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Swami Truth Challenge
    #2775179 -

Spirituality is NOT about aliens, drugs, pretty colors & patterns, praying nor meditation. It is about being as authentic a human being as you can be.

One powerful measure of where you are is in what you speak. I contend that all lies (please spare me the million possible scenarios where lying can be rationalized) are tools to keep us stuck in ego. Bragging, distortion, exaggeration, deception and outright falsehoods are tricks to bolster and protect the ego and abdicate responsibility.

In this challenge (should you accept the terms), you must monitor everything that comes forth from your mouth or pen or keyboard for one week. Note even the slightest pull to enhance your "heroic" deeds and excuse your failings.

Telling the truth does not mean exposing the world to every single thought that is running through your head at the moment (like in a bad comedy).

Next week we will get together again to honestly see how we did.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

Edited by Swami (06/08/04 05:45 PM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2775508 -

I'm up for taking the pep... err swami challenge. I came to a similar realization a while ago, that there is absolutely nothing bad, but rather our relative perception interprets things that way. There is no reason to try and make yourself look good or be wealthy, as in the end we will just die, leaving behind these desires of our ego. Now I mean I've always rationalized things and thought that nothing bad really exists, but this realization as well as others have been much more direct and have caused me to change my way of living and my perception of things. Honestly, I haven't been sad or angry in like 6 months, for there's no reason to be. This is even including hearing my mom's cancer diagonosis, :/.

But I'll take you up on your challenge and let you know how it goes. Already as it is, I put very little emphasis on personal gain or pride, but there is always some inherit human pride, a creation of the ego, which causes us to evolve and expand, constantly trying to compete with our surroundings. This isn't good, but it isn't bad really either. It just is :smile:

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2775606 -

Quote:
Swami said:
Spirituality is NOT about aliens, drugs, pretty colors & patterns, praying nor meditation. It is about being as authentic a human being as you can be.



:thumbup:

"It seems to me, spirituality is a very here and now matter.  One should..visit the sick & imprisoned, clothe the naked, bury the dead, care for orphans, feed the hungry..that's what the spiritual life is about.  It's very down to earth; straight forward."
~Terence McKenna


--------------------
Pot cures cancer.  Tell your friends.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2775836 -

Indeed. We are all in this together. Distance and seperateness are a real illusion to overcome. Intelligence was gifted to us and along with it compassion. Its too bad the world fails to see both qualities completely.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.

Edited by psyka (06/08/04 07:49 PM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: deff]
    #2775854 -

feelings and emotions are human. lack of them may be harmful. if you feel ok, then cool, its not healthy or truthful-to-self for one to be numb to the experiences of life.



--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

Edited by CleverName (06/09/04 08:35 AM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2776628 -

I'm already perfect. I already speak the truth, painful as it might sometimes be. I don't like the truth at times, but the truth is all we have.

Now, having said that, every utterance that is a distortion will be glaring at me over the next week.

btw, has anyone ever raised hermit crabs? Aren't they the cutest things?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2776698 -

"Spirituality is NOT about aliens, drugs, pretty colors & patterns, praying nor meditation. It is about being as authentic a human being as you can be."

while I do think it is about being authentic, i think excluding what spirituality isn't destroys it's own authenticity. another person could have a point of view that anything can be labeled as "spiritual" it just depends on their own experience.

why can't "pretty" colors be spiritual? I've seen some sunsets, and I've seend some forests, that look so beautiful that my mind calmed down and payed attention to what is actually around us.

being connected to the essence of life and stepping back for a moment to just be at peace, fully in the moment, is a part of spirituality as well. And maybe I'm delsuional, but when I see "pretty colors" in the sky during a sunset, it brings back the awe living, for just a few moments.

the same could be said for any of the other things you labeled as "not spritual"

who is anyone to say what does and what doesn't have spirituality at all?

spirtuality has to deal with a deep connection with life, and many people have many types of connections. what is there doesn't really matter, but rather how you feel about what's there is where the spirituality comes in. The beauty in all of it is that anything could have this spritual connection.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

Edited by kaiowas (06/09/04 01:02 AM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Frog]
    #2776722 -

*Thread derailment alert*

has anyone ever raised hermit crabs? Aren't they the cutest things?

I prefer fiddler crabs. They have one claw tiny enough to manipulate atoms and one claw big enough to crush a Volkswagon. Kind of like me. Guess I should occasionally switch hands...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: kaiowas]
    #2776731 -

why can't "pretty" colors be spiritual? I've seen some sunsets, and I've seend some forests, that look so beautiful that my mind calmed down and payed attention to what is actually around us.

True enough, but if you remain petty and unchanged for more than a moment, then it was merely entertainment.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2776767 -

"True enough, but if you remain petty and unchanged for more than a moment, then it was merely entertainment."

not totally, it depends on how the experience is used :wink:

what if I was alert enough to realize that I could feel this peaceful more often? that's what I did.  maybe delusion to some, but I feel that I should be happy at least 90% of the time, and in fact, I over react a lot.  this can provide clairity which is essential towards good judgement and action. this could be used as catalyst for motivation in bettering oneself. to take a look inside and to be aware of ones own actions and achieve a peaceful state of mind more often than not.

on the flipside, what if it allows a person to see how petty they really are?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

Edited by kaiowas (06/09/04 01:18 AM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: kaiowas]
    #2776785 -

Those sound like changes.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2776798 -

i understand those are changes..that was the point.

are you saying that if something isn't spiritual to one person, then it isn't spiritual at all?

