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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: ShroomAnon]
    #26239528 -

I think this quote from that other thread settles it, at least for me:

Alan Rockefeller said:
P. strictipes is likely a synonym of P. semilanceata - All of the P. strictipes collections that Jan and I have sequenced turned out to be that species.



(my emphasis)


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★★★★★

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26239545 -

Now that was a much more thoughtful response. I realise in the world of science, mycology being part of that things change all the time. Don't get me started about the whole panaeolus subbalteatus /cinctulus change or the gymnopilus spectabilis/junonius thing, among others. Sometimes it makes complete sense to change a name or species such as psilocybe montana to deconica montana. I suppose a change always makes sense to someone, but often it seems like nonsense and unnecessary - especially when a species has been known as something forever and the vast amount of references to it can and do take years, if not decades to fix, adapt to or clarify. Especially in guide books that were correct one year and the next no longer.

In regards to the semilanceata/strictipes matter, to be honest that is the first I have ever heard of the change. I had even been researching heavily after these latest finds both on semilanceata and strictipes as macroscopically these presented just differently enough from 'either' in many of the samples collected. And I am well aware of some huge macroscopic differences even across the same species. At the same time, they fall within the differences I have seen in the past, just not on such a large scale through the majority of specimens.

Given my photos (which are not awesome) and my description however, they certainly are active psilocybe, and very closely related to 'both/either' of them.

For several reasons ie. not having encountered any reference to strictipes having been merged with semilanceata,the description of them (easily and noticable seperable gelatinous pellicle, spore print color- deep purple, purple brown, pronounced papilla, (especially in younger specimens) stipe features etc. Nothing else matches, especially not galerina, and the gills and how they join with the stipe also totally wrong for deconica. The smell also totally matches with semilanceata and the overall look and feel. After researching and hunting for so many years, having found so many different psilocybe and countless other species that I can easily identify - as well as my having been a member here for 20+ years ... I took issue with the response. I think for good reason. I am a easy to get along with mushroom enthusiast and have also had countless conversations and dealings with experts here as well as other places. I won't call myself an expert, but experienced certainly. I was even asked several times if I wanted to be a Trusted Identifier - but turned the offer down for various reasons. Biggest being I just don't have the time.

The pint of my post was mostly to see if anyone else on the region had encountered similar variations growing in a peat bog. The reason for their coloration is not certainly their habitat, the bog water is a deep, dark reddish brown and therefore makes the mushrooms darker and almost the same colour. The bog also has a tremendous amount of fascinating nutrients which can also alter their appearance.

Cheers and happy hunting everyone.


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #26239578 -

StInvetroThomas said:



These look interesting. I take it that you have confirmed their psychoactivity through bioassays, not combining them with P. semilanceata or any other hallucinogenic species?
In that case - how would you classify the potency when comparing weight of dose to effects?

If you happen to come across more of them, you should definitely send a collection off for microscopy and DNA sequencing.

Other than that, their appearance and habitat are good matches to Psilocybe fuscofulva, but that is an inactive species as far as I know.


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★★★★★

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26240152 -

StInvetroThomas: I was thinking of Galerina paludosa, I looked at the photos and read the text, and when you mentioned the bog so many times I probably skipped the part when you stated that they are 100% active psilocybe. If you have done like Anglerfish said, not combined with any P. semilanceata (not even one!) and you ingested a descent amount to be 100% certain it's not placebo, then I also think this is really interesting.

Please look for more mushrooms and take lots of photos in the habitat, no more dull indoor photos on paper please. :wink:

Quote:
Psilocybe fuscofulva, but that is an inactive species as far as I know


Yes, at least it has never been detected in any Psilocybe fuscofulva. Here's a recent study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4510267/
The same study that concluded that P. fuscofulva = P. atrobrunnea.

But I think the habitat is wrong, and also wrong for P. medullosa which are also close macroscopically.


