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Noob Grow - BRF Cakes -> Agar
    #25980086 -

This is a NOOB'S grow-log. While I hope this post is a beneficial read for other new growers like me, don't take my steps as advise. Instead, reference many of the great TEKs out there. A list of my favorites is available here (must have an account to view)

When I set out on my journey, I was initially inspired by a YouTube video w/ 500,000 views posted earlier this year. The creator made growing mushrooms seem like it would take a few hours, so I was eager to give it a shot. Eventually, I found this forum however, and I learned that his method (MS syringe to Grain Spawn) was not recommended. The video's creator assured otherwise.

I decided to not fully trust the video, but still give his try a shot. That shot failed; one of my bags spawned full of mold and the other never made mycelium because (as many here attest) MS Syringes are rarely clean. There were too many 'contaminants' in the syringes I ordered.

However, all was not lost. Although I did try the video's method, I also decided to simultaneously try EvilMushroom666's BRF TEK. This required quite a few purchases (torches, jars, drills, perlite, etc), but I felt that I wanted to learn more about this hobby regardless of what worked and what didn't, so to me it was all a worthwhile investment.

Then, in early May I got to work.



Within a few days, I saw some growth, but it turned out to not be the "good kind":

  soon led to...

I tossed all of the jars above. Only 5 now remained. Turns out one of my syringes was heavily contaminated, where even BRF wouldn't work. My OTHER syringe however, was clean enough that the mycelium took hold after a few days.



By June, I had 5 colonized jars. Not all were totally complete, b/c I decided it would be "safer" not to punch my finishing nails all the way through the Mason Jar lids. That led to me not being able to inject at multiple sites, so the cakes grew really unevenly. I will not be repeating this mistake, but in the end the cakes mostly seemed okay:

       

A week later, I had my cakes all sitting in a Shotgun Fruiting Chamber (SGFC) as EvilMushroom's TEK recommends. There were contamination-scares along that path that are detailed in the depths of this forum post.



Within mere days, I began to see substantial growth on one of my cakes:



And within HALF A DAY that cake went from "I have pretty mushrooms" to "I dropped spores everywhere" (not ideal). Ooops.

3PM:
11PM:
2AM:

The important thing I missed was the "veils" dropping:


Nevertheless, I've pressed on. After harvesting those mushrooms, dunking and re-seating that cake, I've seen growth on a 2nd cake while I await further progress on my 1st-ever Noob Grow!




Cheers!

- MG

Edited by MushroomGrub (06/25/19 06:07 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980134 -

Looking good. Those are smaller jars than I used to use. I always used 1/2pint jars but those should work. It's more important that the jars aren't too big. They may dry out a little faster unless you're planning to crumble the cakes to bulk. Now the rye that you inoculated may or may not take hold. It's usually advised not to go spore to grain because spore are inherently dirty. It's recommended to go agar to grain so you know you're working with a clean culture. I personally sometimes go spore to grain I just expect only half my bags to colonize without at least some bacterial contam. i then spawn that to bulk so I can pick a good cluster to clone. There's probably no real benefit from doing that vs isolating a substrain on agar, it's just how I like to start a new strain.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980169 -

Thanks for the tips! I do plan on attempting AGAR to grain once my agar has been grown out. In the meantime, I can see if either of my 2lb grain bags work out (however unlikely).

Big question though from what you said about BRF cakes drying out. How long might that take? Should I use my humidifer to combat that? I actually am going overseas for a few weeks and won't be able to attend to them until I return.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980227 -

If your gonna make a shotgun FC you will need to be home during fruiting. You need to mist and fan that thing a couple times a day for best results. If you left them in the shotgun fc while you left I can pretty much garantee they'd be dried out in just a couple days and that's if you already live in a humid environment. The humidifier may help but I doubt it will be enough. I would suggest just letting them colonize and sticking them in the fridge before you leave (if they're 100% colonized)so they don't fruit in vitro while you're gone. You could also build a poor man's pod FC. They're a bit more difficult to dial in than a shotgun FC but when they're made right you don't really have to worry about drying out. However a few weeks is a long time to be away from a grow no matter what setup you use. It's very possible they might fruit and over ripen before you get home to harvest.
Edit: putting a culture in the fridge is a good way to slow it down until you're ready to take the next course of action. Remember fridges are dirty though so it wouldn't hurt to put the jars inside a large enough ziploc bag first

Edited by KapnDank (05/08/19 04:48 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980240 -

Are those 4oz (1/4 pint) regular  or 8oz (1/2 pint) wide mouth jars? I just noticed the Tek you're using recommends the wide mouth version of the 1/2 pint


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980465 -

None of those jars look good to me. Compare your jars to evilmushrooms near the end. His is completely white while yours has discoloration in the middle with white on the edges. IDK what your growing but it ain't mycelium in any of those jars.

Edited by Bbaron (05/08/19 06:38 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980517 -

I agree, the outline is weird. They start in spots or streaks and spread. When it outlines the grain like that it's usually at the end of colonization and indicates a contaminant colony in your grain jars, yeasts are the most common culprits. I've never seen all the jars start aground a contaminant colony, that's something else.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980522 -

I've actually had some jars start off looking like that before and after a day or two they thickened up and colonized and then fruited well. I think the spores were just a little old. that's why I didn't comment on them. I was waiting for an updated pic in a day or two.
Edit: now y'all have me looking closer and I can see some color in a couple of the jars. Lol now I feel like an ass lol. That being said unless the lighting is just showing the color better in those couple jars the rest of the jars still look like jars I've fruited before from what I believe where old spores.


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Edited by KapnDank (05/08/19 06:59 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Professor X]
    #25980569 -

@KapnDank They are 1/2 pint jars as the TEK recommended. I intend to be home during fruiting, but will be gone for a little more than 2 weeks while the jars are colonizing. They were inoculated 3 days ago. I did get a little mini-fridge specifically for Agar. It should fit at least 5 jars while I'm gone. Won't the Ziploc bag starve them of air though?

Professor X said:
I agree, the outline is weird. They start in spots or streaks and spread. When it outlines the grain like that it's usually at the end of colonization and indicates a contaminant colony in your grain jars, yeasts are the most common culprits. I've never seen all the jars start aground a contaminant colony, that's something else.


Sad to hear that the growth looks off so far, 5 of the jars are growing that way. Hopefully it ends up not being an issue. One mistake I made on EVERY jar is that I did NOT "bleed" the syringe after sterilizing it. So i pushed in really hot air at first during my injections.

Bbaron said:
None of those jars look good to me. Compare your jars to evilmushrooms near the end. His is completely white while yours has discoloration in the middle with white on the edges. IDK what your growing but it ain't mycelium in any of those jars.


Appreciate the input! On this front, I'm only 3 days post-inoculation so I believe I've got a lot of time left before I'd compare them to his end-shots. Right?

Thanks SO much for the input fam. It's great to know what I'm dealing with since I've put so much time and money into trying to learn and be equipped.

Edit: The blue which can be seen in the photos is actually not present in the jars themselves. It seems to be a reflection of the light I was holding which caused that effect. Will try to fix this for photos going forward.