I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying that everything is spiritual, and that beauty in it is that each of us holds onto something a little bit different than the next.


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: kaiowas]
    #2776944 -

no man, not EVERYTHING is spiritual... I wish alot of people could embrace the right wrong theory, and accept there ARE things which are 'wrong'... fuck all this " well if I THINK it is right, IT IS" and then going and murding 20 children... man the way some people think makes me sick..



















sorry for the rant

!

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2777136 -

people that think everything is either black or white make me sick  :tongue:



..........

Thus Spake Muppet


--------------------


:craven:  Ravings of a Madman  :craven:

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Muppet]
    #2777182 -

*headbang*

Awesome retorts from Kaiowas and Muppet.

I agree a little with each of you.

It's a little too easy to get morals mixed up in a conversation about spirituality...

I think one of the biggest problems with Swami's original proposed concept of "what spirituality is" lies in the fact that in order to reach a point where one wants to BE this "authentic" human being they must experience some mental and emotional state-of-mind changes. These often come about as a result of the things you listed as being non-spiritual; much in the way that Kaiowas described above.

Are catalysts to spiritual states of mind not spiritual in themselves? I think that's a question that is completely subjective as well.. but it is food for thought.

Swami, perhaps your own personal spirituality revolves around the external and doing things to better the external... but some people are in a state where spirituality is about bettering themselves internally. Before these individuals can act externally in the way you've described, they must first learn to be at peace with themselves.

Anyway.. I should say one more thing: I'm not trying to say that it's impossible for every one of us to "tell the truth for a week".. I'm simply trying to point out that spirituality is a lot more grey than it is black and white.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2777318 -

spirituality vs ego.

that is my problem.  i dare say its probably most peoples problem, even if they think they are spiritual people.

have you forgotten where you come from?  its hard to imagine being a child again, but i remember eating and crapping, doing things to please myself, and not caring about others unless there was some gain for me. i hurt a lot of peoples feelings and had no regrets.

nowadays i could say i know better, but why?

because my parents told me so? maybe my teachers? i didnt listen to them.

i had some experiences in my life, involving beauty, love, ideas i have in my head, and basic mechanics.

once, i saw the beauty in everything... everything i could imagine.  its hard to see that all the time, but its possible to see that a lot more than thinking things are ugly.

i realized that love is more than sex but also that sex can be a catalyst to love, because it can be beautiful and endearing, regardless of what else it could be. and thogh love can have nothing to do with sex, being a man i found it hard not to intertwine the two as i reached maturity... so i had to make this realization (besides love for ones mother, her mother and so forth... that is another story in the same book).

i had an idea that everone else is having ideas and everyone else is just stumbling in the dark as much as i was, and still am.  theres no trophy for being good... and if there is one i dont know about, you cant take it with you when you die, so it would be pointless.  there is no affirmation by a greater diety or the universe itself other than yourself.  your fellow humans and animals that tell you might happen to be on the right track are all in your head anyways!

and basic mechanics and physics.  the world works.  the universe works.  wether or not we think we work in it or with it, we are a byproduct of our environment, literally.  to quote mr alan watts "just as an apple tree fruits, the universe peoples."  we cannot help it.  it needs no help.

back to my original thought... dont forget where you came from, you were never mindless, but you very well could have been thoughtless.  why did that change?  how are you different?  are you different at all?  you may not be.  you may be doing exactly the same things under some more sophisticated ruse/path.  and then why should you change?  maybe you shouldnt, you seem to be getting along just fine.

peace
:kodama:

PS ill go ahead and look at my exagerations to see if they inhibit my authenticiy.


--------------------
Men look at themselves and they see flawed humans, we look at women and we see perfect
GODDESSES
Women look at themselves and they seem utterly human, when looking at men they see proud
GODS.

~Casil



:cactus:

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2777650 -

>> Spirituality is NOT about aliens, drugs, pretty colors & patterns, praying nor meditation. It is about being as authentic a human being as you can be

Some people use praying, meditation, and psychedelic drugs as a means of identifying their own authenticity, though. As human beings who cherish our own reputation to such a great extent, it is natural that we would wish to exaggerate our strengths and excuse our weakenesses. This habit, while not as apparent in some as in others, is a pervasive one in all human beings. Some of us recognize that fleeing from our faults while identifying only with our strengths is in fact destructive behaviour that destroys happiness. However, unable to identify the subtle parts of our being which continue to guide is in this direction, some of us might turn to prayer, meditation, or psychedelic drugs as a means of getting in touch with ourselves and confronting our own downfalls.

Unfortunately, it is also true that prayer, meditation, or psychedelic drugs are also easily adopted as a means of further bolstering ones own proud identity, as a kind of self-congratulating practice which aids us in ignoring our faults even moreso than before.

