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 Enlil 
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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 Re: TRUMP 2020  [Re: psi] 3
#27067287 - 12/01/20 09:33 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said:
If good evidence was provided then the lawsuits should have gone somewhere, unless the court system is not functioning as it is supposed to.
It doesn't even need to be good or strong evidence. If there is any evidence to support a claim of election fraud, a court will not dismiss the case. On a motion to dismiss, the standard is that the court must take every allegation, assume them to be true, and interpret them in a light most favorable to the plaintiff. If, under that standard, there is not enough to support the claim, it gets dismissed.
The court can't weigh evidence from both sides. Literally, the court has to believe every fact alleged in the complaint for purposes of the motion. Trumps claims still failed. And those dismissals have been upheld by higher courts unanimously. In other words, every judge that has looked at it has found that the lawyers couldn't even allege facts sufficient to state a claim for election fraud.
That's pathetic. That's losing on a biblical level. That's why we keep saying there's "no" evidence. There's literally none. If this were a murder case, this would be weaker than a case with no body. This would be a case where the victim is alive and testifying about how the defendant murdered him.
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 christopera
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
#27067325 - 12/01/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was just reading about Bill Barr being a deep state operative. He really turned on his base.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Kwyjibo]
#27067370 - 12/01/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycolorado said:
Just because someone believes something is evidence doesn't make it evidence. Allegations are not evidence.
Agreed.
Giuliani, Powell, and others claim to have evidence of fraud. Do they? I won't pretend to know. The establishment media's fooled most of you before; I'd rather wait and see what they've got.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Am I missing something falcon?
What did you find compelling in those links/articles and why?
Falcon could you at least answer my last question if not my last two
I addressed your first question here and your second here (which came before the previous one).
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
#27067378 - 12/01/20 11:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
psi said:
If good evidence was provided then the lawsuits should have gone somewhere, unless the court system is not functioning as it is supposed to.
It doesn't even need to be good or strong evidence. If there is any evidence to support a claim of election fraud, a court will not dismiss the case.
Agreed. The evidence in lawsuits brought by others appears to not be that good. Let's see if Giuliani has anything better.
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 8 hours, 49 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Mycolorado said:
Just because someone believes something is evidence doesn't make it evidence. Allegations are not evidence.
Agreed.
Giuliani, Powell, and others claim to have evidence of fraud. Do they? I won't pretend to know. The establishment media's fooled most of you before; I'd rather wait and see what they've got.
You said the same of seagu regarding "evidence" submitted to this forum, and then we found out that you never even bothered to read the touted "evidence". Have you bothered to read any of "evidence of fraud" claimed by Giuliani et al? This decision is from last Friday:
Quote:
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE THIRD CIRCUIT
_______________
No. 20-3371
_______________
DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC.;
LAWRENCE ROBERTS; DAVID JOHN HENRY,
Appellants
[...]
Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.
The Trump Presidential Campaign asserts that Pennsylvania’s 2020 election was unfair. But as lawyer Rudolph Giuliani stressed, the Campaign “doesn’t plead fraud. . . . [T]his is not a fraud case.” Mot. to Dismiss Hr’g Tr. 118:19–20, 137:18. Instead, it objects that Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State and some counties restricted poll watchers and let voters fix technical defects in their mail-in ballots. It offers nothing more.
[...]
Nor does the Campaign deserve an injunction to undo Pennsylvania’s certification of its votes. The Campaign’s claims have no merit. The number of ballots it specifically challenges is far smaller than the roughly 81,000-vote margin of victory. And it never claims fraud or that any votes were cast by illegal voters. Plus, tossing out millions of mail-in ballots would be drastic and unprecedented, disenfranchising a huge swath of the electorate and upsetting all down-ballot races too. That remedy would be grossly disproportionate to the procedural challenges raised. So we deny the motion for an injunction pending appeal.
Source: https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/203371np.pdf
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger
Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 7 months, 6 days
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Giuliani, Powell, and others claim to have evidence of fraud. Do they? I won't pretend to know. The establishment media's fooled most of you before; I'd rather wait and see what they've got.
You said the same of seagu regarding "evidence" submitted to this forum, and then we found out that you never even bothered to read the touted "evidence".
I was hoping to learn something by reading people's back and forth debate. I specifically said this regarding seagu when I brought up his posts:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Seagu's posted quite a bit of stuff that no one here wants to discuss. Again, I'm not saying he's right or wrong, I'm saying people don't want to talk about it.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Have you bothered to read any of "evidence of fraud" claimed by Giuliani et al? This decision is from last Friday:
Quote:
UNITED STATES COURT OF APPEALS
FOR THE THIRD CIRCUIT
_______________
No. 20-3371
_______________
DONALD J. TRUMP FOR PRESIDENT, INC.;
LAWRENCE ROBERTS; DAVID JOHN HENRY,
Appellants
[...]