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MushroomGrub's Cultivation Portal

Edited by MushroomGrub (05/08/19 07:24 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980576 -

Yeah it's kind of a crap shoot with a Ms syringe esp with older spores. It's just the first 5 that look off. Hopefully the rest will be fine. You may see growth in those jars in the next 3-4 days.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980631 -

Oh yeah just noticed on your procedure also ...the dry verm layer to hold out contaminates is probably getting beat out because you are holding the jars sideways while inoculating. Either it's mixing with the flour when you are doing that or it's so out of place contaminates are able to get through. You have a sab and that is great! just when verm is your filter you need to inoculate while the jars are set down. If you have no room just inoculate outside the sab.the brf Tek is the only one I wouldn't worry too much about working outside a sab.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980702 -

MushroomGrub said:
@KapnDank They are 1/2 pint jars as the TEK recommended. I intend to be home during fruiting, but will be gone for a little more than 2 weeks while the jars are colonizing. They were inoculated 3 days ago. I did get a little mini-fridge specifically for Agar. It should fit at least 5 jars while I'm gone. Won't the Ziploc bag starve them of air though?

Professor X said:
I agree, the outline is weird. They start in spots or streaks and spread. When it outlines the grain like that it's usually at the end of colonization and indicates a contaminant colony in your grain jars, yeasts are the most common culprits. I've never seen all the jars start aground a contaminant colony, that's something else.


Sad to hear that the growth looks off so far, 5 of the jars are growing that way. Hopefully it ends up not being an issue. One mistake I made on EVERY jar is that I did NOT "bleed" the syringe after sterilizing it. So i pushed in really hot air at first during my injections.

Bbaron said:
None of those jars look good to me. Compare your jars to evilmushrooms near the end. His is completely white while yours has discoloration in the middle with white on the edges. IDK what your growing but it ain't mycelium in any of those jars.


Appreciate the input! On this front, I'm only 3 days post-inoculation so I believe I've got a lot of time left before I'd compare them to his end-shots. Right?

Thanks SO much for the input fam. It's great to know what I'm dealing with since I've put so much time and money into trying to learn and be equipped.

Edit: The blue which can be seen in the photos is actually not present in the jars themselves. It seems to be a reflection of the light I was holding which caused that effect. Will try to fix this for photos going forward.


No problem, I'm here to help! Its not just the discoloration in the picture the white in the jars ain't right either. It doesn't look like that or grow that way. The only thing that looks a little like mycelium is a tiny dot of pure white in your second jar. I'd give it a few days if you want but if it doesn't look any better you should just toss it.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Bbaron]
    #25980800 -

As far as the ziploc goes with starving for GE chilling the culture should slow down all metabolic processes(don't quote me on that lol) and since it would already be 100% the air in the bag should be plenty for no longer than what they would be stored. But if you're just going to be gone during colonization just let them do their thing. You wouldn't have had to worry about drying out until the fruiting stage however since those are 1/2 pint and not the 4oz jars I originally thought, you shouldn't expect premature drying out.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25980836 -

KapnDank said:
But if you're just going to be gone during colonization just let them do their thing. You wouldn't have had to worry about drying out until the fruiting stage however since those are 1/2 pint and not the 4oz jars I originally thought, you shouldn't expect premature drying out.


Perfect. I will be gone during colonization. Great to hear I didn't mess up in my planning. :cool:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980838 -

After taking in everyone's comments, letting a day pass, and referencing "how it should look by Tmethyl", I'm thinking these are contam'd.

Here are more detailed photos that were taken just now (approx. 30 hours after previous photos). As sad as I am to say it... nothing looks like mycelium to me except that one tiny dot Bbaron pointed out in the middle of Jar #4 in the photos below.



Here are examples of 'cobweb' mold I think these jars are subject to:

 

If I can get verification from some people here... do I need to dispatch of these to make sure they don't contaminate my other remaining jars? The Agar I plan to do tomorrow. Etc?

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25980858 -

MushroomGrub said:
If I can get verification from some people here... do I need to dispatch of these to make sure they don't contaminate my other remaining jars? The Agar I plan to do tomorrow. Etc?


One sealed jar won't contaminate another, so no harm in seeing what happens, but that doesn't look like healthy growth to me. Sorry. If they don't get better (myc varies and sometimes it's hard to tell until it grows more), just be sure to dump them away from your work area so whatever contamination is there doesn't spread places where it'll put your future grows at risk. Everyone has failed jars so don't worry too much about it, but these ones are definitely suspect.

And in your case, if you have growth 3 days after inoculating with spores, it's almost definitely contamination. Germination of spores adds a week or two to the timeline compared to using live myc from agar or a similar source, so 3 days probably means the syringe had mold or bacteria that already germinated. If you can get to doing agar, you can still use what's left from the spores to make petri plates, but going straight to grains or cakes is probably not going to work with those syringes.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Durgin]
    #25980982 -

:whathesaid:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #25984198 -

Updating here and at the top of the thread:

Since I'm about to head out of town, I'm preparing to dispose of the five jars from Syringe #1 outside today, unless someone were to advise against it? Here's what most are looking like:



Meanwhile, we have some good fortune on the other five jars from Syringe #2!



Thanks for all the input so far everyone :heart:

Going also be trying to do some agar pours this afternoon, and plan to post those after they have a few weeks of growth on them. One question though... Do I let them grow inside the fridge while away (2-3 weeks)? Or outside the fridge at room temp? I expect they'll have a lot of contams on the plates since they'll be straight from MS.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #25984602 -

Syringe #1 is toast. #2 looking good though. I don't like to start agar without knowing I'll at least be there for the first few days of growth. Some contams you wait for the mycelium to run away from so you can take a clean transfer while others you want to transfer immediately or the contam will soon make taking a clean transfer really difficult. You also would want to wait until you see mycelium before sticking them in the fridge or they will not germinate.leavibg them out to colonize could go either way. Personally I'd save the syringes for the cakes. Pm me and I'll send you a couple prints for your agar work. I have Alacabenzi and Golden teachers i can share with ya

Edited by KapnDank (05/10/19 06:25 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26030655 -

So after a few weeks of patience, I'm back to update on each of my three methods:

AGAR: I will be pouring and colonizing my AGAR plates later this week.
Grain Bags:  The bags seems to be a lost cause ~ one is covered in cobweb mold and the other shows no signs of mycelium.
Jars: I've disposed of the 5 cobweb jars, and the remaining 5 seem to be looking good! I've placed photos below for input on whether I should begin birthing, or wait longer.

One mistake I made was injecting through all 4 holes on certain jars, but only 1-2 on others. This is b/c I left some of the holes too small to fit my syringe.

Consequently, one of my jars is much further behind the others. Should I wait for it to finish, or do I risk allowing the other jars to deteriorate?

Also, water is now pooling at the bottom of most jars. Is this a problem?

Thanks for all the help and guidance so far on this project.

