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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: qman] * 3
    #25896858 -

The exclusion of white men? Is being a victim your day job or just a hobby?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25896869 -

Enlil said:
The Ecstatic said:
Enlil said:
The Ecstatic said:
I'll pick Last Week Tonight as my source. Have at it.



LWT’s story on Venezuela a few months (a year?) back was chock full of blatant lies, for example that the US played no role in the current situation in Venezuela, despite crippling sanctions and the outright funding of right wing opposition groups.



When did he say that the U.S. played no role in the current situation?  I just had to watch that segment, and I couldn't find that part.  Can you link it or give me a quote from it?





Around 13:30 mark

“What’s happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault.” Right after failing to mention the attempted coup in 2002 against Chavez.



On my computer he said it at 14:15 - "Refreshingly, what's happening in Venezuela is actually not our fault.  Accusing America of creating Venezuala's crisis is about as fair as fair as accusing OJ Simpson of murdering Princess Diana."

There's one hell of a lie right there.

The Ecstatic said:
It’s 46 minutes long and the guy’s voice is annoying but I found this video to be a decent rebuttal to the picture LWT tonight paints of the situation in Venezuela:




Also keep in mind this is before the “we’re gonna back the dude who unilaterally declared himself president and promised to open oil fields to private companies” thing unfolded.



Holy cow, that was a great video.  :thumbup:  After watching that I've lost ALL my remaining respect for John Oliver because he is clearly one hell of a bullshit artist.  Enlil picked the wrong show - that video alone should win me this contest.

But prove us wrong.  Tell us about an rt.com lie.  Anyone here can play.  :smirk:  :popcorn:


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25896872 -

Is that the "fake news story" you're choosing?


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25896883 -

What’s happening in Venezuela is not our fault. It’s the fault of a totally corrupt and incompetent Venezuelan regime that has bled the county dry.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25896889 -

koods said:
The establismeeeeeent :lol:

The rallying cry of the hippy



Actually, it's the source of news that makes you look about 10 times more stupid than you really are.  How many more fake stories are you going to allow yourself to get called out on before you finally get it?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25896890 -

In b4 fal says something about the establishment


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25896891 -

Oh too late


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25896893 -

Enlil said:
Is that the "fake news story" you're choosing?



It's the first one, yes.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25896903 -

So, in order to qualify as a "fake news story," it need only have some false information and/or omissions of relevant facts?  I just want to make sure we have consistent rules in this thing.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25896906 -

Quote:
Tell us about an rt.com lie.  Anyone here can play.  :smirk:  :popcorn:



How about that time they lied about Russia using cluster bombs in Syria , exposed their own lie by airing video footage of Russia using cluster bombs and then tried to edit the footage and lied about that.


https://www.middleeastobserver.org/2016/06/21/russian-lies-exposed-in-their-own-reports-syrian-crisis/


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25896910 -



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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25896913 -

I’m sure russian state media will have totally unbiased reporting on Venezuela. It’s not like they are sending troops there or anything.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25896917 -

Five days after Fukushima they were celebrating the completely untrue fact that Chernobyl was no longer the worst nuclear accident.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25896932 -

There’s also this craziness .

Quote:
Before she became a national correspondent for Sinclair Broadcast Group, Kristine Frazao worked for the Kremlin-backed network RT (formerly Russia Today), where she interviewed conspiracy theorist Alex Jones on more than 20 occasions. During those friendly interviews, Frazao allowed Jones to push conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attacks, 2011 Norway shooting, and 2005 London bombings, among other events.



https://www.salon.com/2018/04/05/a-sinclair-national-correspondent-frequently-interviewed-alex-jones-for-russian-funded-tv_partner/


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25897042 -

Enlil said:
So, in order to qualify as a "fake news story," it need only have some false information and/or omissions of relevant facts?  I just want to make sure we have consistent rules in this thing.



This could go on forever if it included omission of relevant facts.  I recommend we go with false information.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Psilynut2]
    #25897060 -

Psilynut2 said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Tell us about an rt.com lie.  Anyone here can play.  :smirk:  :popcorn:



How about that time they lied about Russia using cluster bombs in Syria , exposed their own lie by airing video footage of Russia using cluster bombs and then tried to edit the footage and lied about that.


https://www.middleeastobserver.org/2016/06/21/russian-lies-exposed-in-their-own-reports-syrian-crisis/



Neither Russia nor the United States opposes the use of cluster bombs.  Can you provide the article in question that you claim is lying?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25897089 -

Enlil said:
I'll go with this story:

https://www.rt.com/news/426953-opcw-chlorine-saraqeb-attack/

Debunked here:

https://www.polygraph.info/a/rt-calls-white-helmets-jihadists/29233019.html



Ok, let's go with that.  Your second link states the following:
Quote:
A former British ambassador to Syria told RT the OPCW ‘s claim that chlorine was "likely used" in Saraqeb, Syria, in February is "seriously misleading" because it is based on evidence provided by “jihadists.”



