*Edited - one typo - "emboldened" and capitalized one word - parenthetical mistake.*
*Edit # 2 - one typo - redundant phrasing modified.*
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"Overthinking without having knowledge and experience seems to end poorly in mycology, since people tend to overthink based on their own stereotypes and what they believe the conventional wisdom is. But most of the laymans knowledge about growing mushrooms is rooted in misconceptions. For instance, you're talking about this big, elaborate set up for providing filtered air to your tubs, but spawning to bulk isn't a sterile process. Contaminants in the tub phase are based on dirty spawn and improperly pasteurized/sterilized substrate. Filtered air not only does little to nothing to prevent it, but would be totally unproven in regard to surface conditions and gas exchange, which are the main factors in determining yield. You'd be wandering into the unknown in the hopes that you'll have successfully reinvented the wheel at the end of the process. The end result of such projects is often a very expensive experiment that ends up being outperformed by the guy who skimmed a tek and just spawned to bulk in a half assed 6 hole mono and ignored it until it fruited. The established teks in these forums are the culmination of decades of experience and trial and error. If you just look at them like bah, that's unprofessional noob shit, you're likely to end up with more headaches than breakthroughs."
Who said I didn't have appropriate/accurate knowledge and/or experience? Because I choose to filter air that doesn't need to be filtered? Because I just started posting? You assume much.
I understand what you are saying.
I overkill on purpose.
I do these things so I don't get bored.
That air setup is actually not complicated. It just sounds that way.
And as far as the air being unnecessary to filter, you're right. But I'm not trying to poor-boy my lab either though. There are a lot of little details I could add right here but I will save it for the day that I post the complete "TDog's Dialed In (Unnecessary) Air Squid TEK".
"Expensive" is a relative term.
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These are things to keep me thinking and interested. Otherwise I get bored and stop caring. It becomes a job instead of a hobby, and a bunch of day-in and day-out chores. For me anyway.
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I'm not the type to compare d***s either. That is to say I'm not going to try and convince anyone of what I know or my level of competence. I'm not about to get in to the girl-fight slapping party that is rampant on these forums in regards to who knows more than who, etc. (That shuts down a productive exchange of thought.) The only reason I even say any of that, or replied to what you just posted with my statements sounding like they are "in my defense" is so we can get on the same footing here. (More or less me introducing myself better.)
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In regards to the size and number of tubs it was simply to give an idea of the surface footprint and a reference to the potential of bulk slurry to bulk substrate if I were to cut my times down.
I like to stick with the Sterilite brand (I'm just like that), and I don't like/trust all the latch-top-models. That only leaves the "Basic Clears" and I am limited to dimensions based on the production set available as well as the space restrictions I have to work with/around.
I'm right there with you when you say that the size of the tub isn't what's important (<<<<< that's what she said?).
If I could make my own as well as they make theirs then I would. (Maybe one day... *wheels slowly begin spinning as my grey matter brings up decades-old memories of vacuum molding plastics and price lists for acrylic sheets*)
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I have been out of this for a while but I know the tried and true stuff. I used to do it. (Like how most of the posts I see [on other forums especially] are all kinds of twisted up now where people are boiling Unicorn Bags full of substrate to pasteurize it - inside their home - in a giant pot that barely fits on their stove - that has a curved bottom denoting that it should be used outdoors on a propane burner - when there is a perfectly good electric oven being neglected just below the burner they are working on. That's why I was so excited when I saw some of the OG posters resurrect things like what eatyualive put up in regards to the old ways. If I was sitting here arguing about substrate depth producing more yields then yes... call me out. I never said filtered air was necessary though. I just like keeping things clean for the sake of keeping them clean is all. That "Air Squid" is for gas exchange and the setup itself is to keep things nice and neat as well as to avoid running a wet-vac across the tent floor every day or exhausting fog out the window and into the street every time I do an air exchange [no open trays and ultrasonic humidifiers]. [Also so I don't breathe all that CO2 in constantly.] There are of course so many little details in regards to so many other details involved in the reasons I have to run things like I do that mentioning them all would be tedious and boring not only to write but to read as well.)
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This is also why I don't usually post.
(Admittedly though I got excited and opened my big fat mouth about all my little Willy-Wonka-Esque projects... it's hard for me to play things close to the vest these days [for a few reasons].)
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"...unless you're talking about slurry by the gallon, I don't think there's a way to avoid making spawn."
I AM talking about gallons of slurry. That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.
I want to trade those 60 x 1 quart mason jars (and my old way of using rye berries and syringes with standard methods and times) in for 100+ x 1 quart "Lord of the Jugs" end-all-be-all vessels that can do it all (or maybe 100+ half gallon [2000ml] bottles/jugs/jars :o *mad-scientist-laugh*).
I'm talking about making a new vessel that (while perhaps expensive, and at this point in the cohesive understating it IS unnecessary) can do everything... and well at that (while only having to open it once to put in the preliminary unsterilized media before autoclaving with respect to the majority of the tasks said vessel will be responsible for performing). Multiplied and replicated. (While disregarding the costs [to a point... I'm not about to go buy a $5k autoclave or anything... again, "expensive" is a relative term].)
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I'm just trying to stay interested.
(INTJ-A personality type also means I can't really help it. I'm going to think about all this stuff whether I want to or not... so I usually have to act on it or I will just think about it forever.)
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"If you just look at them like bah, that's unprofessional noob shit, you're likely to end up with more headaches than breakthroughs."
I would NEVER look at these TEK's in that regard.
It makes me wonder how you would get that impression from me.
If I sounded that way I assure you it was not my intent. Not in the slightest.
That is also why I posted to this (old) thread. It's out of respect to these things that I asked my question in THIS "temple". I hold these methods (and especially eatyualive, tvcasualty, and The Tribe) in VERY high regard.
(I would like to add that I stayed up many a night [well over a decade ago] reading through agar's posts. MANY a night.)
I have nothing but respect for the proven TEK's.
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I do understand what you are saying though. I do. I promise.
Your words are not lost on me.
I also would like to say that I appreciate your input.
You are the only one responding so there's that, too. Lol.
I'm not attempting to undermine your statements. What you have said is valid (minus the assumptions... but that's just kind of what everyone has to do since we don't know each other).
And I would also like to state that yes, I am new to the "slurry-in-a-hurry" method and all that entails; BUT, I am doing what you said in your opening statements involving your latest reply. (Meaning I am doing the old stuff... I'm just looking down the road as I bastardize a protein shake bottle and some replacement parts for a $10 blender is all. Lol.)
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You are also right that it may all be for naught. It may be a year of me tinkering and in the end just walking away from it.
I will also learn more along my way/journey than I would have otherwise, and perhaps that can/will be applied to future projects/branches. (Even if the knowledge gained here goes in to some other aspect/realm of something "unrelated" to any of this.)
I just like to do stuff like this too I guess.
(And if you would like to move our discussion to private messages I'm down for that as well. As I said, you're the only one responding [anyway]. There is actually something I would like to ask you that is best suited for a different thread, but I feel we are becoming better acquainted and since you are familiar with things, and responding/active, it would be foolish for me to cast my line back in to an ocean of salt at this point.)
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TIME is the most valuable, costly (priceless), precious, and important thing we have (IMHO). I promise you that you are not wasting yours in your efforts with me.
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(I also like to end with a joke if I can.)
Patches gets it.
Edited by TDog (06/28/18 12:26 PM)
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