Jar 1


Jar 2


Jar 3


Jar 4


Jar 5


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26030727 -

They look good. That is a good bit of pooling. Turn them upside down at this point and let them finish up. Put them preferably on a wire rack do there's space below the lid for air to flow. Otherwise sit it on a soda cap lid to allow a gap between the lid and the surface the jar's sitting on. It should also redistribute that pooling ater. The extra GE from flipping them upside down will speed colonization back up. And if that other jar isn't finished when the others are ready just fruit the colonized ones and allow it to finish up. Or let the other jars sit while it finishes and only fruit them  if they start pinning before that jar is colonized


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26030995 -

Thanks KapnDank!

I'll get a rack set up and flip them all over. Appreciate the advice and input that everything is looking healthy :smile:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26032848 -

Woke up today to some knotting/pinning in two of my jars. Could anyone let me know how urgently I need to birth these? I have a lot going on today/tomorrow...



I'm also considering splitting out one or two of my 1/2pint jars as spawn for a bulk grow since both my grain bags failed. It feels like this would be easy, but was wondering if anyone would recommend against last-minute changes as a newbie. I'd have to kind of wing-it with everything going on atm.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26032851 -

I would birth that soon.

Spawning a cake to bulk for a noobie is risky but if u follow the tek method, u *should* be fine.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26033085 -

LogicaL Chaos said:
I would birth that soon.

Spawning a cake to bulk for a noobie is risky but if u follow the tek method, u *should* be fine.


:whathesaid:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26035344 -

Hey gang,

So I birthed/dunked the four mature cakes today and made a big mistake. Upon opening the final jar, I spotted a little spot of white cobweb mold on the protective verm layer. It was small so I thought the cake might be okay. WRONG. I slid the cake out and it was absolutely covered in white cobweb mold.

The other three cakes were nearby and floating in the water to dunk. I dunked them asap, sprayed air disinfectant to hopefully grab some of the spores, and then wiped up the floor. Are there any other protective measures I can take at this point? Increase outside airflow? etc?

As always, deep gratitude <3

- MG


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26035508 -

Colonized cakes/substrates(plates, grains)are resistant to contaminants: you birthed them in open air FULL of them
:rollsafe:

Are you sure it's cobweb/mold, and not wispy myc? Any pix?

I Think spawning them to slightly under field capacity coir in shoeboxes is best bet personally... I DESPISE fruiting cakes though so :shrug: 


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26036693 -

Caps,

After putting other cakes in SGFC I took the 'cobweb' one outside for inspection. Turns out you are correct, it was mycelium that had grown up towards the air and verm layer. The connective hyphae were clearly visible upon closer inspection, and I had just overreacted upon seeing some wispy mycelium.

Thanks for your input. I've gone ahead and dunked the cake and will seat it with the others tomorrow.

Much appreciated!!


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26036726 -

EDIT 1: NEVER MIND I missed like 2 days of comments. :facepalm:

EDIT 2: Here's how I spawn to bulk in a shoebox. It goes over "just under field capacity" for you. Also shows you that you can just TOUCH THIS STUFF. It's fine when it's colonized. Mycelium is contam resistant, the substrate isn't. I've shredded to bulk. It was fun. It contaminated after the second flush, but :shrug: idc


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My Shoebox Factory Beginner's Tek | Shoebox Assembly Tek | Methodology/teks I use | How I Store Bulk Items

Edited by ShaperDreaming (06/06/19 03:57 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26036985 -

Awesome... save a cake day!


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26040096 -

Progress update:

We've got 4/5 cakes in the SGFC. The last one is lagging b/c only one injection port could fit the MS syringe (doh!)

My main areas of concern are FAE/fanning, temperature (it hits ~85% in the chamber in afternoon), and misting the proper amount and hitting the back of the cakes.

I welcome ANY input/feedback. Thanks again so much to everyone who has helped me on this journey. We have our first signs of growth!! :mushroom2: :rocket:



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Edited by MushroomGrub (06/08/19 12:09 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26043357 -

So, the only thing I can think of is that you should have likely rinsed off the jar's verm filter better. The point is that it takes and holds any contam keeping it away from the cake. So if any contam did get onto that layer then it's in there :shrug:

Otherwise looking great! Those are full pins!


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My Shoebox Factory Beginner's Tek | Shoebox Assembly Tek | Methodology/teks I use | How I Store Bulk Items

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26044277 -

If you do run into difficulty keeping the RH high enough just add some more wet pearlite to the tub. Looking good though. SGFC's take a lot of maintainence IMO. Really just a lot of misting and fanning. Think I'm about to bust mine back out to try some pan cyan trays though so it's worth holding onto if you decide to move to tubs.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26044282 -

KapnDank said:
Think I'm about to bust mine back out to try some pan cyan trays though so it's worth holding onto if you decide to move to tubs.


JOIN ME!


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26044308 -

ShaperDreaming said:
KapnDank said:
Think I'm about to bust mine back out to try some pan cyan trays though so it's worth holding onto if you decide to move to tubs.


JOIN ME!


I'm actually gonna try Asura's approach except use the SGFC until I can build and tune in my GH. It's my first time working with pans. I bookmarked that though and will experiment with it a little later too. Sorry for jacking your thread MushroomGrub lol


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26048127 -

No stress! I was actually happy to see that I somehow connected people on another topic via my thread!

I do have a question tho? I'm getting serious aggressive growth on cake 'Caps Mcgee' (THANK YOU CAPS)

Since I'm very low on spores, I wanna secure a clone onto agar from this cake. I'm planning to clone from flush 1 and (hopefully) flush 2. How do I know when I should clone the big one I have below? Is the 'veil opening' very obvious? So far this is the best TEK I found (this one) but it doesn't have info on WHEN to clone...

Edit, adding photos:



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Edited by MushroomGrub (06/12/19 01:17 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26048271 -

MushroomGrub said:
Since I'm very low on spores, I wanna secure a clone onto agar from this cake. I'm planning to clone from flush 1 and (hopefully) flush 2. How do I know when I should clone the big one I have below? Is the 'veil opening' very obvious? So far this is the best TEK I found (this one) but it doesn't have info on WHEN to clone...


Doesn't matter. The genetic material doesn't change. You can take it anywhere from when it starts to pin/knot until it's dried up. Just make sure it's not dead/dehydrated (and even then, you can resuscitate it sometimes). Honestly, earlier is usually better since it gives nasties less time to get to it.

When you're low on genetic material GET-MORE-SPORE-PRINTS. This is super easy as fuck. After the veil breaks snip the cap, place it on a piece of aluminum foil, then put a small cup over the cap. Leave it for 8~hours then take the cap off and check for a print. If you got a good one, seal it up in some aluminum then put it in a baggie (don't forget to label it).



Clones are great, but they can shit the bed on you, and then you're stuck with VERY NARROW genetics. This is my current problem with a GT clone I've got going, I have a shitty performing clone (which kinda shocks me) and that means I have to go back to MS and try over again to get a good clone... but I didn't take a print, so ... I'm doomed essentially. Not that I care greatly about GTs, but still, it was kinda disappointing to realize.

Spore prints will last for years/forever. Your clone will run it's course much sooner. Get you some security.


