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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1812609 -

Good reading thanks, i think i shall sign up for the
field mycology journal. I have never seen liberty caps growin in dead grass, but you explaine that well, another thought is that many
meadows contain many grass speices, some dying of as others take over, throughout the year. So the prevalance of dead roots and root systems is pretty high in any grass area.

Do you have much experiance with english Psilocybe hunting?


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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1812611 -

P.s, i dont think its pointless to attempt to grow
Psilocybe semilanceata, it seems that more and more info is becoming avalible, and could show us the key :-)


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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1812654 -

Hey Paid
I didn't really mean to use the word pointless, I agree that techniques for successful fruiting continue to be improved. I just meant that for the purposes of most cultivators other species have a clear edge in terms of convenience.

I do have quite a lot of experience hunting English psilocybes - semilanceata and cyanescens. What about yourself?

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1812739 -

But isn't Psicloycbe cyanescens mycorhizzial as it grows in association with certain plants, niot excluding its dpenedence on alder and other hardwoods.

Anyway you are correct. and have a shroomy day. I will look for those articles when I come home.

mj

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1812792 -

I have been picking liberty caps for about 15 years, but only
found out about the wood lovers at the end of last season, I still
managed to find 1 though..

So hoping for a wet autum :-)
Thanks for the info.


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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1812908 -

Hey, I gather from the notes on your photograph that you found a Psilocybe cyanescens fruitbody in a natural forest setting ???
Psilocybe cyanescens is nearly exclusively found on the artifically fragmented woodchip material used to mulch plant beds in gardens, or to cover footpaths, racecourses, roundabouts etc. There are records of naturalized colonies in England (e.g. Epping Forest) but they are extremely few. I'm sure the British Mycological Society would be very interested to hear about exactly where and when you found your specimen. If you still have the dried specimen, please consider sending it to the fungal herbarium at Kew Gardens as it could be important material for researchers seeking to delimit the species or study its population structure/ecology.
Well done mate :-)
You might want to try looking in more likely places this season, i.e. the habitats I mention above.

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1812936 -

hey MJ
I can see why you think mushrooms like Psilocybe cyanescens might be mycorrhizal as they are often found in association with certain plants. However, there are many instances of them growing on large expanses woodchip mulch in the absence of live plants. The term 'mycorrhizal' specifies a relationship between a living plant and living fungus, in which water and nutrients are exchanged between the two and so both benefit. Psilocybe cyanescens does indeed show preferences for certain types of wood, but this wood is already dead. Thus it is a saprotrophic mushroom. I have observed often observed P. cyanescens growing in botanical gardens in plant beds full of all kinds of different live plants, but the underlying hyphal network is always associated with the dead wood covering the bed. In earlier literature P. cyanescens is often reported as being fond of rhododendron beds, but I think this can be attributed to woodchips being a very popular material for mulching rhododendron beds. It may well be that certain plants like rhododendrons promote P. cyanescens growth by providing shade and trapping humidity in a certain way, but this is not a mycorrhizal relationship nor is it essential for P. cyanescens growth.

By the way MJ congratulations on your new psilocybe discoveries in recent years I have found them very exciting ;-)

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1815778 -

Paid: the reasons for my conclusions about the friuting habbits of P. semilanceata are much like to your own. i have adopted those ideas from the litereature that seem most sound and in congruence with my own observations.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1815825 -

I fully concur on that note as I too have seen the same growth behavior throughout the pnw over the past thirty years.

However I have only observed them in a few areas of rhoderdendrons and once in a few rose gardens. mostly I have observed them in various stages od\f dead alder., sioometimes mixed alder and willow, steer-co wood-chipc. alder branches and even alder sawdust and with Paul Stamets growing on corrigated cardboard .

mj

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: canid]
    #1815831 -

Cool, its just i was curiouse because its not somthing ive tryed as a substrate yet, and i'm sure i could easyerly use grass roots as a substrate. In fact i think that will be one of my next attempts.


pluteus, that Psilocybe was picked in ruff wood, nowere near any wood chips or man made beds, and growing directly under an elm, from the forrest floor. So i would guess its its natural setting, i do still have a dryed specimen, and worked at kew for a time, so maybe i should contact them.
I can also recheck the spot this season as its in the wood attached to my house :-)
Spore size checks were done. I'll pm you the data if your interessted.


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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1815845 -

Paid: do you plan to try inoculating live grasses via a slurry?

i would be interested in any thoughts you have had on the subject.


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Attn PWN hunters: If you should come across a bluing Psilocybe matching P. pellicolusa please smell it.
If you detect a scent reminiscent of Anethole (anise) please preserve a specimen or two for study and please PM me.

