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Invisiblezee_werp
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The silicon chip - invented on LSD?
    #2789596 - 06/13/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hey peoples...

I'm not sure if this is the best forum to post this in but hopefully some of you guys might be able to help me out here.

Talking to a friend the other day about computers, he was telling me the story of how the person / people who developed the silicon chip (IBM 'thinktanks' maybe?) were using LSD as their main way of figuring out just how to do this. I think the main development was part of the 'space race' so this mid-late 60's does fit with a massive amount of worldwide LSD use by intillectuals. Anyway he said that the guy got a prize of some description for his contribution to the development of the silicon chip, and when he was giving his speech he said how he owed a lot of what he'd found to LSD. Apparently the scientific / technology community sort of shunned him after that for being too blatent.

Anyway I was intrigued about this story as I've heard mentions of LSD being involved in the development of computers and the internet from various people, so I did some google searching. I tried typing in stuff like 'history of the silicon chip' or 'microchip LSD' etc. and I didn't manage to find anything that told this story (I didn't to THAT major of a search though).

I was wondering if this has been covered up in some way or if it simply didn't happen at all, or if I just didn't search well enough...can anyone verify this story?

I did find a site or two about Frank Ogden (http://www.drtomorrow.com/feature/vancourier.html) who was apparently the creator of the worlds first 'think tank' and has a 'degree in LSD' (rather than a PhD) and he was involved with the whole microchip thing. But that was about the extent of what I could find. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the major technological developments of the past 50 years or so have been psychedelic influenced, and thats why I'm trying to find out more about this.

I guess on a spirituality / philosophy level such a thing could put a new slant on just where this technology is taking us. Just take a look at some of the new biotechnology thats coming up these days. Living microchips, etc, I think we are heading for something major here. Are these technological gurus perhaps psychedelic shamans of some different description?


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2789721 - 06/13/04 12:54 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Didn't find anything confirming that.





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OfflineAldous
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2790130 - 06/13/04 05:01 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Excerpt from a Horizon documentary aired by the BBC in 1996 or 97; title: "Psychedelic science"

"NARRATOR:
There have long been rumours connecting the birth of the American computer industry with psychedelic drug use. Founding member of Microsoft, Bob Wallis, is one of the first to speak openly on the subject.
BOB WALLIS:
I think the success is Silicon Valley in the early personal computer industry had a lot to do with the people using psychedelic stand. The Humber computer club was the real core of the start of the personal computer industry outside of Microsoft and many of the people there were involved in psychedelics. I think it was opening up their minds. The big quandary for software companies was getting into the marketplace, finding shelf-space, but there was a new way of doing that I thought of called shareware, and I think the concept was very unusual and I think the concept came, to some extent, from my psychedelic experience. In shareware you give away the software and then you encourage people to pay for it and even though a low percentage of people might pay for it, so many people use it that the percentage return back is normally pretty good, so that worked, that worked pretty well.
NARRATOR:
Shareware revolutionised the distribution of software and provided Bob Wallis with sufficient means to spend time pursuing his own informal psychedelic research.
BOB WALLIS:
I think psychedelics help you in general go beyond the normal way of doing things and to really open up your mind to more possibilities that maybe seem obvious in retrospect but you'd never think of if you were going along in the regular way of doing things.
"

This seems to substantiate the first part of your post, about the computer industry.

As for scientific discoveries ("I honestly wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the major technological developments of the past 50 years or so have been psychedelic influenced"), this is another excerpt from the same documentary:

"HUMPHREY OSMOND:
I think it's very definitely time to resume a broad kind of research in creativity and I think that the psychedelics would be one very useful tool in that. One of the factors that's very important here is the, the openness of a group of people who's becoming more and more numerous all the time who have had experiences of psychedelic problem-solving.
MAN:
Dr Kary Mullis, I'll now ask you to receive the Nobel Prize from the hands of His Majesty the King.
NARRATOR:
Biogeneticist Dr Kary Mullis had won the Nobel Prize for inventing PCR, a revolutionary technique for multiplying tiny amounts of DNA for use in genetic research, a creative breakthrough he claims came from psychedelic drug use.
DR KARY MULLIS:
PCR's another place where I was down there with the molecules when I discovered it and I wasn't stoned on LSD, but my mind by then had learned how to get down there. I could sit on a DNA molecule and watch the go by and I didn't feel dumb about that, I felt I could, I mean that's just the way I think is I put myself in all different kind of spots and I've learned that partially I would think, and this is again my opinion, through psychedelic drugs. If you have to think of bizarre things PCR was a bizarre thing. It changed an entire generation of molecular biologists in terms of how they thought about DNA. It scared a lot of people when they saw it and they said that'll never work, it'll never work 'cos they didn't like the answer, which was if it does it's going to change my life. I said yeah, it'll change my life and make me a Nobel Prize winner and I can deal with that. You know my life is one long thing and I don't know what, I don't do experiments often, you know in big things like what if I had not taken LSD ever would I have still been in PCR? I don't know, I doubt it, I seriously doubt it.
"

