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Noob Grow - BRF Cakes -> Agar
    #25980086 -

This is a NOOB'S grow-log. While I hope this post is a beneficial read for other new growers like me, don't take my steps as advise. Instead, reference many of the great TEKs out there. A list of my favorites is available here (must have an account to view)

When I set out on my journey, I was initially inspired by a YouTube video w/ 500,000 views posted earlier this year. The creator made growing mushrooms seem like it would take a few hours, so I was eager to give it a shot. Eventually, I found this forum however, and I learned that his method (MS syringe to Grain Spawn) was not recommended. The video's creator assured otherwise.

I decided to not fully trust the video, but still give his try a shot. That shot failed; one of my bags spawned full of mold and the other never made mycelium because (as many here attest) MS Syringes are rarely clean. There were too many 'contaminants' in the syringes I ordered.

However, all was not lost. Although I did try the video's method, I also decided to simultaneously try EvilMushroom666's BRF TEK. This required quite a few purchases (torches, jars, drills, perlite, etc), but I felt that I wanted to learn more about this hobby regardless of what worked and what didn't, so to me it was all a worthwhile investment.

Then, in early May I got to work.



Within a few days, I saw some growth, but it turned out to not be the "good kind":

  soon led to...

I tossed all of the jars above. Only 5 now remained. Turns out one of my syringes was heavily contaminated, where even BRF wouldn't work. My OTHER syringe however, was clean enough that the mycelium took hold after a few days.



By June, I had 5 colonized jars. Not all were totally complete, b/c I decided it would be "safer" not to punch my finishing nails all the way through the Mason Jar lids. That led to me not being able to inject at multiple sites, so the cakes grew really unevenly. I will not be repeating this mistake, but in the end the cakes mostly seemed okay:

       

A week later, I had my cakes all sitting in a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber (SGFC) as EvilMushroom's TEK recommends. There were contamination-scares along that path that are detailed in the depths of this forum post.



Within mere days, I began to see substantial growth on one of my cakes:



And within HALF A DAY that cake went from "I have pretty mushrooms" to "I dropped spores everywhere" (not ideal). Ooops.

3PM:
11PM:
2AM:

The important thing I missed was the "veils" dropping:


Nevertheless, I've pressed on. After harvesting those mushrooms, dunking and re-seating that cake, I've seen growth on a 2nd cake while I await further progress on my 1st-ever Noob Grow!




Cheers!

- MG

Edited by MushroomGrub (06/25/19 06:07 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980134 -

Looking good. Those are smaller jars than I used to use. I always used 1/2pint jars but those should work. It's more important that the jars aren't too big. They may dry out a little faster unless you're planning to crumble the cakes to bulk. Now the rye that you inoculated may or may not take hold. It's usually advised not to go spore to grain because spore are inherently dirty. It's recommended to go agar to grain so you know you're working with a clean culture. I personally sometimes go spore to grain I just expect only half my bags to colonize without at least some bacterial contam. i then spawn that to bulk so I can pick a good cluster to clone. There's probably no real benefit from doing that vs isolating a substrain on agar, it's just how I like to start a new strain.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980169 -

Thanks for the tips! I do plan on attempting AGAR to grain once my agar has been grown out. In the meantime, I can see if either of my 2lb grain bags work out (however unlikely).

Big question though from what you said about BRF cakes drying out. How long might that take? Should I use my humidifer to combat that? I actually am going overseas for a few weeks and won't be able to attend to them until I return.


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MushroomGrub's Cultivation Portal

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980227 -

If your gonna make a shotgun FC you will need to be home during fruiting. You need to mist and fan that thing a couple times a day for best results. If you left them in the shotgun fc while you left I can pretty much garantee they'd be dried out in just a couple days and that's if you already live in a humid environment. The humidifier may help but I doubt it will be enough. I would suggest just letting them colonize and sticking them in the fridge before you leave (if they're 100% colonized)so they don't fruit in vitro while you're gone. You could also build a poor man's pod FC. They're a bit more difficult to dial in than a shotgun FC but when they're made right you don't really have to worry about drying out. However a few weeks is a long time to be away from a grow no matter what setup you use. It's very possible they might fruit and over ripen before you get home to harvest.
Edit: putting a culture in the fridge is a good way to slow it down until you're ready to take the next course of action. Remember fridges are dirty though so it wouldn't hurt to put the jars inside a large enough ziploc bag first

Edited by KapnDank (05/08/19 04:48 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980240 -

Are those 4oz (1/4 pint) regular  or 8oz (1/2 pint) wide mouth jars? I just noticed the Tek you're using recommends the wide mouth version of the 1/2 pint


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980465 -

None of those jars look good to me. Compare your jars to evilmushrooms near the end. His is completely white while yours has discoloration in the middle with white on the edges. IDK what your growing but it ain't mycelium in any of those jars.