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Edited by ShaperDreaming (06/12/19 02:23 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26048308 -

:whathesaid: clones can be hit or miss. There's usually a few substrains in each clone. Not all of them will be good. Taking prints should be priority then cloning


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26048319 -

Thanks! In my research I was seeing prints mostly being used for creating MS syringes. Any TEKs you'd recommend for taking spore print to Agar?

So happy to hear I can just make a print though. Sounds so much easier than taking a clone.

<3

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26048401 -

I use an inoculation loop. Heat the wire loop up and cool it by dipping in the agar on the plate. Pick up a tiny piece of agar(takes some practice) then rub the loop with the agar on it on your print. The agar on the loop will help spores stick to it better. One you have some spores on the loop streak the plate with it making an S shape on the dish. The S shape will better insure you'll have enough sectoring to choose the healthiest mycelium from.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26048430 -

WHERE THE FUCK DID MY POST GO? GAWDDDMANIT GRUMBLE

Ok, sorry here's the short of it:

Scroll down to Bod's spore print to agar video: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24337011/vc/1#24337011

Scroll down for the more info about the z-swipe thing he's talking about: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21922023


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26048510 -

Sounds quite straightforward. Thanks dude!

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26048519 -

It's stupid easy. You got this. Make more than one print too! You got a few caps there, PRINT THEM ALL :headbanger:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26048648 -

I just learned something new from one of those links. Gotta try out the cup of hot water to clear up condensation. Thanks ShaperDreaming you turned me on to something I missed. :thumbup:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26049233 -

Thanks for the encouragement! I fully plan to kick some ass and update :smile:

It APPEARS that I am set and ready to go, right? This is the veils dropping?

Planning to do it tomorrow. How do I know when to harvest everything tho, haha. They grew so fast I haven't had time to read a harvest TEK yet lolll.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26049320 -

Great pictures you got there! :cheers:

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26049324 -

Thanks for the encouragement!



Turns out these shrooms were ready to procreate. They caught me with a spore drop when I hadn't read enough on it. Guess I'll have to get more spores on my other cakes.

Edited by MushroomGrub (06/13/19 02:54 AM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26049356 -

Crap...

Blue-green growth. Penicillium? Trich? Do I toss the cake and shrooms out now?



Edit: Researching here... Looks like I can still harvest the shroomies. A little concerned since I'm harvesting so late, and don't want to spread spores, but it seems like I can still make use of them somewhat.

Edit 2: Okay, super late night for me, but I decided to harvest and begin dehydrating at 95F. I have dunked the cake and can re-seat it w/ the others tomorrow if that's the right thing to do. If not, I'll let that cake go. Definitely appreciate any knowledgeable input one way or the other. Other cake show no signs of contam so far. Planning to begin my spore prints as soon as the veils drop on the next cake!

Edited by MushroomGrub (06/13/19 03:26 AM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26049799 -

That's just bruising! You're fine. Likely they're too dry.

And print those fuckers! They don't dump spores forever. It was perfect here:

MushroomGrub said:




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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming] * 1
    #26050228 -

:whatshesaid: take some prints. You're a little late on the optimum time to harvest for prints but even a light print is better than no print and it's better to go ahead and get at least one and not just count on the 2nd flush. Don't wanna count your chickens before they hatch. You never know if your grow will contam before that 2nd flush matures.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26050262 -

Yeah, a light print will contain enough spores to make millions of agar plates. Here's some real lengthy shit Bod likes to repost about it:

bodhisatta said:
This is in reference to someone else asking about crossing monokaryons. So for me to personally believe anyone that's claiming monokaryotic growth i need the microscopic evidence to believe them.

bodhisatta said:
denger said:
bodhisatta said:
No that would be the third way. By the time you see mycelium on a dish its long been dikaryotic if you streaked out spores


That depends on the density of the streak. If it shows single colonies with some distance between them they could be monos with some probability.


I purposely diluted spores down quite a bit then streaked them. Looked at with a microscope there's still just too many spores. And spores like to clump. If you could dilute spores and also keep them from grabbing a partner then maybe. But even using jet dry or other surface tension agents wasn't able to get spores broken apart enough to get monokaryotic growth no matter how hard I tried. I think it would take a micromanipulator scope to achieve single spore monokaryotic growth reliably

Even with hefty agitation you'll see clumps like this


Diluted and streaked


If you made a 10cc syringe with the smallest speck of spores you can see its still too many spores


Even at the hardly visible growth phase they're long dikaryotic from streak plates(not super diluted in this case)



Ive played around a bunch with germination and trying to get monokaryotic growth but i think its out of the reach of hobby equipment


Spores clump like madmen despite your best efforts to make them disperse evenly





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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming] * 1
    #26050391 -

I'm so thankful for how invested you two have been in my success. Seriously.

At this point, I took the best-looking cap to print but it was quite shriveled since it had sat dehydrating at 95F overnight. I was so tired and not thinking clearly when I put them in.

I do have a 2nd cake that's looking good (the other two are really slow)...



If it goes at the same rate as Cake 1, it'll be ready for harvest in 2 days. I'll be sure to get some for printing if/when they're "perfect" like you referenced above Shaper.

I've read that spores cause the mycelium to fruit/grow less, so I'm not gambling on a flush #2 (if it comes, awesome, but let's be safe).

Thanks again for all your help on this journey :mushroom2:

Edit: One thing I noticed is all the fruit is growing near the SGFC's holes. Does this mean I should increase fanning? I haven't been fanning much b/c I read a lot that suggests it's not worth doing on SGFC cakes.


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Edited by MushroomGrub (06/13/19 02:43 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26050407 -

IME fanning a SGFC causes a lot more pins. Now after the pins form there's not as much benefit. I've had cobweb mold in a SGFC before and that's caused by stale air. So it wouldn't hurt to continue to fan through fruiting :shrug: your cakes were already showing some bruising from drying out though so I would add a little more damp pearlite to the chamber to increase RH. This comes at the cost of less FAE though so you'll want to increase your fanning a bit. This is how I always got the best performance out of a SGFC anyways.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26050419 -

MushroomGrub said:
I'm so thankful for how invested you two have been in my success. Seriously.


Keep taking pictures, lol. It's so much easier to help people who take good pictures. That whole 'worth a thousand words' thing and all.

I'll be way more help when you move up to shoeboxes :wink:

MushroomGrub said:
I've read that spores cause the mycelium to fruit/grow less, so I'm not gambling on a flush #2 (if it comes, awesome, but let's be safe).



Meh, not significantly enough. You'll get more than enough for a print.

Honestly, fanning or not, your cakes are pretty solid all around, not much room to improve. You're doing way better than you think you are :rofl: Gain some confidence!

Also 95 degrees? In a dehydrator? Crank that shit up ALL THE WAY. Mad Season explains how heat protects potency.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26050519 -

ShaperDreaming is right. You are doing really well. Much better than my first time :rofl:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26050526 -

Thank you both! :heart: Awesome to know I'm doing well ~ I was mostly sad that the cakes are only growing on one side, and only half have fruited, but there's a huge upside here as well... it's working! Dehydrator is now set to 160F :thumbup:

So, Dank. Do I remove the cakes and add the damp perlite on top or do I spray the perlite to make it wet again? I'll take care of that now.