This thing about the Nobel prize winner has been on the Shroomery boards before.

Very good documentary, by the way. Trippy guys there at the Beeb.


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Aldous]
    #2791388 - 06/14/04 01:58 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Wow! Cool info. I'm gonna look more into these people mentioned here.
Thanks!


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791419 - 06/14/04 02:23 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Very easy to mix cause and effect. If it was the drugs and not innate creative genius plus education, then why is The Shroomery not a flower bed of patentable ideas?


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The proof is in the pudding.


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OfflineSpecialEd
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #2791437 - 06/14/04 02:33 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

why is The Shroomery not a flower bed of patentable ideas?




I'm working on some cool ideas that I hope to patent some day. Oh yeah, and I'm getting closer to starting a business that's gonna change the world.


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Offlinewrong
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2791578 - 06/14/04 04:28 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

and im stupid, whats your point


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Swami] * 1
    #2791606 - 06/14/04 05:14 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Well swami, obviously the psychedelic influence was not the sole thing which allowed them to think of these ideas...its not like one day they were a deadbeat dumbass and then they ate a tab suddenly they're microchip / DNA gurus. It does however appear to be the case that the psychedelics catalysed these already intelligent minds to think more laterally, think 'outside the square', to use a cliche. I think that psychedelics have greatly sped up a lot of developments in the human race, developments going back thousands of years, just look at Terence McKennas theory on language for one possibility of that.

And as for the shroomery being a flowerbed of patentable ideas, well it probably is! There are definatley a lot of really creative, intelligent and generally 'on-to-it' people here, and I'm sure a lot of us will (or have already) go on to a successful lifestyle / career.

I myself am a university student, studying psychology, and I can say for certain that my use of psychedelics has stimulated (not to mention initiated) my interest in the field, and tripping has greatly increased my ability to understand the concepts which are introduced to us. Have you heard the quote, that "Psychedelics are to psychology, what the telescope is to astronomy"...it's so true.

And looking at other students I know who do psychedelics, most of them come up with some great ideas / applications for their own specific fields.

There is no doubt that there is a big use for psychedelic experience within nearly any given professional or academic field, however its clearly not necessarily gonna work for everyone who tries.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791625 - 06/14/04 05:42 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

As untold numbers of inventors has ZERO psychedelic influence, from Da Vinci, Galileo, Franklin, Einstein, Fermi, Newton, Hubble, Edison and so forth, how does one pick one small event from a person's life and point to it with a certain "Aha!" and claim THAT was the catalyst?

There are definatley a lot of really creative, intelligent and generally 'on-to-it' people here, and I'm sure a lot of us will (or have already) go on to a successful lifestyle / career.
True enough, but once again, what came first? The curious and creative mind that decided to try psychedelics or the drug leading towards such creativity?

I find it funny that most here would dismiss the cause-and-effect evidence claimed by drug warriors between marijuana and hard drugs (the stepping-stone theory), but will use a similar (though better-disguised) argument between psychedelics and creativity.

Controlled studies using LSD on art and music showed no creative genius whatsoever, but the trippers THOUGHT that their works were of a higher caliber. Better appreciation did not equal quality.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (06/14/04 07:53 AM)


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #2791686 - 06/14/04 07:27 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

True, there have been a lot of inventers who have not used psychedelics, and their inventions have been pretty cool too. I would point out though that use of illegal substances is somewhat taboo, and I am sure that there will be some people out there who have won nobel prizes etc. who haven't had the courage to admit their involvement with psychedelics.