Edited by Bbaron (05/08/19 06:38 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980517 -

I agree, the outline is weird. They start in spots or streaks and spread. When it outlines the grain like that it's usually at the end of colonization and indicates a contaminant colony in your grain jars, yeasts are the most common culprits. I've never seen all the jars start aground a contaminant colony, that's something else.


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My no pour Petri TEK - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/27252059/page/1

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980522 -

I've actually had some jars start off looking like that before and after a day or two they thickened up and colonized and then fruited well. I think the spores were just a little old. that's why I didn't comment on them. I was waiting for an updated pic in a day or two.
Edit: now y'all have me looking closer and I can see some color in a couple of the jars. Lol now I feel like an ass lol. That being said unless the lighting is just showing the color better in those couple jars the rest of the jars still look like jars I've fruited before from what I believe where old spores.


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Edited by KapnDank (05/08/19 06:59 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Professor X]
    #25980569 -

@KapnDank They are 1/2 pint jars as the TEK recommended. I intend to be home during fruiting, but will be gone for a little more than 2 weeks while the jars are colonizing. They were inoculated 3 days ago. I did get a little mini-fridge specifically for Agar. It should fit at least 5 jars while I'm gone. Won't the Ziploc bag starve them of air though?

Professor X said:
I agree, the outline is weird. They start in spots or streaks and spread. When it outlines the grain like that it's usually at the end of colonization and indicates a contaminant colony in your grain jars, yeasts are the most common culprits. I've never seen all the jars start aground a contaminant colony, that's something else.


Sad to hear that the growth looks off so far, 5 of the jars are growing that way. Hopefully it ends up not being an issue. One mistake I made on EVERY jar is that I did NOT "bleed" the syringe after sterilizing it. So i pushed in really hot air at first during my injections.

Bbaron said:
None of those jars look good to me. Compare your jars to evilmushrooms near the end. His is completely white while yours has discoloration in the middle with white on the edges. IDK what your growing but it ain't mycelium in any of those jars.


Appreciate the input! On this front, I'm only 3 days post-inoculation so I believe I've got a lot of time left before I'd compare them to his end-shots. Right?

Thanks SO much for the input fam. It's great to know what I'm dealing with since I've put so much time and money into trying to learn and be equipped.

Edit: The blue which can be seen in the photos is actually not present in the jars themselves. It seems to be a reflection of the light I was holding which caused that effect. Will try to fix this for photos going forward.


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MushroomGrub's Cultivation Portal

Edited by MushroomGrub (05/08/19 07:24 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980576 -

Yeah it's kind of a crap shoot with a Ms syringe esp with older spores. It's just the first 5 that look off. Hopefully the rest will be fine. You may see growth in those jars in the next 3-4 days.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980631 -

Oh yeah just noticed on your procedure also ...the dry verm layer to hold out contaminates is probably getting beat out because you are holding the jars sideways while inoculating. Either it's mixing with the flour when you are doing that or it's so out of place contaminates are able to get through. You have a sab and that is great! just when verm is your filter you need to inoculate while the jars are set down. If you have no room just inoculate outside the sab.the brf Tek is the only one I wouldn't worry too much about working outside a sab.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980702 -

MushroomGrub said:
@KapnDank They are 1/2 pint jars as the TEK recommended. I intend to be home during fruiting, but will be gone for a little more than 2 weeks while the jars are colonizing. They were inoculated 3 days ago. I did get a little mini-fridge specifically for Agar. It should fit at least 5 jars while I'm gone. Won't the Ziploc bag starve them of air though?

Professor X said:
I agree, the outline is weird. They start in spots or streaks and spread. When it outlines the grain like that it's usually at the end of colonization and indicates a contaminant colony in your grain jars, yeasts are the most common culprits. I've never seen all the jars start aground a contaminant colony, that's something else.


Sad to hear that the growth looks off so far, 5 of the jars are growing that way. Hopefully it ends up not being an issue. One mistake I made on EVERY jar is that I did NOT "bleed" the syringe after sterilizing it. So i pushed in really hot air at first during my injections.

Bbaron said:
None of those jars look good to me. Compare your jars to evilmushrooms near the end. His is completely white while yours has discoloration in the middle with white on the edges. IDK what your growing but it ain't mycelium in any of those jars.


Appreciate the input! On this front, I'm only 3 days post-inoculation so I believe I've got a lot of time left before I'd compare them to his end-shots. Right?

Thanks SO much for the input fam. It's great to know what I'm dealing with since I've put so much time and money into trying to learn and be equipped.

Edit: The blue which can be seen in the photos is actually not present in the jars themselves. It seems to be a reflection of the light I was holding which caused that effect. Will try to fix this for photos going forward.