Free, fair elections are the lifeblood of our democracy. Charges of unfairness are serious. But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here.
The Trump Presidential Campaign asserts that Pennsylvania’s 2020 election was unfair. But as lawyer Rudolph Giuliani stressed, the Campaign “doesn’t plead fraud. . . . [T]his is not a fraud case.” Mot. to Dismiss Hr’g Tr. 118:19–20, 137:18. Instead, it objects that Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State and some counties restricted poll watchers and let voters fix technical defects in their mail-in ballots. It offers nothing more.
[...]
Nor does the Campaign deserve an injunction to undo Pennsylvania’s certification of its votes. The Campaign’s claims have no merit. The number of ballots it specifically challenges is far smaller than the roughly 81,000-vote margin of victory. And it never claims fraud or that any votes were cast by illegal voters. Plus, tossing out millions of mail-in ballots would be drastic and unprecedented, disenfranchising a huge swath of the electorate and upsetting all down-ballot races too. That remedy would be grossly disproportionate to the procedural challenges raised. So we deny the motion for an injunction pending appeal.
Source: https://www2.ca3.uscourts.gov/opinarch/203371np.pdf
That's Giuliani's case?
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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Sulfurshelfsean
Defender of Cubes
Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 4,128
Last seen: 19 hours, 11 minutes
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Of our news sources just take whatever the president or any election official at face value then we get shit like war with Iraq. Everyone should be skeptical and critical of their politicians.
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Everything is better when it is done ON TOP OF A MOUNTAIN!
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Am I missing something falcon?
What did you find compelling in those links/articles and why?
Falcon could you at least answer my last question if not my last two
I addressed your first question here and your second here (which came before the previous one).
Well mycolorado's reply to the first one was on point
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Here's an example:
Quote:
seagu said:
*****
No responses to that one.
You consider this to be compelling evidence of election fraud?
I haven't read it. My point is that no one has made a compelling argument against it other than arguments like "Sidney's a big fat poo poo head". I'm just observing that everyone has insults, and no one has arguments.
I didn't know you were official political forum hall monitor. Maybe if you actually read what you wanted us to talk a about you would be insulting it too especially because it was content that was quite insulting to intelligence.
You're as genuine as a three dollar bill man. Besides admitting to the fact you didn't read it
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feevers
Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,662
Loc:
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
feevers said:
It seems you haven’t noticed that my posts were mockingly attempting to dumb things down to the level you’d apparently like to debate on...
Oh look! More insults! 
Quote:
feevers said:
But yet you spent more time dissecting my post than actually investigating this fraud you seem to be so concerned by, because when accusations go against the trump side your criteria apparently changes.
That's probably true, I haven't spend much time investigating this. I was hoping the people here who had something to say would do a better job.
Just want to clear this up that it wasn't an insult against you, just the tactic you've been using in this thread where you seem to be expecting people to explain why 2+2=4 every time they say that 4+4=8, even though the majority of this stuff has been debunked already in this same sub or with 30 seconds on google. I've yet to see a single acknowledgement by these conspiracy theorists when their claims are disproven, they just double down and reiterate different forms of the same fantasy. Along with the accusations that those of us who want to see actual evidence are against a fair election of course.
Has anyone posted even one shred of evidence that the 2020 results were influenced by fraud? If they have then they should probably forward it to trump's justice department, who has not fount any.
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bodhisatta
Smurf real estate agent
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,891
Loc: Milky way
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feevers]
#27067662 - 12/02/20 07:30 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why are people not discussion edison county Michigan? They're just insulting Powell.
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christopera
Stranger
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Last seen: 2 hours, 7 minutes
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: feevers] 1
#27067703 - 12/02/20 08:08 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
feevers said:
It seems you haven’t noticed that my posts were mockingly attempting to dumb things down to the level you’d apparently like to debate on...
Oh look! More insults!
Quote:
feevers said:
But yet you spent more time dissecting my post than actually investigating this fraud you seem to be so concerned by, because when accusations go against the trump side your criteria apparently changes.
That's probably true, I haven't spend much time investigating this. I was hoping the people here who had something to say would do a better job.
Just want to clear this up that it wasn't an insult against you, just the tactic you've been using in this thread where you seem to be expecting people to explain why 2+2=4 every time they say that 4+4=8, even though the majority of this stuff has been debunked already in this same sub or with 30 seconds on google. I've yet to see a single acknowledgement by these conspiracy theorists when their claims are disproven, they just double down and reiterate different forms of the same fantasy. Along with the accusations that those of us who want to see actual evidence are against a fair election of course.