Those of us with a sincere wish to better ourselves will encounter a means of doing so.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2777748 -

For the purpose of the "Swami Truth Challenge"... For which no reward has been offered; to my delight ...












I know why Novelty will reach zero.












When the timing calls for it, I will share..


--------------------


Dei Gratia de integro,

Veni Vidi Vici:

In Nomine Domini..

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Muppet]
    #2778124 -

Muppet said:
people that think everything is either black or white make me sick  :tongue:



..........

Thus Spake Muppet



I hope you are not refering to ME... there are lots of factors that can make a situation right or wrong.. killing is 'ok' in certain instances, but not in others... it is all about the situation... if that comment was not directed at me disreguard this post, sincerly

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2778605 -

yes, i think a persons intentions/motives are what matters, even if they make an honest mistake.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2778772 -

"man the way some people think makes me sick.. "

haha sorry if my view "makes" you sick. here's a suggestion...rearrange that sentence to read "I make myself sick when I read some people thoughts."


"spirtuality has to deal with a deep connection with life, and many people have many types of connections. WHAT IS THERE doesn't really matter, but rather how you feel about what's there is where the spirituality comes in. The beauty in all of it is that anything COULD have this spritual connection. "

sprituality is an approach, not certain events, or even things. trying to dumb down spirituality to that level as i said before destroys it's own authenticity.

again this is only my viewpoint and should only be taken as such. if you read what I posted before you can see clearly that my viewpoint of spirituality has to deal with bettering yourself...and I'm sorry if that makes you sick.

I'll quote jaque here "Are catalysts to spiritual states of mind not spiritual in themselves? I think that's a question that is completely subjective as well.. but it is food for thought."

so what about this subjective view of right and wrong that you have.

I was abused serverly as a kid, and in no way I thought it was right. but "it depends on how the experience is used" and i used to it better myself. it was wrong, but it was spiritual for me non of the less. are you going to sit here and tell me it wasn't and then get sick about it?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2778988 -

jjust what should i write down... lol.


--------------------
What?

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Zero7a1]
    #2779345 -

Confession: I caught myself starting to exaggerate a story to get a more emotional response from the listener, but I stopped just in time. Maybe there is hope for me...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2779718 -

oh... What does that have to do with anything? Wouldnt it be better to point out down right lies... Which i dont do.

Are you saying that i should admit everytime i try to make something more emotionally appealing? Or would you consider that a falsehood because of it trying to legimately play with words in order to achieve a personal goal?

Is your end to simply just point this out... so that we become aware... truthful to ourself about the situations we choose to partake in... with other people?


--------------------
What?

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Ped]
    #2780398 -

Quote:
Ped said:
Unfortunately, it is also true that prayer, meditation, or psychedelic drugs are also easily adopted as a means of further bolstering ones own proud identity, as a kind of self-congratulating practice which aids us in ignoring our faults even moreso than before.



This is a good point Ped and I agree. But I also think that a strong case can be made for the possibility that, if used correctly, these things can not be a means for bolstering one's pride. If used correctly, these things have something to show us that gives pride considerable pause.

edit:

Edited by bufo (06/11/04 08:01 PM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2781151 -

what about combing your hair before you go out, or shaving day after day? or cleaning up the house before company comes over? are these considered lies or falsehoods?


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

Edited by CleverName (06/10/04 02:14 PM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2781170 -

Swami said:
Spirituality is NOT about aliens, drugs, pretty colors & patterns, praying nor meditation. It is about being as authentic a human being as you can be.


Sources?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: ]
    #2781568 -

>> But I also think that a strong case can be made for the possibility that, if used correctly, these things can not be a means for bolstering one's pride. If used correctly, these things have something to show us that gives pride considerable pause.

Absolutely.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Ped]
    #2782796 -

Pride is not always a bad thing. One can rightly take pride in one's good work, for example.

Soul is the pride of bone...

edit:

Edited by bufo (06/11/04 08:02 PM)

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: ]
    #2783357 -

There is nothing wrong with a bit of pride in one's strengths if one also acknowledges one's weaknesses equally.

As to the challenge itself.. I content that it's perfectly possible to brag, or exaggerate, without lying.
However I will concede the point that such things are very close, and will keep you stuck in your ego.. at least so long as we agree your ego is that which you have constructed to be "you", the self-classification we all do.

Deception with truth is much more powerful than deception with lies. Any question asked has many possible answers, the trick is to simply find an acceptable answer, a true answer, that will satisfy the questioner without divulging the truth they were trying to uncover. If done right and well enough, they won't even consider that something may have been hidden from them.

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: Swami]
    #2785055 -

so, how is everyone faring with truthfulness? i find that its the small things that are the hardest to be truthful about.


--------------------
if you can't find the truth right where you are, where else do you expect to find it?

this is the purpose

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Re: Swami Truth Challenge [Re: ]
    #2787430 -

Divine pride is that which enables us to see the good in ourselves and make effort for extending good deeds. Deluded pride is that which exaggerates our good qualities and views them along side the downfalls of others.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace

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