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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25893617 -

"asylum claims"

That's the issue here, they're economic migrants seeking asylum from poverty.

I'm not going to defend the status quo when it comes to border and immigration enforcement, it's been a scam for a long time by our politicians.

They know where the illegals are working and they also know all of illegal social security numbers they're using. The system has to fool the people into believing there's a genuine effort to enforce the existing immigration laws, but that's obviously not the case.  The Elite aren't going to piss away their efforts to dilute wages by allowing tens of millions of illegals into the labor market.

The solution is to actually enforce the current immigration laws, not putting on a show for political reasons.

Bernie is 100% on the ill effects of allowing poor non-US citizens in the nation.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: qman] * 2
    #25893637 -

qman said:
"asylum claims"

That's the issue here, they're economic migrants seeking asylum from poverty.



No they aren’t. But even if they were, a good way to deny their asylum claims would be to follow US federal law (and the Geneva conventions) and process them, which we aren’t currently doing.

qman said:
I'm not going to defend the status quo when it comes to border and immigration enforcement, it's been a scam for a long time by our politicians.

They know where the illegals are working and they also know all of illegal social security numbers they're using. The system has to fool the people into believing there's a genuine effort to enforce the existing immigration laws, but that's obviously not the case.  The Elite aren't going to piss away their efforts to dilute wages by allowing tens of millions of illegals into the labor market.

The solution is to actually enforce the current immigration laws, not putting on a show for political reasons.


Yes, the record number of deportations, detention facilities, militarization, ending DACA, creation of ICE, and record budgets for the border enforcement apparatus just means the elite are only pretending to be tough on immigrants. How convenient for your position. It means you don’t even have to attempt to explain the inherent contradiction that exists between spending record amounts of money to enforce the border (on the basis that it saves us money).

Could it be, now brace yourself, could it be that our current enforcement strategy is simply a bad solution? Now, granted, you claim to not defend the status quo on immigration (which by the way is EXACTLY what Bernie is offering), so what is the proper solution to this apparent crisis?


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25893643 -

The Ecstatic said:
Could it be, now brace yourself, could it be that our current enforcement strategy is simply a bad solution? Now, granted, you claim to not defend the status quo on immigration (which by the way is EXACTLY what Bernie is offering), so what is the proper solution to this apparent crisis?


To build a wall.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #25893652 -

He can correct me if I’m wrong but I think qman is against the idea of a wall.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25893671 -

What does immigration have to do with sovereignty at all? Security, maybe,  but sovereignty?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25893780 -

I think the idea is that allowing immigration relinquishes control of the nation to outsiders?

Or maybe it’s alluding to international law regarding refugees or asylum seekers.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Brian Jones]
    #25893806 -

Brian Jones said:
I wish I could share your opinion of the internet. Despite the wide range of coverage I personally find the internet to be more of a problem for an educated electorate than the MSM. Breitbart and infowars vs Fox. My disgust level can handle monied interests better than holocaust deniers etc. And even more than MSNBC vs Fox, I think the internet just lets people source the segment they already believe in.


There are plenty of internet sites that provide FAR better coverage than the mainstream media, and educated people know which sites they can trust and which are bologna.  Here's a small number of the good ones:

theintercept.com
thegrayzone.com
globalresearch.ca
mintpressnews.com
jimmydorecomedy.com (Jimmy was just proven right in questioning the Russiagate narrative)
rt.com (to date, no one on the shroomery has been able to show them to be wrong about anything - though I'm not claiming they never made a mistake)


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25893807 -

I guess I get the latter, as long as we ignore the fact that the only international laws that apply to the U.S. are the ones that the U.S. agrees to.  That's pretty much the definition of sovereignty.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25893815 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Brian Jones said:
I wish I could share your opinion of the internet. Despite the wide range of coverage I personally find the internet to be more of a problem for an educated electorate than the MSM. Breitbart and infowars vs Fox. My disgust level can handle monied interests better than holocaust deniers etc. And even more than MSNBC vs Fox, I think the internet just lets people source the segment they already believe in.