However you're suggesting dismissing the causal link between psychedelics and peoples inginuity etc., well I would suggest you read that article that Aldous posted again... here are some quotes coming from people who undoubtebly know a little more about their own acheivements / fields than you do...

"I think the success is Silicon Valley in the early personal computer industry had a lot to do with the people using psychedelic stand. "

"You know in big things like what if I had not taken LSD ever would I have still been in PCR? I don't know, I doubt it, I seriously doubt it."

I know you are sort of the S&P resident sceptic and it is good that you point out the possible biases, but I think it would be equally if not more naive to say that psychedelics haven't influenced any professionals / artists / leaders etc. in a good way.

As for "Truen enough, but once again, what came first? The curious and creative mind that decided to try psychedelics or the drug leasing towards such creativity?"...I would say truen enough to that too. I have always been a creative person myself and a lot of others I know have too, before they started using psychedelics. And it will have partially been this fact which made us the sort of people who gain a lot from a trip. I'm not trying to argue that psychedelics CAUSED peoples discoveries / art works/ etc. but what I think is a more appropriate term is that psychedelics could act as an ENHANCER of any given intellectual pursuit.

Your mention of the "curious and creative mind that decided to try psychedelics" is interesting. I am in the process of doing some pilot work into a study on what factors predispose people to become trippers (i.e. have a good reaction to psychedelics and continue to use them as a part of their life) I am looking at family history (were close or distant relatives trippers?), style of upbringing, experiences at school etc., social and political climates, education level, religious background etc.


Edited by zee_werp (06/14/04 10:07 AM)


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791702 - 06/14/04 08:00 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"I think... "

"I don't know..."

"...but I think..."


Sorry, but opinions are not evidence of causation.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #2791793 - 06/14/04 10:16 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Jee Swami, you push a 'hard line', haha. Of course opinions are not evidence of causation. But, with these types of stories being reported by people, I think it is AT LEAST grounds for further research, and consideration of the possibility, wouldn't you agree? Not that I ever claimed psychedelics were the cause of anything anyway.

Also, could you please either provide a reference, or explain to me how one could do a controlled study to measure a) creative genius of people under the influence of LSD, and b) the 'calibre' / quality of any given art work?

Just take a look at your other post on alien communication. How could a person not under the influence of LSD be able to comment in any 'official' way about the quality of an LSD users artwork or ideas, or any persons artwork ideas for that matter?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791827 - 06/14/04 10:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Jee Swami, you push a 'hard line'
I push a "reality" line.

But, with these types of stories being reported by people, I think it is AT LEAST grounds for further research, and consideration of the possibility, wouldn't you agree?
Stories may be a launching pad for research, but in and of themselves mean very little. For the record, I lived and worked in Silicon Valley for 18 years through much of the heyday of the computer revolution in varied capacities. I saw no correlation between drug usage and inventiveness in my own life nor those of my compatriots.

How could a person not under the influence of LSD be able to comment in any 'official' way about the quality of an LSD users artwork or ideas, or any persons artwork ideas for that matter?
It is not difficult. Some people claimed to make awesome artwork under LSD. Work submitted to an independent panel who were unaware of which picture were which rated the LSD artwork to be inferior.

Does that mean that it cannot be a catalyst? No, but there is no contrary evidence. Growing up in the 60s, I have seen tons of burnouts though. Why do you think there are only a few geezers here? The ones that remain were very moderate (or learned to be moderate) in their usage.

This forum accomplishes little other than being a social gabfest. Perhaps you would like to set up and promote a real-world test of your hypothesis.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #2791853 - 06/14/04 11:08 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

About the artwork - OK so what if the 'points of reference' that you speak of were changed while under the influence of LSD. Are you saying if we showed an 'independant panel' (who were the 'judges' anyway? I would really like a reference to this study you're talking about) anyway if we showed them some artwork by some alien race who had different cognitive functionings to us but were infact more intilectually advanced, but the art looked like shit, would that be conclusive that the art sucked in an objective way?

Pretty much I'm saying I don't buy that 'study' at all until you can either explain or point me in the direction of an explination of an objective measurement for the quality of a piece of art.

And about the burnouts, I was thinking that myself. While some people thrive under the psychedelic influence, there have definatley been other people who maybe could have gone on to do something great but ended up in a psych ward or just generally a bum. So it could work both ways.