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:shroompick: My psychedelic art :pinkshroom: My photos of psychoactive mushrooms :pinkshroom:

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: knarkkorven]
    #26240464 -

knarkkorven said:
StInvetroThomas: I was thinking of Galerina paludosa, I looked at the photos and read the text, and when you mentioned the bog so many times I probably skipped the part when you stated that they are 100% active psilocybe. If you have done like Anglerfish said, not combined with any P. semilanceata (not even one!) and you ingested a descent amount to be 100% certain it's not placebo, then I also think this is really interesting.

Please look for more mushrooms and take lots of photos in the habitat, no more dull indoor photos on paper please. :wink:

Quote:
Psilocybe fuscofulva, but that is an inactive species as far as I know


Yes, at least it has never been detected in any Psilocybe fuscofulva. Here's a recent study:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4510267/
The same study that concluded that P. fuscofulva = P. atrobrunnea.

But I think the habitat is wrong, and also wrong for P. medullosa which are also close macroscopically.


The study says Psilocybe fuscofulva are found in peat bogs. It could be a candidate? It seems plausible?


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na

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: Anglerfish]
    #26240474 -

Anglerfish said:
StInvetroThomas said:





If you happen to come across more of them, you should definitely send a collection off for microscopy and DNA sequencing.



:whathesaid:


--------------------
na

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: knarkkorven]
    #26242326 -

This reminds me that I wanted to ask y’all what is the full list of actives here in the Baltic/Nordic region? Obviously semis, medullosa (though these seem very rare?) and cinctulus but are there any others common enough to warrant looking for?

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: Vanson2feet]
    #26242365 -

Vanson2feet said:
This reminds me that I wanted to ask y’all what is the full list of actives here in the Baltic/Nordic region? Obviously semis, medullosa (though these seem very rare?) and cinctulus but are there any others common enough to warrant looking for?


This is a good resource.

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: pekingtechnicolor]
    #26242980 -

Pluteus salicinus is missing for many of our countries in that list... but it's very rare. Other than that, the list is pretty good.


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:shroompick: My psychedelic art :pinkshroom: My photos of psychoactive mushrooms :pinkshroom:

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: ShroomAnon]
    #26243014 -

Sorry, have been quite busy with work and home-work lol. Need some time to address all of these interesting thoughts and ideas. Quickly though, bioassayed yes, fresh, very lib taste, just a bit different, probably due to the bog water ... Very similar experience to libs also, strong but also slightly different - could have been down to mood of knowing where they came from, a peat bog - a little exotic and magical.

These also dry quite a bit different than the descriptions I have read for p. fuscofulva, the caps especially dry a light cream to white in many cases. Stipes also similar color in the end to how semis dry. Have also noticed on a few of them slight blue/green bruising, the effect doesn't however seem to last that long and fades even after a couple of hours perhaps less, just noticed at that point. Libs have also done the same in my experience - although sometimes the bruising is still slightly noticable after drying. The majority of libs I have collected don't display any bruising - the most blue I have found were by libs hit with a frost. somewhere here I have a decent photo of one that had a completely blue cap. At any rate, these are interesting to say the least - one more quick thought as I need to hit the sack and wake up earlier than jsualt tomorrow. Although these have been found in a bog, they have been very localised and not widespread. I found them in two spots over several km and all were found not far from the bog boardwalk within spotting distance. They were also found growing in and around sedge grasses, mostly in a drier terrain, with no noticable wood debris or buried logs. So also not the typical habitat preferred by fuscofulva, from what I have read and seen. 

Anyway, that's it for me for now... Night all and happy hunting!

Edited by StInvetroThomas (10/13/19 01:02 PM)

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #26244529 -

1st thoughts were always libs but I do like a bit of speculation :wink:

I also think i may be going down a Psilocybe fuscofulva rabbit hole this season.

