here?

This is a Pic of my last round of grain from a month ish ago:

https://files.shroomery.org/files/24-42/894933955-1000001235.jpg

I'll post more pictures to my journal the next time I make grain.

Right now, I'm focusing on a clean agar culture as my primary source of contamination, but with as much failure as I'm getting I don't want to rule anything out.

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Tell me about it, the only suitable grains for mushroom cultivation I can get is oats at $22 for 25kg(55lbs). I rinse, then boil for about 25-35 minutes. Only a few burst grains(that I will pick out and throw in the bin while drying). I always check random grains to see if they are fully hydrated. Then I dry them for 3-4 hours with a fan and occasionally move them around until they are dry to the touch, then check again If random grains are fully hydrated.

If all checks out I load to jars and PC for 2 hours. When cooled load SAB and transfer half 60mm agar plate to 1 quart unmodified jars. I don't use the edges of the plate cuz I'm anal like that

Now, it's only been 2 days and I really can't tell if my jars look good or not and it's probably to early to say even if I knew what to look for, but here are some pictures.





I'm sure a lot of contamination's will present them self in the jar, but I also think many of them are just establishing a foothold while waiting for better living conditions. FAE seems to be one of those triggers, could trich be one of them? That is why I asked Mr. Piggy if endospores are present inside grains as well as outside, I don't know. Or maybe under-hydrated grains would cause even the surface of grains sitting in the middle of the jar to never reach temperatures killing endospores?

Your grains look hydrated, but I have minimal experience. All I have been doing the last to months is agar and getting comfortable with working with the SAB and probably shouldn't even engage in many of the topics I do, but I really want to learn and do things right and avoid as many fall pits as possible for a beginner like myself, and most of my questions comes randomly while reading on here.

Mr Piggy said:

Silly confession?  The first time I did PF TEK I did it full nude right out of the shower because I read online somewhere that it was the best way to ensure no contams.  So that batch triched out anyway and my ex wife and roommate never let me forget I was dripping with sweat and nervous as hell naked at the kitchen table.

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AspectOfTheCreator said:

I tried this with wbs but the grains all ended up burst before the very last bit in the middle was no longer white. When all the spawn failed right around pinning time I figured it was for that reason. What do you suggest? I was erring on the side of my grain prep being the issue.

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LadysKnight said:

smalltalk_canceled said:

LadysKnight said:

I also do Fooman WBS. The only difference is I rinse before and after the hot soak/simmer. But this is mainly to prevent clumping.
Mold dies at fairly low temps. So if the grains are being under hydrated and not fully sterilized, you would see bacterial signs in your jars so they could pave the way for the mold after spawning.
I would not jump to a completely different grain as the first variable. Grain prep has a learning curve and it will just complicate the process of elimination. But it could be helpful to try a different source of wbs.

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How the hell do you control for this? How is under hydration causing more bacteria

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Under hydrating won't cause bacteria, but the pc cycle won't be able to kill the bacteria if it's dry, this the necessity of hydrating grains. Mold is dead at low 100's ⁰f.

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smalltalk_canceled said:

Oh god ive allowed muh tomfuckery to fuck my grain pep.

LadysKnight said:

smalltalk_canceled said:

LadysKnight said:

I also do Fooman WBS. The only difference is I rinse before and after the hot soak/simmer. But this is mainly to prevent clumping.
Mold dies at fairly low temps. So if the grains are being under hydrated and not fully sterilized, you would see bacterial signs in your jars so they could pave the way for the mold after spawning.
I would not jump to a completely different grain as the first variable. Grain prep has a learning curve and it will just complicate the process of elimination. But it could be helpful to try a different source of wbs.

---

How the hell do you control for this? How is under hydration causing more bacteria

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Under hydrating won't cause bacteria, but the pc cycle won't be able to kill the bacteria if it's dry, this the necessity of hydrating grains. Mold is dead at low 100's ⁰f.

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yeah but i need to understand how

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smalltalk_canceled said:

yeah but i need to understand how

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Quote:

Due to the density of the larger cereal grains like wheat, oats, rye, etc, the core needs to be fully hydrated to efficiently transfer the energy required to properly sterilize the grain. Improper hydration could result in incomplete sterilization; proper water content in the grain increases conductivity.

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Mr Piggy said:

  The first time I did PF TEK I did it full nude right out of the shower 

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