And once I get my agar running from these spore prints I'd LOVE to give your new shoebox tek a try Shaper! It looks suited to beginners, has big yields, is new (so I don't have to worry about misinformation) and it's made by one of my first friends on the forums soooo :tongue:

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26050534 -

MushroomGrub said:
I was mostly sad that only half have fruited


If you're feeling spicy and want to experiement you could still try shredding and spawning those cakes to bulk.

MushroomGrub said:
And once I get my agar running from these spore prints I'd LOVE to give your new shoebox tek a try Shaper! It looks suited to beginners, has big yields, is new (so I don't have to worry about misinformation) and it's made by one of my first friends on the forums soooo :tongue:


:tellmeastory:

Flattery will get you everywhere :lol:

Also, yes, the first three times I started growing mushrooms were complete failures. Not a single cake with anything but horrible contamination. I would say anyone's first time growing mushrooms and actually getting mushrooms is honestly a huge success. Most people fail for a bit.


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Edited by ShaperDreaming (06/13/19 04:02 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26050561 -

Trying to grow as a teenager in your parents house without them knowing I wouldn't recommend lol. Looking back I don't know how I did it. Oh to be young and dumb lol. If your pearlite feels pretty dry just re-wet it and start spraying the pearlite to keep it moist when you mist your cakes. Be careful not to overdo it or it'll make a mess. If it dries out pretty fast remove the cakes and add another 1" or so of damp pearlite and replace cakes. Ideally you want to wait until you don't have any pins before adding more pearlite so you don't accidentally abort any removing the cakes from the fc


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26050562 -

KapnDank said:
Trying to grow as a teenager in your parents house without them knowing I wouldn't recommend lol. Looking back I don't know how I did it. Oh to be young and dumb lol.


I still remember the day I cam home from school and found my marijuana plants uprooted and thrown on top of the soil of my "hidden" aquariums. :blush:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26050814 -

The detail in your photos are incredible! :eek:

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26051344 -

Thanks man! I do some videography, and one of my pipe-dreams if I continue enjoying this is make really polished tutorials if/when psilocybin becomes more universally acceptable.

Nice to know what I bring to the table is enjoyed. :cool::thumbup:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26052787 -

Small update:

No progress on Cakes 1 & 2. Cake 4 was dunked for 24-hours and is now back in the chamber. Harvested about 1.5g dried from it.

Cake 3 has been showing bruising on the mushroom caps, so I significantly re-wet the perlite w/ about a liter of water spray as KapnDank suggested. Will add more damp perlite if/when cakes allow w/ pinning timings. I've increased fanning and water and the bruising seems to be lessening.

Interestingly, the growth on this cake is progressing very differently. Cake 4 (the one I harvested already) grew & dropped spores within a 36-hour timeframe, whereas Cake 3 has been fruiting for many days already. Cake 3 seems to be investing into growing the smaller mushrooms to get larger, rather than increasing the size of the already larger ones. This seems good from a yield perspective, since I'll have more larger mushrooms rather than many small ones.

Cake 3:

Yesterday:



Today:



Are those little strands at the base of the mushrooms indicative of anything I should be aware of (final picture)? Wanna make sure I'm giving them the best treatment possible :laugh:

Cheers!

Edit: One more question... to avoid contamination, I've been growing in a closet within minimal airflow. I keep the door open, but that's about it. Should I consider re-locating the SGFC to the bedroom to allow more airflow? The growth behavior really has me feeling like they're starving for FAE since everything on every cake is growing near the holes in the SGFC.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26052849 -

I've noticed dense clusters tend to mature more slowly. The clusters of small/medium mushrooms are what people usually tend to clone. Large more solitary fruits are a hell of a lot easier to harvest but they are a little harder to get dry and a general consensus is larger fruits are less potent on average than small/medium sized fruits. I've also had a clone that made massive fruits that were VERY potent but i think that was just luck. Also a lot of times the original clone i take is a much smaller fruit than the fruits that clone produces in later grows. :shrug:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26053957 -

To counter the blue bruising, I've increased my misting. Are the issues below indicative of over-misting? I am seeing caps split-open, pocked holes in caps, and a general... wilting?

Would love any input as I can tell I'm doing something wrong. My guess is too much water (especially since this occurred while the lights were off overnight)

Will upload photos as soon as it's back online (Upload Pics feature currently is down for repair)



Edited by MushroomGrub (06/16/19 04:45 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26053972 -

Caps splitting are usually indicative of too dry. The skin on the cap dies and stops growing but the bottom of the cap continues to grow causing it to split. Do you see any gnats in the fc? They'll be hard to see unless they're stirred up and moving around.  Also make sure you fan well after misting so you don't leave droplets on the caps. That'll cause bacteria on the caps. You could just have some mutants since you are doing MS. We need pics though to really know what's going on.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank] * 1
    #26054063 -

I saw one gnat a few days ago. Also, there is a musty smell coming even before this happened, ever since I wet the perlite and inserted the re-dunked Cake #4 (after 24-hour dunk).

I'll be sure to fan better after misting, assuming these are not bust.

Photos of Cake #3 below:



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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26054075 -

Start looking for larvae on the cakes. Anytime I've had a fungus gnat infestation my fruits started looking like that. I've also had mutants look like that.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26054106 -

No signs of larvae yet. I'll up both the misting and fanning, and keep an eye for any further gnats. If I spot any, it appears red wine is a decent way to feed em to death.

Thanks for the insights.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub] * 1
    #26054220 -

Even using the red wine/Apple cider vinegar method and fly traps those guys can be resilient pesky fuckers. I wouldn't mind spending an incarnation as a fungus gnat in a cube grow :rofl:


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Edited by KapnDank (06/15/19 03:24 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26054221 -

Also wouldn't hurt to pour some bleach in the drains in your house. They apparently breed in them


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank] * 1
    #26054660 -

Overmisting certainly will cause the caps to crack... The excess moisture sits on the tops too long without evaperating, and actually develops almost a film over them, which then cracks with growth...


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26055885 -

Thanks Caps. Given how I've been treating them, I think that may be what occurred here. Your input helps me lean into RR's comments about 'listening to your cakes', it did feel like too much water.

Musty smell is gone now :smile: no more flies spotted except that one ~3 days ago. Cake 3 began to prematurely sporulate last night. I printed some of the caps, but do these look good enough to eat? Harvested them last night, smelled a little weird but it may have been the severe bruising. No mold found as long as the white hairs are natural mushroom growth.

:laugh::mushroom2:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26055896 -

Definitely from overmisting, may be a little bacterial... heated dehydrator for 24 hours,  or make tea with them just to be sure... won't kill you  (typically) but could cause additional GI agitation


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26056022 -

Hey everyone!

Complete noob discovering the topic of growing mushrooms here. I just wanted to thank everyone for all the posts in this topic, it is giving a lot more confidence to get started in the process. I may start the same kind of post when I'll start growing.

Cheers!