Has anyone posted even one shred of evidence that the 2020 results were influenced by fraud? If they have then they should probably forward it to trump's justice department, who has not fount any.
That's what I keep saying, there's all of this supposed evidence out there, and yet for $20k a day Giuliani can't seem to present any of it. All these detectives should apply for Giuliani's job, do it for $15k a day because according to everybody on Trump's side, the case is open and shut.
--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.
A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.
Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things
I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's Giuliani's case?
That's one of them. Dismissed before any evidentiary hearing because he couldn't allege a claim for relief. Dismissal upheld on appeal.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ
Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,473
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 8 hours, 49 minutes
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Giuliani, Powell, and others claim to have evidence of fraud. Do they? I won't pretend to know. The establishment media's fooled most of you before; I'd rather wait and see what they've got.
You said the same of seagu regarding "evidence" submitted to this forum, and then we found out that you never even bothered to read the touted "evidence".
I was hoping to learn something by reading people's back and forth debate. I specifically said this regarding seagu when I brought up his posts
So your preferred method of information gathering on the subject is via third party discussion on the shroomery, rather than directly reading the primary material yourself?
And then, when the back and forth debate was dismissive of the material, did you accept people's opinion? No. Did you take the time to read the material yourself? No. You just accused everyone who did read (and then dismiss) it, of not wanting to discuss the subject.
Does that seem like a reasonable approach to you?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
#27067783 - 12/02/20 09:00 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
That's Giuliani's case?
That's one of them. Dismissed before any evidentiary hearing because he couldn't allege a claim for relief. Dismissal upheld on appeal.
I'm guessing he didn't read it, because I included a reference to Giuliani in my quote: But as lawyer Rudolph Giuliani stressed, the Campaign “doesn’t plead fraud. . . . [T]his is not a fraud case.”
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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I'm pretty sure he hasn't been on top of any of the election fraud nonsense, but he felt it appropriate to criticize the way in which the topic has been handled in this forum. If he had stayed informed, he would have either seen the complete lack of evidence so far, or he would have adopted the position of our resident conspiracy folk who will believe everything they read on twitter.
Of all of Falcon's positions in this forum over the last few years, this is by far the oddest of them all. It appears to be, "I don't know what is going on with this election fraud thing, but I know that you guys aren't being rational about it."
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PumpJackTeX
livin life
Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 3,951
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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What are yall gonna argue about once Biden is in office?
Putin specifically wanted to divide us with Trump & it worked well!
Thank god the majority of us came to our senses.
I can't wait for things to go back to normal here.
It shows you how easy Hitler came to power with propagand and how easy some humans will blindly follow a pathetic human being and live under delusions and alternative realities.
Thank you if you voted to Biden.
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Life. 2008
Ascension Energy | UFOs | 2021
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Enlil
OTD God-King
Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 67,258
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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There will always be something to argue about. I remember in 2012, when Phred (RIP) was screaming about how the nation will implode if Obama is re-elected. The world kept spinning, and we kept arguing.
We argue in this forum for the same reason that people fuck each other up in a mosh pit. That's the whole purpose of the place.
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Ask an Attorney
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PumpJackTeX
livin life
Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 3,951
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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TrUmP 2024 tHeY sToLe tHe eLeCtIoN fRoM uS
mAkE MeRkiCA VeRy GrEat aGaIN
2020 was so great! Greatly the greatest year to be great!
We could have avoided the 300,000 American deaths that happened this year if we tookthe same precautions steps as Taiwan.
But no. Those deaths are all a hoax. Nobody died. Fake news. China virus isn't real. Now go work so you can consume.
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Ascension Energy | UFOs | 2021
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PumpJackTeX
livin life
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Re: TRUMP 2020 [Re: Enlil]
#27067841 - 12/02/20 09:25 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
There will always be something to argue about. I remember in 2012, when Phred (RIP) was screaming about how the nation will implode if Obama is re-elected. The world kept spinning, and we kept arguing.
We argue in this forum for the same reason that people fuck each other up in a mosh pit. That's the whole purpose of the place.
Quote:
Enlil said:
There will always be something to argue about. I remember in 2012, when Phred (RIP) was screaming about how the nation will implode if Obama is re-elected. The world kept spinning, and we kept arguing.
We argue in this forum for the same reason that people fuck each other up in a mosh pit. That's the whole purpose of the place.
I guess your right. Should be called Argue Topic Discussion. This place is not the same. It is time for me to go. Yall have fun arguing. Im too old for it these days.
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Life. 2008
Ascension Energy | UFOs | 2021
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