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 Randolph_Carter
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 Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? 
#2727594 - 05/25/04 12:30 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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What do you think? Is a period of physical deprivation or aceticism necessary to develop a healthy spirtual side?
Looking at this country, i think that this is a strong possibility. Our constant focus on and chasing after of physical niceties (better cars, better homes, etc) has robbed us of our ability to look inside. It even seems, with the emergence of televangleists and the like, that our spiritual leaders have succumbed to the lure of the physical.
So. Here's the question....preferably your answer will be acompanied by reasoning.
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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson
Nuke baby seals for Jesus!
(This has been a +1 production.)
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Worldbridger
Nemo Lotus
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2727668 - 05/25/04 12:50 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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I feel the need to quote a paragraph from the Psychedelic Experience...
A psychedelic experience is a journey to new realms of consciousness. The scope and content of the experience is limitless, but its characteristic features are the transcendence of verbal concepts, of space-time dimensions, and of the ego or identity. Such experiences of enlarged consciousness can occur in a variety of ways: sensory deprivation, yoga exercises, disciplined meditation, religious or aesthetic ecstasies, or spontaneously. Most recently they have become available to anyone through the ingestion of psychedelic drugs such as LSD, psilocybin, mescaline, DMT, etc. [This is the statement of an ideal, not an actual situation, in 1964. The psychedelic drugs are in the United States classified as "experimental" drugs. That is, they are not available on a prescription basis, but only to "qualified investigators." The Federal Food and Drug Administration has defined "qualified investigators" to mean psychiatrists working in a mental hospital setting, whose research is sponsored by either state or federal agencies.]
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deff
just love everyone
Registered: 05/01/04
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2727799 - 05/25/04 01:15 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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I think releasing the ego's grasp is not necessary, but rather very worthwhile in the pursuit of spiritual understanding. It is in my opinion that it is the ego that creates fear, pain, and all emotions that try to influence our actions, as well as bind us to this false illusion of seperated identities. When we no longer *care* about physical deprivation, the ego suffers as it has lost some grasp on our true selves, and begins to take a back seat to our consciousness, soul, spirit, or whatever word you used to describe the essence of our perspective existence. All suffering is an illusion that we create for ourselves, and realizing this brings about the knowledge that everything is actually perfect. This is "heaven", paradise, bliss, as nothing can penetrate through the everythingness.
Sorry, a bit off topic I know, but overall I think physical deprivation is worthwhile but not for the reasons commonly thought of. You do not need to feel pain to develop spiritually, but rather accept pain, as well as all "negative" emotions, as nothing more than
false creations, and learn to overcome the want and desire they bring.
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Randolph_Carter
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: deff]
#2727827 - 05/25/04 01:23 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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Actually, it's not that off topic... the endurance of physical deprivation, and the changes in perception that it brings, as you've pointed out, are things that i believe our society, due to over-concentration on physical niceities, has grown away from.
Very interesting view tho. Thanks for the opinion.
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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson
Nuke baby seals for Jesus!
(This has been a +1 production.)
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Worldbridger
Nemo Lotus
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2727847 - 05/25/04 01:29 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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Pain is a necessary part in the evolution and transformation towards the realisation of oneness and unity. In order to accept pain, you have to have experienced it. If there was no pain, there would be no pleasure. It is merely a sensation. The feeling of pain and the reaction to the feeling however are two different things all together.
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Buddha1
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2727856 - 05/25/04 01:31 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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I am far from knowing what I'm talking about, but this is the way I understand it:
Physical deprivation can result in one experiencing different states of conciousness, awareness, being, understanding, etc... It gives one a new perspective on one's former state. The first step to becoming enlightened or conscious is to realize that one is not enlightened/conscious. Also we learn through experience, and by suffering or experiencing sorrow/pain, we can better understand its nature, which is necessary to overcome it. Also, pain and suffering give incentive to seek enlightenment, because spiritual development is the only way to overcome these obstacles. Would you have any incentive to explore higher states of consciousness if you were totally comfortable with your life as it is?
So no, I don't think that physical deprivation is necessary for spiritual learning, but it may very well have some benefits.
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 psyka
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2727939 - 05/25/04 01:59 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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Thats a very interesting question, actually  I'll have to give this one some time.
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As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.
 
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peleg
Gypsy
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Buddha1]
#2727949 - 05/25/04 02:01 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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self denial goes along way, it's like your dying to live a "free" new life thats not in constrants or bondage, sure there is a price to pay but it's all given back to ya 40 60 and 100 fold.to serve others rather than myself, it's hard at times but very rewarding  does this make scence to ya'll? peace Gypsy
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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....
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Randolph_Carter
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Buddha1]
#2727967 - 05/25/04 02:08 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Would you have any incentive to explore higher states of consciousness if you were totally comfortable with your life as it is?
No, you wouldn't. However, what i see is people attempting to create a physical surrounding that will be fully comfortable to their current mental/spiritual state, rather than taking the opportunity to explore themselves. The goal is to be comfortable with oneself WITHOUT having to change....thereby the focus on physicality.
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"..all those molecules thrashing their kinky little tails, hot for destiny and the street." Gibson
Nuke baby seals for Jesus!