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: grodzilluz]
    #26056073 -

Lamest first post of the year award goes to:
:amusedapplause:
CONGRATULATIONS GRODZILLUZ, COME ON DOWN TO CLAIM YOUR PRIZE!
:kittylaugh:

I'm just giving you shit... Welcome to mush cult, get your info here in the active forums, NOT in the archived shit Google will give you... use the site's search function, and watch dates on the threads you're looking at... Cross reference many to make intuitive judgements... :goodluck:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26056095 -

:whathesaid: welcome brother.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: grodzilluz]
    #26056145 -

grodzilluz said:
Hey everyone!

Complete noob discovering the topic of growing mushrooms here. I just wanted to thank everyone for all the posts in this topic, it is giving a lot more confidence to get started in the process. I may start the same kind of post when I'll start growing.

Cheers!


This was a really nice post to read for me. I put a fair amt of effort into making/updating that first post to be helpful to anyone intending to try cakes for their first grow. Glad to hear the thread's been of value!

Good luck if you decide to venture down this path grodzilluz and welcome to the club ^_^

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26056148 -

Oh Caps ~ I noticed you stepped away for a bit. Did you see that my best cake so far was the one you saved for me? Yielded 3.6g dry <3 <3 <3


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26056344 -

:rockon::rockon::rockon:

Need to shred a few (3-4)fully colonized cakes to coir in a shoebox: then (if you have/can get a pressure cooker) give grain a shot... you'll likely never fool with fruiting cakes and all that SGFC jazz again! It may seem intimidating,  but you're getring through the hard part once it's fully colonized: Brf especially, is fairly resistant to contaminants as is, but so is fully colonized grain spawn (which colonizes faster and is easier to mass produce...)


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26056421 -

I agree with caps. When I finally switched to grains I was actually pretty upset with myself for not doing it earlier (this is after years of making cakes). so much wasted effort and time into minimal results. Grains to bulk really isn't that much more difficult. There's actually a lot less maintenance to bulk too. If you want a nice middle ground you can try bags. It'll give you experience with spawning grains without the stress of learning to make and dial in a monotub (which is pretty easy too) these bags were WBS spawned to hpoo, coir, verm, gypsum, and a little pickling lime. 1st is GT the 2nd is Alacabenzi.

Edit:they were also fruited in the bag itself


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Edited by KapnDank (06/16/19 08:04 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26056560 -

You can use unmodified tubs or shoeboxes with even less effort: once dialed in for field capacity and FAE, literally set and forget


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26056582 -

Sounds awesome. I feel like I learned a lot from these cakes, and if I can roll them into a shoebox monotub to conclude them I'll give it a shot. Would definitely like some additional yields since the 3.5g dried so far isn't much.

Looks like 4 cakes = 2 pints, which is exactly what Shaperdreaming's Shoebox TEK calls for for one 6qt. Shoebox.

I can leave my best performing 2 cakes in the SGFC, and go from there. Should be able to start it next week.

I made some agar plates yesterday using MS Syringes and Spore Prints. Had condensation issues, but hopefully the mycelium grow alright under the plate lids. Then I can try some oat grains out :smile:

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26056590 -

Yeah man... I'm not sure how Brf got placed at the beginners level: perhaps the ease of setup/not having to have a pressure cooker... bulk is MUCH easier IMO/E...
:goodluck:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26056599 -

Also, you can use anywhere from 1.5-4 pints, at 1:1 for 1.5-2qts (3-4 pints) and 1:2 for 1.5-2.5 pints (0.75-1.25qts) and different varieties  (and even different cultures of the same variety) can perform better at different ratios, and slightly different conditions...  It's all an experiment to see what works best for you, for your culture


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! *DELETED* [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26056624 -

Post deleted by MushroomGrub

Reason for deletion: answer to question found via search feature

Edited by MushroomGrub (06/17/19 05:18 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26057970 -

Updating for the sake of any felow noobs...

My perlite was really dry. Decided to take the cakes out (hardly any pins atm, just finished 2 dunks) and re-wet the perlite in the shower as Bodhistta does. Found that thread cuz I was considering bleaching the perlite, but he recommends against it.

Excited to move onto some shoeboxes once I have everything in-hand.

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26059778 -

First, congrat! Also, I was just catching up and was like "These are both too dry and over-misted" so the dry perlite makes sense to me.

I can't wait to see your next set of grows. I hope you got prints too? I didn't see that mentioned :wink:
KapnDank said:
I agree with caps. When I finally switched to grains I was actually pretty upset with myself for not doing it earlier (this is after years of making cakes). so much wasted effort and time into minimal results.


I switched to grains pretty quickly. It took me a while to get to the point where I was succeeding at cakes though, so overall probably like 4 months before switching to grains.

But! The thing that I kicked myself in the ass for not doing sooner was AGAR. Jesus did that fix like 75% of my problems.
Caps McGee said:
Yeah man... I'm not sure how Brf got placed at the beginners level: perhaps the ease of setup/not having to have a pressure cooker...


Seriously, it's the pressure canner. It's way too intimidating of a purchase to get started. Also, grains do have a significantly higher contam rate for noobs.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26060408 -

ShaperDreaming said:
First, congrat! Also, I was just catching up and was like "These are both too dry and over-misted" so the dry perlite makes sense to me.

I can't wait to see your next set of grows. I hope you got prints too? I didn't see that mentioned :wink:
KapnDank said:
I agree with caps. When I finally switched to grains I was actually pretty upset with myself for not doing it earlier (this is after years of making cakes). so much wasted effort and time into minimal results.


I switched to grains pretty quickly. It took me a while to get to the point where I was succeeding at cakes though, so overall probably like 4 months before switching to grains.

But! The thing that I kicked myself in the ass for not doing sooner was AGAR. Jesus did that fix like 75% of my problems.
Caps McGee said:
Yeah man... I'm not sure how Brf got placed at the beginners level: perhaps the ease of setup/not having to have a pressure cooker...


Seriously, it's the pressure canner. It's way too intimidating of a purchase to get started. Also, grains do have a significantly higher contam rate for noobs.


Hey Shaper! Saw you were working on some detailed oat prep TEKs!

On my end, I managed to get a print from that dehydrated mushie we were talking about before. I also grabbed another 6 prints from a recent harvest, but I'm afraid that the mushrooms were not healthy enough. The caps looked like they may be bacterial (the over-misted ones I'm afraid to eat). Either way, I got some good dark prints off them.

I've got some 2-day old Agar plates going:
  • 10 from Syringe A (very bacterial already)
  • 10 from Syringe B (no signs)
  • 6 from dehydrated mushroom spores (no signs)


Moving forward, I've got all the supplies needed to start my shoeboxes set up... just waiting on my agar to germinate so I have something to inoculate my oats with. Could I potentially inoculate some BRF w/ MS syringes, and then use those cakes straight from the jar to inoculate grain jars? A bit roundabout, but I'm low on good genetic mats! :laugh:

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26060432 -

It's day 2? likely any growth would NOT be cubensis... a little bacteria won't kill you, MAKE TEA!
:thumbsup:

Mushrooms not healthy enough for prints, but gave dark prints?
:justno:
Prints are inherently filthy, as the fruit they come from are grown in open air... I suggest taking an initial print for 1 hour and discarding it, as most contaminants will fall within this period... (for most varieties) 3 additional 8 hour prints can be taken from each cap before dehydrating like normal


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee] * 1
    #26060463 -

Caps McGee said:
It's day 2? likely any growth would NOT be cubensis...
:thumbsup:



Agreed. I figure the plates showing growth will likely be bust. Still cautiously optimistic on the remaining 16 jars.