There are plenty of internet sites that provide FAR better coverage than the mainstream media, and educated people know which sites they can trust and which are bologna.  Here's a small number of the good ones:

theintercept.com
thegrayzone.com
globalresearch.ca
mintpressnews.com
jimmydorecomedy.com (Jimmy was just proven right in questioning the Russiagate narrative)
rt.com (to date, no one on the shroomery has been able to show them to be wrong about anything - though I'm not claiming they never made a mistake)


Are you trolling? Globalresearch.ca is a full-on conspiracy nutter site.  9/11 nonsense, anti-vax, chemtrails, HAARP, fluoridation, etc.

Quote:
Jimmy Dore said:

Building 7. Now who you gonna believe? The government that lied us into a war or your lying eyes? Building 7 was demolished by somebody. It didn't fall down because of a fire. But if I say that, that makes me a "conspiracy theorist." I think the term conspiracy theorist has an undue amount of negativity attached to it.


RT isn't much better:



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25893830 -

If you’re looking for reliable news, try what I did:

Make a twitter account.
Follow as many reputable journalists as you find. On most decent outlets, there are good journalists and writers. For example, I like Liz Bruenig at WaPo, she’s a credible voice on the left. So i can go straight to her without having to scroll through the warmongering and corporate apologia at washingtonpost.com

As far as outlets themselves: The Intercept, Current Affairs, Jacobin, Paste, Counterpunch, Splinter News, The Baffler, a bunch of others I’m forgetting.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25893908 -

Enlil said:
Quote:
Jimmy Dore said:

Building 7. Now who you gonna believe? The government that lied us into a war or your lying eyes? Building 7 was demolished by somebody. It didn't fall down because of a fire. But if I say that, that makes me a "conspiracy theorist." I think the term conspiracy theorist has an undue amount of negativity attached to it.


RT isn't much better:




First of all, questioning the official narrative necessarily a bad thing.  I questioned WMDs in Iraq and Russian collusion, and I was right to question those.

Plus, your two examples are both very old ones that we've already discussed here and here.

If a 10 year old video questioning 9-11 is the only thing you could ever find on rt.com that you disagree with (so far, that's all you've been able to come up with even though I've shown they make fun of 9-11 conspiracy theories), then they're doing FAR better than the mainstream American media.

Let's play a game.  Tell me a news source that you trust more than rt.com, and I'll find a fake news story from them.  Then you do the same for rt.com.  We go back and forth until someone can't find a fake news story, and loses.  Ready?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25893933 -

Lol, why?  How many fake news stories does it take for you NOT to trust a source?

Besides, with globalresearch.ca, this game could take years.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25893973 -

Enlil said:
Lol, why?  How many fake news stories does it take for you NOT to trust a source?


It only takes a few and I'll stop trusting the source.

Enlil said:
Besides, with globalresearch.ca, this game could take years.


I said rt.com.  And I'm waiting for your favorite source.

It seems that questioning 9-11 10 years ago is all you have against rt.com (even though they now make fun of poeple who question it), but prove me wrong.  I'm sure rt.com has made at least a few mistakes.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25894020 -

I have found no source I trust, but this still could be fun.  I'll pick Last Week Tonight as my source. Have at it.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #25894114 -

LWT’s story on Venezuela a few months (a year?) back was chock full of blatant lies, for example that the US played no role in the current situation in Venezuela, despite crippling sanctions and the outright funding of right wing opposition groups.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25894145 -

The Ecstatic said:
LWT’s story on Venezuela a few months (a year?) back was chock full of blatant lies, for example that the US played no role in the current situation in Venezuela, despite crippling sanctions and the outright funding of right wing opposition groups.


When did he say that the U.S. played no role in the current situation?  I just had to watch that segment, and I couldn't find that part.  Can you link it or give me a quote from it?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25894193 -



Around 13:30 mark

“What’s happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault.” Right after failing to mention the attempted coup in 2002 against Chavez.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25894235 -

Thank you.  I'm not convinced the U.S. had anything to do with the 2002 coup, but that's another issue.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25894255 -

It’s 46 minutes long and the guy’s voice is annoying but I found this video to be a decent rebuttal to the picture LWT tonight paints of the situation in Venezuela:




Also keep in mind this is before the “we’re gonna back the dude who unilaterally declared himself president and promised to open oil fields to private companies” thing unfolded.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25894263 -

I watched that video a long time ago.  I just didn't remember him saying the U.S. had no role in it.  In any case, I have to wait until Falcon identifies the fake story he wants to claim.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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