My (admittedly old) version of Roger's Mushrooms, which has it listed as P. Artobrunnea, enticing states "not authentically recorded in Britain". If this is still true it'd be nice to find some. I pick on moors so think there could be a chance I would come across them, though perhaps Irish hunters might have more luck.

hh


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na

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: ShroomAnon]
    #26247434 -

Finally, after many failures in finding libs i did it today. Found a couple of them. But it seems that season is ending soon. Hopefully we'll get more lucky days :smile:

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: yungSannie]
    #26249476 -

:thumbup: congrats!

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: SideNote] * 1
    #26249619 -

Cap with veil remnants and a fungus gnat egg.



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:shroompick: My psychedelic art :pinkshroom: My photos of psychoactive mushrooms :pinkshroom:

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: knarkkorven]
    #26249800 -

Great shot! Sadly I never have my good DSLR with me while hunting. Should bring it along sometime. Usually just my phone camera, which is quite decent - but lacking in certain situations.

The jury is still out on the ones I found in the bog, bioassay was right on though. Have also noticed what appears to be a bit of blueing in some places once dried, especially on the stems... And they shrink a lot - end result is quite Liberty Cap looking in most specimens. Just a bit bigger than my usual field finds. Will need to do a bit more research and send some samples off.

I think with the variability in some species, such as semilanceata, I like the idea of they would add a variation to the type on the end such as Psilocybe semilanceata var. Strictipes and so forth. It makes sense because some honestly open up their caps quite a bit in larger ones especially, but not always. I have seen giant and older libs that have a very slender and tight cap with a pronounced nipple, then as above some that are more umbrella in appearance with a slight nipple - which I for so long thought were strictipes, and also this is usually dependent on where I find them, usually a whole group will have either one of the features. These news ones probably also libs, but just the habitat is so much different than the field types. Just an idea. The weather has improved here and with just enough rain, probably will have a few other successful outings, just not back to the big unfortunately.

Cheers and happy hunting all!


--------------------
"...I found dozens of single specimens.  That's what I call hunting.  There are only a few "good" hunters here, even now.  You're certainly in that group.  I would imagine if we hunted together we'd find our styles are similar."
- Mr. Mushrooms

RIP Matt, your friendship and your contributions to the world of fungi will be missed. Unfortunately we never got to hunt together.

St Thomas

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: StInvetroThomas]
    #26249803 -

that’s i call a hunting, 5 hours picking and back pain :smile:
wet weight: 658g



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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: ST1R]
    #26250315 -

God damn it man! I'm so jeaolus. I wish I could find 20 meanwhile you are absolutely vacuuming them up. Crazy.

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: pangeabish]
    #26250922 -

pangeabish said:
God damn it man! I'm so jeaolus. I wish I could find 20 meanwhile you are absolutely vacuuming them up. Crazy.


that's when you've been engaged in this hobby for 9 years :cool:


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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: pangeabish]
    #26251139 -

It takes time and experience for sure. That's an amazing haul ST1R


pangeabish keep searching - there are some hunting days still left this season. It took me a couple of months before I was able to find any, got about 70 total from 3 successful hunts, each better than the last.



In the third image there are a couple (two) brownish lookalikes, which I didn't notice until after taking the photo - they had a black spore print and now that I am finding more I realized they don't look much like liberty caps.

Being a novice I also learned quickly that glass jars are bad (trapping moisture) and paper tissue sticks to the caps easily, though read somewhere that plastic is apparently not a good container material?

Scoped out some other pastures and nearby a sheep field in Northern Estonia near to Tallinn but no luck. I have plenty of time to hunt right now, so is there a general area that you guys would recommend? I am not asking for specifics of location (I read the forum rules asking about specific locations) but is.. e.g. Western Estonia better for the kind of grasslands that are good habitat for liberty caps or it's sort of all over the country and can be random?

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Re: OFFICIAL Nordic/Baltic Liberty Cap Season 2019 [Re: Closer]
    #26251475 -

ST1R: Nice photos. Looks like it must be something like 700 :smile:

StInvetroThomas: How many mushrooms did you eat of the unknown species?


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:shroompick: My psychedelic art :pinkshroom: My photos of psychoactive mushrooms :pinkshroom:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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