Peter Ford, the former British ambassador actually DID say that - he said it in your first link.  So it is true.  And rt.com very clearly attributed that statement to him.

Nonetheless, I've always argued that news media have an obligation to verify their news before they print it, but this was an interview done with a high ranking Westerner; it's not a printed news story.

Nonetheless again, the only 'debunking' done by your article was a claim that the white helmets are not, in fact, jihadists.  That's debatable, but it turns out irrelevant.  RT itself pointed out that the 'jihadists' were "Belgium-based Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the notorious Syrian Civil Defence (SCD) – better known as White Helmets – and the US-based Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS)."

So they were completely transparent about who it was - and the reader can decide for themselves whether they trust the white helmets or not.


Try again?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25897406 -

I'm sorry, Falcon.  You don't get to decide what is and isn't true or misleading.  If I decided, you would not have been allowed to use that LWT episode, because I believe the episode to be accurate.

RT printed this without any attribution to a source:

Quote:
In fact, the entire OPCW account is based on witness testimonies and material evidence provided by selected NGOs as well as medical records offered by the same questionable sources, including Belgium-based Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the notorious Syrian Civil Defense (SCD) – better known as White Helmets – and the US-based Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS).



If you aren't willing to play using the same standards on both sides, I'm not interested.  If you want the bar to be any statement that the other thinks is false, that's fine.  That's the bar that you hit with LWT so far.  If you want the standard to be a verifiably false statement, then you didn't meet that standard with the Venezuela piece. 



--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: koods]
    #25897511 -

koods said:
I’m sure russian state media will have totally unbiased reporting on Venezuela. It’s not like they are sending troops there or anything.



And US media will absolutely not mislead the public into supporting another regime change war for resources. Mossadegh Allende Arbenz Saddam Gadhafi Maduro is a brutal dictator who hates his own people.


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Re: Sanders 2020 [Re: Enlil]
    #25897718 -

Enlil said:
I'm sorry, Falcon.  You don't get to decide what is and isn't true or misleading.  If I decided, you would not have been allowed to use that LWT episode, because I believe the episode to be accurate.



Of course I don't get to decide.  Rt wrote that "A former British ambassador to Syria told RT the OPCW ‘s claim that chlorine was "likely used" in Saraqeb, Syria, in February is "seriously misleading" because it is based on evidence provided by 'jihadists'.”  Your own video showed him saying that.  Are you claiming the video is fake?

Enlil said:
RT printed this without any attribution to a source:
Quote:
In fact, the entire OPCW account is based on witness testimonies and material evidence provided by selected NGOs as well as medical records offered by the same questionable sources, including Belgium-based Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the notorious Syrian Civil Defense (SCD) – better known as White Helmets – and the US-based Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS).





What are you talking about Enlil?  It says it right in the OPCW report:
Quote:
Through liaison with representatives of several NGOs, including Same Justice/Chemical Violations Documentation Center of Syria (CVDCS), the Syrian Civil Defence - also known as White Helmets - (SCD) and the Syrian American Medical Society (SAMS), the FFM contacted witnesses and confirmed their willingness to provide testimony and potential evidence.



Again, rt is proven correct (unless you're saying you don't believe the OPCW report, but that's not on rt)

Enlil said:
If you aren't willing to play using the same standards on both sides, I'm not interested.  If you want the bar to be any statement that the other thinks is false, that's fine.  That's the bar that you hit with LWT so far.



Can you please be clearer about what rt lied about?  So far everything they said has proven correct by video evidence and the OPCW report.

Enlil said:
If you want the standard to be a verifiably false statement, then you didn't meet that standard with the Venezuela piece.



Did you miss the entire thread about US involvement in Venezuela?

You previously asked "When did he (John Oliver) say that the U.S. played no role in the current situation?" as if you knew that would have been an extremely stupid thing to say.  When The Ecstatic provided evidence that yes, he actually did say something that stupid, you now decided that you believe him???  :wtf:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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