And infact I would indeed like to set up my own real-world test for 'my hypothesis' (haha, this has come far from seeing if the silicon chip was invented while on LSD!). At the moment I'm churning over a lot of ideas for research involving the effect of psychedelics on individuals and society. Theres a lot of obstacles though...money, ethics, social climate, taboo's, bla bla bla, its a lot to wade through. There are possibilities though and I'm searching for something workable.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791866 - 06/14/04 11:15 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

but the art looked like shit, would that be conclusive that the art sucked in an objective way?
Was watching "The Last Comic Standing" last night. One comedian who was NOT chose to go to the next round whined that his set was the best. He did not even realize how ridiculous he sounded as a comic who only amuses himself better find another line of work. Likewise art that does not communicate to others, does not have much value now does it?

Pretty much I'm saying I don't buy that 'study'
Then don't be lazy, define your own study with your own guidelines. With all of the "creative genius" here, I see thousands of posts with most everyone expecting everything to be handed to them. Life and learning is NOT about passivity.

Theres a lot of obstacles though...money, ethics, social climate, taboo's, bla bla bla, its a lot to wade through.
Bullshit! People here post artwork in the Music, Art & Literature forum all the time. Use them in a double-blind and cost-free test.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2791994 - 06/14/04 12:19 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Don't fool yourself into thinking that hallucinogens are responsible for the major tech acheivements in computing. LSD was popular at the time that these innovations came about so it is natural to say that many young, forward thinking engineers used it at one time or another. It is well known that Steve Jobs with Apple prefered to hire LSD users as programmers, but that was just a sign of the times. The effects of hallucinogens on the development of our civilization is much more profound than this.


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OfflineCleverName
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2793306 - 06/14/04 09:08 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

"It is well known that Steve Jobs with Apple prefered to hire LSD users as programmers..."

can you give some sources, please?


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #2793360 - 06/14/04 11:59 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I was good buddies with his counter-part Steve Wozniak. Never saw him take a drink nor puff a joint. Perhaps as a father, he was beyond that, but never knew him to be intoxicated on anything. BTW, he was the engineering genius behind Apple, Jobs was the marketing guru.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Invisiblezee_werp
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: Swami]
    #2793589 - 06/15/04 01:29 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I don't see why you guys are thinking that I'm claiming that psychedelics caused anything, I have clearly said multiple times in this thread that I am not trying to claim a causal link here!

I wasn't fooling myself into thinking anything. Thats why I made this post. Because I wasn't going to instantly believe this story that my friend told me.

And as I said before, it is just as naive of you sceptics to write off the influence of psychedelics on technological advancement as it is for someone to beleive that there is definatley a causal link.

And Swami I don't see why you are calling me lazy, I am not expecting anything to be spoon fed to me, and I AM getting off my ass and doing research myself. What I meant by the obstacles blocking psychedelic research is how it is now illegal to give people psychedelics, etc. and I wasn't talking about the art thing I was talking about the technology thing, so it would cost a lot to say set up a couple of 'think tanks' one with trippers one with sobers, leave them in there for a couple of years and see what they come up with...and then there would be the control of it etc. of course there is always room for underground research.

I think it would be interesting to compare the ratings of a panel of 'sober' people vs. a panel of people tripping on psychedelics in judging the psychedelic art.

Also I would point out you STILL haven't provided a reference for that study you mentioned or even pointed me in the right direction. If I was going to do my own little study I think it would be beneficial for me to check out that other one first. So I would really appreciate a reference for that one.


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: The silicon chip - invented on LSD? [Re: zee_werp]
    #2793612 - 06/15/04 01:37 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I am not expecting anything to be spoon fed to me, and I AM getting off my ass and doing research myself.
Good!

What I meant by the obstacles blocking psychedelic research is how it is now illegal to give people psychedelics, etc. and I wasn't talking about the art thing I was talking about the technology thing, so it would cost a lot to say set up a couple of 'think tanks' one with trippers one with sobers, leave them in there for a couple of years and see what they come up with...and then there would be the control of it etc. of course there is always room for underground research.
Dream big, but start small. Do what is possible and attainable first.

So I would really appreciate a reference for that one.
I was side-stepping because I do not have one. I have read many thousands of books and tens of thousands of articles. While I remember the substance on many, I do not always remember the who, what & where. That particular snippet was probably from a magazine (Psychology Today?) about 15-20 years ago - sorry.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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