Caps McGee said:
a little bacteria won't kill you, MAKE TEA!



See now this is what I was hoping to hear, but without asking to hear it :smile: I dehydrated the mushies and put them in a separate bag for potential "tea making"! Sounds like I may go down that alley after all ^^

Caps McGee said:
Mushrooms not healthy enough for prints, but gave dark prints?
:justno:
Prints are inherently filthy, as the fruit they come from are grown in open air... I suggest taking an initial print for 1 hour and discarding it, as most contaminants will fall within this period... (for most varieties) 3 additional 8 hour prints can be taken from each cap before dehydrating like normal


Perfect! Although I didn't do EXACTLY this... I took three sporulating mushroom caps to print. The first set for ~8 hours, and the second set for ~24 hours.

SEEMS LIKE WE'RE ON TRACK FAM!  :nyan:

Now if I can just get some clean mycelium to seed my grains with...


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26060501 -

Get into agar... easy peasy... If your dehydrator is heated,  and you don't have a particularly timid stomach, you might be fine... bacteria don't do well in hot, "cracker dry " conditions for very long


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26061319 -

Yeah, what caps said about the prints is solid info. With those prints you could grow for years and years if you wanted. (though you'll likely want to trade with others to do some work with different things because variety is the spice of life!)

MushroomGrub said:
Now if I can just get some clean mycelium to seed my grains with...


You'll get there with all of that work you've put on agar. You'll get some good experience, and I'm sure the fruits you have now will last you until you get to the next phase. Also, grains colonize a bit quicker than brf, so you'll make up a little time after you do have that clean myc to work with, and you'll produce way more fruits per volume of spawn.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26061839 -

I see a lot of experienced growers advising going for grains here. After doing some reading on the forum my plan was to start my journey with a few grows using BRF cakes to get used to working cleanly and getting a sense of how things should look like.

To the most experienced growers: how much of the stuff I'll learn doing cakes will be useful for future growth using more advanced methods?

I really want to learn how to do things properly and I am not really in a hurry :tongue:

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: grodzilluz]
    #26062393 -

I'm not an experienced grower, but going through BRF cakes now. I love that I have 5 separate cakes that each teach me unique things.

One cake taught me about over-watering developed shrooms:



Another is teaching me the basics of side-pinning, b/c it's growing shrooms under the cake where the micro-climate is better:



Since I was looking for a good yield, I do wish I had a shoebox also going, but who's gonna complain about finding success? It's been awesome having 5 different cakes each showing 5 different behaviors from day-to-day. So far, two cakes have each yielded ~4 grams dry. And I've got a few other lookers.



Also, UPDATE!

I am seeing growth on my Agar from the dehydrated spores Shaper urged me to take :rockon: Photos below. Should I expect to be able to transfer these to new dishes tomorrow? Do I need to wait since I need several (5-10) dishes?

Woot!


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26063495 -

grodzilluz said:
To the most experienced growers: how much of the stuff I'll learn doing cakes will be useful for future growth using more advanced methods?

I really want to learn how to do things properly and I am not really in a hurry :tongue:


You'll totally learn shit. I'm going to be teaching some friends how to grow mushrooms soon, and I'll be teaching them using BRF cakes. I always start that way because you can do it w/o a pressure canner. Buying a large piece of equipment that costs at least $70 isn't always what beginners want to do when you still have to wait a couple of months for results.

Most of us started with BRF cakes because of this. I had a fuck of a time using a SGFC and hated it, so I shredded to bulk with most of my early cakes. If you do BRF cakes and shred to bulk you're going to learn most of the procedures you'll need in the future, and you'll also practice good sterile technique (while it's most forgiving) and you'll practice patience.

What you'll likely need to learn after moving from brf cakes is:

  • Sterilizing grains
  • AGAR

The BRF cake is a grain mixed with the substrate already. It's much harder for contamination to get hold in brf cakes than grain, so you can get away with a lot more errors and still produce mushrooms. The act of inoculating the cake directly with the syringe will eventually be replaced by inoculating agar. So you're mostly adding on to what you learn with cakes, and I now find myself going back to what I learned early on using cakes to try to grow non-cubes. There's always good take-away.

Now if you asked me about using a Kit I'd say you won't really learn anywhere near as much and you'll still have to learn about 96% of the process when you're done. With cakes it's less than half the process you'll need to add to your knowledge that you get to go grains and bulk.

MushroomGrub said:
I am seeing growth on my Agar from the dehydrated spores Shaper urged me to take :rockon: Photos below. Should I expect to be able to transfer these to new dishes tomorrow? Do I need to wait since I need several (5-10) dishes?

Woot!


You'll want to wait until they're about the size of a nickle to transfer them at least. Aim for a grain of rice or smaller sized transfer from the leading edge. I'm really lazy (lol) and let mine grow out to about half a plate usually before I transfer because... well, it's challenging to pour 20 plates of agar all the time? :shrug: Anyways, looking good!


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26063580 -

Quote:
ShaperDreaming said: I'm really lazy (lol) and let mine grow out to about half a plate usually before I transfer because... well, it's challenging to pour 20 plates of agar all the time? :shrug: Anyways, looking good!


:rofl: glad I'm not the only one


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26063631 -

Like I said, I only grab quick transfers on the first few, until I know the culture is clean... Then I usually end up having to pry the lid from them bc the cultures have overgrown and "glued" them on :lol:


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26063634 -

And I agree with shaper. Cakes are good to learn even if they're inefficient and require a lot of maintenance. I'm also about to bust my SGFC out for a few exotic species The cakes keep your eggs out of one basket so you won't likely lose them all while you work on sterile technique. losing that much work/material in the beginning can be very discouraging. And the maintenance of a SGFC helps you develope an eye/feel for proper fruiting conditions. Shredding cakes to shoeboxes is a good next step. Itll give you experience spawning without losing as much as you would in a monotub should it contam. After you figure out you can do it though I HIGHLY recommend getting a PC and tackling grains.  when you go to grains filter patch spawn bags will be your best friend. Maybe start off with jars for the same "eggs in one basket" reason but, after you get your moisture content down on your grains, look into getting some spawn bags. They even make clamps for them so you can reuse them 2-3 times. In my PC I can sterilize 7 qt jars at a time. However when it's in bags I can fit roughly 4X's that per run. 6-7qts per bag and 4 bags at a time. All that glass and the empty space needed in the jars takes up a lot of precious room lol and agar is pretty awesome. Kinda fun isolating genetics and they usually kick ass if you know what your looking for


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26063790 -

KapnDank said:
I'm also about to bust my SGFC out for a few exotic species The cakes keep your eggs out of one basket so you won't likely lose them all while you work on sterile technique. losing that much work/material in the beginning can be very discouraging.