(This has been a +1 production.)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 34,879
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the direction is hard to predict from appearances [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2728004 - 05/25/04 02:17 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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the relationship is not that simple.
material satisfaction may stifle seeking, but after satisfaction the immersed being may awake to emptiness, this is a very good beginning.
the man limping badly in 3rd hand running shoes begging for food & cigarettes may be enlightened or not; it is possible - otherwise certain suffering: the rich man, most likely indulged and asleep - but some buddhas emerge from the most unexpected corners.
others fail to germinate in even the most shitty soil.
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Anonymous
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2728273 - 05/25/04 03:12 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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From my own experience, physical deprivation seems to come naturally as a result of spiritual learning, rather than vice-versa. As one becomes more concerned with and devoted to the spiritual, one naturally loses the inclination toward physical aggrandizement. One will find it difficult to stayed focussed on both the physical and etheric realms at once. The more you are concerned with the physical realm, the harder it is to be attuned to the etheric realm.
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Muppet
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2728365 - 05/25/04 03:30 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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infatuation with the physical almost always goes hand in hand with ignorance of the metaphysical
materialism often excludes enlightenment
but even so - there are exception to everything
..........
Thus Spake Muppet
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 Ravings of a Madman
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annielicious
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 Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2729120 - 05/25/04 06:15 PM (19 years, 6 days ago) |
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Absolutely! I have experienced this first hand, and even though it was a tough adjustment, I wouldn't trade it for anything.
oDin and I went from a 2200 sq ft home, land, both had jobs etc etc. Then we decided to down size, since it seemed all we were doing was working to pay for a house we never spent any time at due to work. We sold the house, and bought a $4,500 1972 mobile home, 14 X 48. Little different, but doable.
Then he changed jobs, which lead us to US Native reservation life. Our first placement, was 7 months in a town with NO restaurant, 2 gas stations, a grocery, post office, and schools. I left behind all of my creature comforts, as well as family/friends support. We lived on an airmattress for 7 months, directly on a tile floor. We had 3 towels, 1 hand towel, limited kitchen supplies, no microwave, no TV, no radio, and we were a 50 minute drive to anywhere. I stood there that day, and thought what a selfish and spoiled person I was even after our downsize.
Those 7 months, and subsequently almost 3 years of living with limited belongings has made me deal with myself and other people in my life. Which has directly set my priorities straight which made spiritual growth easier and more enjoyable and thought provoking than ever in my life.
It makes me sad when people put so much energy into acquiring "stuff", when if they put 1/2 of that time towards personal and spiritual growth, this world could be in such better shape. It is amazing what we DON"T NEED to live a happy life.
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"Everything that limits us, we have to put aside." Jonathan Livingston Seagull
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Grav
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2729267 - 05/25/04 07:01 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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What the hell is spiritual learning?
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Worldbridger
Nemo Lotus
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Grav]
#2729320 - 05/25/04 07:09 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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Quote:
Grav said:
What the hell is spiritual learning?
Ya, that is what I was wondering?
Everyone's definition of spirituality is different. So how can we all agree on what is considered spiritual learning, let alone what is necessary to do such learning. In the caveman days it was probably very spiritual to learn how to make a fire for themeselves to live! Now a days, spirituality for me can be a wide variety of things.
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peleg
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Worldbridger]
#2729542 - 05/25/04 07:58 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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spiritual learning.....well there is the self, the drive to self please, self serve.Than there is the spirit, the desire to be one with the Creator, to love unconditionally, to forgive all wrongs, to live in peace and the like. Now to walk in the spirit is spiritualy learning to love and the like on a higher level, but the only way this is acomplished is by denying ones self.
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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....
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Worldbridger
Nemo Lotus
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: peleg]
#2729590 - 05/25/04 08:07 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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Peleg:
There are different degrees of spiritual learning, and discipline. And everyones definition of spiritual learning is different than everyone elses. Also the necessary actions to accomplish the willed form of learning is different for different individuals. There is no set course for everyone. Everyones path to the absolute infinite source is different. And no one can answer what is the right path for you, that is for you to discover. You mension a form of spiritual learning that might be essential for you to evolve. However people that are at a greater degree of knowledge might require a different set of actions to attain a different set of results, for example reaching a state of samdhi, and be willing to die at any given time without any attatchments with absolute certainty of a ressurection.
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peleg
Gypsy
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Worldbridger]
#2729644 - 05/25/04 08:17 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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to him who much is given much is requried? evryone is diffrent as far as there dicipline goes, but is it not to work for the same goal of perfected love and peace and patince and the like?
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"Well the first days are the hardest days." When life looks like easy street there is danger at your door.....
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Mixomatosis
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2729703 - 05/25/04 08:29 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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In my case material possessions and the like dissipate the more my "spirituality" progresses. I don't impose living with few physical items. they leave as I change.
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Frog
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Re: Physical deprivation necessary for spirtual learning? [Re: Randolph_Carter]
#2729959 - 05/25/04 09:26 PM (19 years, 5 days ago) |
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When I lost everything 2 years ago, EVERYTHING, break up of family, home, office, etc., I hit a spiritual peak. It caused me to realize that everything I had was nothing. I learned that the Universe was looking out for me. I saw a different side of life.
I think that is where ego gets in the way, when we are in pursuit of "things" that we think will make us happy, but only in the material sense. When we realize that those things don't matter, maybe we can relax and become more spiritual. Maybe the only way this can happen is to shed ourselves of all things extraneous.
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The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire. -Teilard
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