No problem, I'm here to help! Its not just the discoloration in the picture the white in the jars ain't right either. It doesn't look like that or grow that way. The only thing that looks a little like mycelium is a tiny dot of pure white in your second jar. I'd give it a few days if you want but if it doesn't look any better you should just toss it.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980800 -

As far as the ziploc goes with starving for GE chilling the culture should slow down all metabolic processes(don't quote me on that lol) and since it would already be 100% the air in the bag should be plenty for no longer than what they would be stored. But if you're just going to be gone during colonization just let them do their thing. You wouldn't have had to worry about drying out until the fruiting stage however since those are 1/2 pint and not the 4oz jars I originally thought, you shouldn't expect premature drying out.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980836 -

KapnDank said:
But if you're just going to be gone during colonization just let them do their thing. You wouldn't have had to worry about drying out until the fruiting stage however since those are 1/2 pint and not the 4oz jars I originally thought, you shouldn't expect premature drying out.


Perfect. I will be gone during colonization. Great to hear I didn't mess up in my planning. :cool:


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MushroomGrub's Cultivation Portal

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980838 -

After taking in everyone's comments, letting a day pass, and referencing "how it should look by Tmethyl", I'm thinking these are contam'd.

Here are more detailed photos that were taken just now (approx. 30 hours after previous photos). As sad as I am to say it... nothing looks like mycelium to me except that one tiny dot Bbaron pointed out in the middle of Jar #4 in the photos below.



Here are examples of 'cobweb' mold I think these jars are subject to:

 

If I can get verification from some people here... do I need to dispatch of these to make sure they don't contaminate my other remaining jars? The Agar I plan to do tomorrow. Etc?

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980858 -

MushroomGrub said:
If I can get verification from some people here... do I need to dispatch of these to make sure they don't contaminate my other remaining jars? The Agar I plan to do tomorrow. Etc?


One sealed jar won't contaminate another, so no harm in seeing what happens, but that doesn't look like healthy growth to me. Sorry. If they don't get better (myc varies and sometimes it's hard to tell until it grows more), just be sure to dump them away from your work area so whatever contamination is there doesn't spread places where it'll put your future grows at risk. Everyone has failed jars so don't worry too much about it, but these ones are definitely suspect.

And in your case, if you have growth 3 days after inoculating with spores, it's almost definitely contamination. Germination of spores adds a week or two to the timeline compared to using live myc from agar or a similar source, so 3 days probably means the syringe had mold or bacteria that already germinated. If you can get to doing agar, you can still use what's left from the spores to make petri plates, but going straight to grains or cakes is probably not going to work with those syringes.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Durgin]
    #25980982 -

:whathesaid:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25984198 -

Updating here and at the top of the thread:

Since I'm about to head out of town, I'm preparing to dispose of the five jars from Syringe #1 outside today, unless someone were to advise against it? Here's what most are looking like:



Meanwhile, we have some good fortune on the other five jars from Syringe #2!



Thanks for all the input so far everyone :heart:

Going also be trying to do some agar pours this afternoon, and plan to post those after they have a few weeks of growth on them. One question though... Do I let them grow inside the fridge while away (2-3 weeks)? Or outside the fridge at room temp? I expect they'll have a lot of contams on the plates since they'll be straight from MS.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25984602 -

Syringe #1 is toast. #2 looking good though. I don't like to start agar without knowing I'll at least be there for the first few days of growth. Some contams you wait for the mycelium to run away from so you can take a clean transfer while others you want to transfer immediately or the contam will soon make taking a clean transfer really difficult. You also would want to wait until you see mycelium before sticking them in the fridge or they will not germinate.leavibg them out to colonize could go either way. Personally I'd save the syringes for the cakes. Pm me and I'll send you a couple prints for your agar work. I have Alacabenzi and Golden teachers i can share with ya

Edited by KapnDank (05/10/19 06:25 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26030655 -

So after a few weeks of patience, I'm back to update on each of my three methods:

AGAR: I will be pouring and colonizing my AGAR plates later this week.
Grain Bags:  The bags seems to be a lost cause ~ one is covered in cobweb mold and the other shows no signs of mycelium.
Jars: I've disposed of the 5 cobweb jars, and the remaining 5 seem to be looking good! I've placed photos below for input on whether I should begin birthing, or wait longer.

One mistake I made was injecting through all 4 holes on certain jars, but only 1-2 on others. This is b/c I left some of the holes too small to fit my syringe.

Consequently, one of my jars is much further behind the others. Should I wait for it to finish, or do I risk allowing the other jars to deteriorate?

Also, water is now pooling at the bottom of most jars. Is this a problem?

Thanks for all the help and guidance so far on this project.

Jar 1


Jar 2


Jar 3


Jar 4


Jar 5


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