Check out my pan grow in my sig to see just how discouraging that can be... just lost a whole batch of pan. aussies :frown: It was heart breaking. I've never worked with a substrate that needed so much baby-ing.

KapnDank said:
when you go to grains filter patch spawn bags will be your best friend. Maybe start off with jars for the same "eggs in one basket" reason but, after you get your moisture content down on your grains, look into getting some spawn bags.


I'm going to just say not to jump on bags right off the bat because likely you'll be using a SAB. It's not impossible, but using bags in SABs seems like a recipe for contamination. Maybe it's just because I'm only using a 66qt one, but I have been way too afraid to use bags in it. I'll have my flowhood done soon, and I finally bought my first bags. Jars are super efficient, and the 23qt prestos will hold 10 quart jars. Hell, I don't even use quart jars because I can't G2G from one quart into another in my SAB. :shrug:  Also, same thing with eggs in a basket idea for jars vs bags.

What are these clamps you speak of? I'm curious!


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26063999 -

Bag clamps. And don't forget the tubing it snaps inside the clamp keeping the bag sealed. Tubing. You know I wasn't even thinking about that. I hadn't been using bags long when I built my flowhood and the couple g2g I did with them in my SAB actually turned out well but it was a nightmare moving around in it and it was 100 or 120qt SAB. For the most part I stuck to injecting bags with LC's at first but getting LC'S down is a little bit advanced for a new grower and can be disastrous if not done right.
Edit:the g2g I did with bags in the SAB were quart JARS dumped into bags. Had to turn the bag on it's side then stick the rim of the jar inside the bag a little to keep from spilling my spawn. After the spawn was in the top part of the bag I removed the jar and stood the bag up and clamped it then mixed the spawn and grains. It's not impossible but it is a pain. Then again after building a flowhood all SAB work in retrospect is a pain lol

Edited by KapnDank (06/20/19 04:30 PM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26064052 -

KapnDank said:
Bag clamps. And don't forget the tubing it snaps inside the clamp keeping the bag sealed. Tubing.


:breakthrough:

This is cool af. Thanks!


And yeah... I've been struggling with that SAB for a while lol. It's made me do a ton of extra work to get shit right. So fucking excited for my damn flowhood to get finished.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26064787 -

Thanks for all the tips on grain bags. I've been considering them myself. I figured a flowhood would be necessary but didn't know you could just throw bags in your PC. Damn!

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26064813 -

A flow hood doesn't sterilize? They create laminar flow of highly filtered air, essentially creating a "sterile" environment in which to work in... You still need a pressure cooker or steam sterilizer


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26065244 -

Caps McGee said:
A flow hood doesn't sterilize? They create laminar flow of highly filtered air, essentially creating a "sterile" environment in which to work in... You still need a pressure cooker or steam sterilizer


Sorry, I wasn't trying to insinuate this if you're questioning my statement. I was trying to insinuate that working with bags in a SAB make bad things more likely to happen, like the bag touching the walls/floor of the box (where the contam sits), or not having enough space to pour a jar into the bag and accidentally touching the outside of the jar to the inner walls of bags, etc. Just seems much harder to keep up good sterile technique, not that one sterilizes it vs the other.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: ShaperDreaming]
    #26065678 -

ShaperDreaming said:
And yeah... I've been struggling with that SAB for a while lol. It's made me do a ton of extra work to get shit right. So fucking excited for my damn flowhood to get finished.


You're gonna absolutely love it! I went from having to psyche myself up a bit to do my agar work to it becoming something I look forward to doing most of the time. I still get lazy though :rofl: just be sure you have a sturdy table to put it on. They're heavier than you would think. The table I got for mine has started to bow over time making pouring level plates a little more difficult. I started putting the folded plastic sleeve that comes with the plates under the low side to level them out until I can find a sturdier table or one I can reinforce.
OP I would hold off on bags for the moment. Shaper made some excellent points. I would either wait until you can get a flow hood(big investment so could be a while) or until you get your agar skills down and have some experience producing clean cultures so you can try LC'S. Trying to make an LC without a clean agar culture will pretty much always end in failure. In short you can't go spores to agar. LC's are very unforgiving. However if you can master them you can just inject the bags directly and place MP tape over the hole when done. Or even better get the bags with the injection ports built in and you don't have to worry about the bag pulling in contams through the hole while you go to tape it.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26065702 -

Also you want to wrap your bags in something before you PC otherwise the bags may melt touching the sides of the PC especially if you use a gas stove. I use foil to wrap them individually and little balls of foil shoved in between the bags and between the bags and the PC walls as spacers so steam reaches more surface area.  Wrapping them tightly in foil pouches also seems to prevent the bags from expanding as much during sterilization which can weaken (making accidentally poking holes in it easy) and even burst the bag walls. Others use a pillowcase around the batch with Mason jar bands as spacers


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: KapnDank]
    #26066507 -

I built a 20×24 for less than  $150... gotta be thrifty! Wasn't directed at you SD ... someone said they didn't realize you could just put bags on the PC,  they thought you needed a hood


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: Caps McGee]
    #26070366 -

Hope everyone had a great weekend!

Wanted to ask a quick question for tomorrow. I'm preparing to shred my BRF cakes tomorrow and put them in a shoebox as per Shaper's TEK as the 2 pints of Spawn with some coir.

Question is, do I wanna dunk the cakes before I do this? Best answer I can find is no but the OPs situation was not the same. Also, with shredding BRF cakes that are now gonna be on Flush 2, do I wanna change the amt of coco coir at all?

Got photos of my Agar to share tomorrow, and my oat grain jars are ready and waiting!! :mushroom2:


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Edited by MushroomGrub (06/24/19 12:08 AM)

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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26073480 -

Life happened so a bit of a delay, but I'd love to share my Agar Progress and get a thumbs up that things are going as well as I think. Photos below are of my best plates from each category.

Spore Print Plates: Transferred to Green Plates (see below):
- ignore the orange flecks, looks like I got some coco coir on the top of the dish.

Multispore Syringe Plates (no Transfers):


Transfers from Spore Print Plates (1 Transfer Plates):


I have about 2 dozen more dishes, but these are the best for photos (condensation's brutal). I intend to start labeling/tracking my dishes from this point. The green ones seem extremely rhizomorphic. I assume that is okay? I used the same nutrient mix as I did in previous batches (400mL Water, 9g Agar, 6g BRF).

I'm nearing the end of this thread I think, as once these are completed I will begin bulk-grow shoeboxes. Thanks for all the help and guidance in the journey thus far.


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Re: Noob Grow - BRF Cakes, Grain Bags, & Agar! [Re: MushroomGrub]
    #26078186 -

Might be a bit late to answer but I wouldn't dunk them. That's just another place for it to pick up contaminants. You should already have the moisture you need in the sub your spawning to.
Your agar plates are looking good. I see a lot of good looking growth to choose from


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