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1816029 -

If you go to my sight you can see many images of P. cyanescens growing in grassy areas where there are no wood chuips, but lawn mowers spread them fromt he edges of muclhed areas. I have also photographed some where a large fairy ring of P. cyans growing completenly around an apple tree. This was shown to me in Astoria Oregon by a cool shroomer I met at Breightenbush hot springs.

mj


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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1816131 -

Paid, your idea of using grass roots as a substrate sounds ingenious to me!  Try to use both dying, live, and dead roots, especially from grasses in the fall.  Please keep us posted on your progress!  Maybe some day indoor cultivation of semilanceata, or even prolific and easy to maintain outdoor beds, could be a successful dream.  That would be awesome because then we wouldn't have to bother the farmers, and since semilanceata is slimy looking and rather small, I think that most people who don't know about its psychoactivity would just walk right past the patch  :smile:

I suppose that one would still have to bother the farmers in order to collect the grass roots from pasture grasses.  Also, the fact that liberty caps grow mainly in pastures grazed by pooping sheep or cows in North America might indicate that using only naked grass roots might not be enough.

I wish I lived in England where semilanceata grows in public places and not just private farms... I also wish that foenisecii would be extremely potent LOL!

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: megaman3]
    #1816157 -

Liberty caps have grown in public places in the PNW but they are rare and usually a year or two and then gone from such lawns.

And that could be your american dream. to someday own your own farm with cattle and your own personal suppkly of liberty caps.


mj

Edited by mjshroomer (08/15/03 05:16 AM)

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: canid]
    #1816176 -

I spawned to live grass directly ontop, brushing in the
millet. I also lifted some turf and put a layer of
composted sheep poo and millet spawn down, then returfed.
As well as using colonised honeywater in various places that
seemed like the right sort of areas.
Only problem was, the culture i used was ink cap, not
Psilocybe semilanceata. But i did grow some lovely incaps in the
area were i lifted the turf :-)and fruited a few indoors as well lol.

I have some spores (thanks to a freind) that have germinated on dog biscuit agar and seem to be doing well, but now the season nears, i shall clone from some of my favorite spots, and try a few more experiments next year i think :-)


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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1816217 -

MJ - yes i have seen your interesting pictures. I think it is rarer to find P. cyanescens in a natural setting in England than in the Pacific northwest. In England they grow on many types of woodchips, often a mixture of types, and it seems most frequently and prolifically under conifers, but sometimes without associated plants. These is a lot of debate of course as to how closely the mushroom called P. cyanescens in the Pacific northwest is related to the English shroom of the same name.

Paid - yes I would be interested in your P. cyan data. I could pass these on to Kew if you like, and you can send dried material to the mycology house. So you worked at Kew eh, great place isn't it :-) The location data would be confidential and not revealed in detail in any publication.
Good luck with your liberty cap cultivation efforts. There are a lot of patches growing around my house, so if you require any more prints during the season I'll be happy to send. I will also post the names of grass species mentioned by that paper I cited at some point.
If you have the space I recommend starting some outdoor P. cyanescens beds as these can be extraordinarily productive in the UK. P. cyanescens naturally grow in very dense clusters (literally thousands in a few square metres), produce multiple, abundant flushes, and fruitbodies that are much larger than those of liberty caps (English strains usually 3-10 fresh caps for a good trip), so cyan beds in my opinion are really worth the effort. Can supply fresh prints during season.

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: pluteus]
    #1816241 -

I've been making beds of Psilocybe azurescens, Psilocybe bohemica, Psilocybe cyanescens, Psilocybe arcana and last but not least, mainly
Psilocybe subaeruginosa all summer. Because subaer's seem to colonise every wood type I've tried them on so far :-)

I should be ok for spore prints from libs, but i am after the Spanish liberty cap. Thank you for the offer though, were you at the bgg?

I'll compile the data, and dig up the dryed specimen on the poss Ps. cyan



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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: Paid]
    #1817946 -

liberty caps dont need dung at all. i've seen them grow regulary in certain local city parks, with no dung.

the most amazing crop i ever found was on a pair of bowling greens in one of the parks, only found them one year (ive checked every year since :wink: ), but u seriously wouldnt believe it. it was like a carpet of huge liberty caps covering each bownling green, 2-3cm caps on each, touching each other right across it.

for those that dont know, bowling greens are turfed areas, mowed really short & covered with sand to stop the grass from growing too much.

me & 2 friends picked 250 in under 10 minutes (before we were moved by park keepers), my friends went back later to finish the job & picked around 600.

only slight problem was sandy shrooms :wink:

they only seem to grow on high land, around here (northern england) at least.

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Re: Liberty Cap question [Re: ken1]
    #1819436 -

hey Paid, I did not realize you were a seasoned wood substrate cultivator, that is great. I grow cyan + azure and at the moment I am playing around with P. argentipes, have you tried out this species? I have a contact who keeps promising to send me subaeruginosa but no luck yet. I don't know what the 'bgg' is, some sort of mushroom convention? I go to the academic ones...
Ken - I have also found village and bowling greens good spots for liberties. The fact that the ground is rolled flat and the grass is kept mown short makes picking easy, and they seem to flourish on greens that have not seen any fresh manure in decades.

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Hunting and Identification
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