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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Birthright citizenship
    #25608378 -

Some people say that according to the Constitution, anybody born on US soil is a citizen. However, there are people who were born in US yet who are not citizens, namely the children of ambassadors and other foreign dignitaries. This seems to tell me that being born on US soil is not all that it takes to be granted citizenship. And if we can deny citizenship to one group of people who were born in the States, then surely we can also do this to the anchor babies.

What do you think?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25608455 -

I think you haven’t read the constitution. It specifically exempts people who “are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.” Unless you believe illegal aliens are not subject to the laws of the US while inside the US, then the birthright exception doesn’t apply. The language is not ambiguous at all.

I would add, from a practical point of view, nobody ever pays attention to this exception either. I know a number of people who are US citizens born in the US while their parents were here as diplomats. Essentially, if you have a US birth certificate, the US says you are a citizen. This makes sense since any other policy would require additional proof of citizenship beyond a birth certificate.

[Mod Edit; Removed Personal Attack]


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by Enlil (11/12/18 07:49 AM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25608615 -

I hope they can stop anchor babies without changing the constitution.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25608738 -

The Constitution is clear.  It would take an amendment to remove birthright citizenship.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Enlil]
    #25608917 -

Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25608996 -

krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609326 -

krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



Yes.

It was when I was doing factory work. The factory would hire convicts in halfway houses, illegal immigrants, and Joe shmoe. The point is they hired anyone.

The Hispanics, most of them, could not speak English, which made working in the quality department a terribly difficult job.

Some of them used drugs as well.

Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through. Many lines failed to complete their assemblies due to the inability to read the English on their blueprints. The line leaders would use pictures and skip the words, which made re-work a common occurrence. Which lost the company money, customers, and so forth.



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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (11/12/18 12:01 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25609514 -

Did you honestly just complain that “some of them used drugs?”

The company was probably desperate for anyone to fill the position because half the applicants couldn’t pass a drug test.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (11/12/18 01:19 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25609563 -

XUL said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



Yes.

It was when I was doing factory work. The factory would hire convicts in halfway houses, illegal immigrants, and Joe shmoe. The point is they hired anyone.

The Hispanics, most of them, could not speak English, which made working in the quality department a terribly difficult job.

Some of them used drugs as well.

Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through. Many lines failed to complete their assemblies due to the inability to read the English on their blueprints. The line leaders would use pictures and skip the words, which made re-work a common occurrence. Which lost the company money, customers, and so forth.





This is a direct result of your former employer's hiring practices, not the fault of those convicts and immigrants. To you it may have appeared to cost the company money and customers, and it may have in the short term. But if it was a long term problem that couldn't be resolved with additional training they would have changed their ways and either paid more to hire qualified people, offshored the work, or gone out of business.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: MycoMinded] * 2
    #25609584 -

Quote:
Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through



Poor thing having to deal with people who aren’t exactly like you.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25609594 -

Brown people are scary, bro.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609597 -

krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



He probably lives someplace where "Mexican food" is burnt chicken, black beans and Spanish rice.  Poor bastard.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: MycoMinded]
    #25609702 -

MycoMinded said:
XUL said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



Yes.

It was when I was doing factory work. The factory would hire convicts in halfway houses, illegal immigrants, and Joe shmoe. The point is they hired anyone.

The Hispanics, most of them, could not speak English, which made working in the quality department a terribly difficult job.

Some of them used drugs as well.

Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through. Many lines failed to complete their assemblies due to the inability to read the English on their blueprints. The line leaders would use pictures and skip the words, which made re-work a common occurrence. Which lost the company money, customers, and so forth.





This is a direct result of your former employer's hiring practices, not the fault of those convicts and immigrants. To you it may have appeared to cost the company money and customers, and it may have in the short term. But if it was a long term problem that couldn't be resolved with additional training they would have changed their ways and either paid more to hire qualified people, offshored the work, or gone out of business.



Yes, the first contractor went bankrupt.

The second had several layoffs.

From what I understand they are operating at minimum capacity now.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25609824 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.



I asked exactly what I meant to. I want to know how people are personally affected. "The american people" are often indistinguishable from false or highly exaggerated rhetoric so instead of a base claim of for instance, "they steal our jobs," "they drive up healthcare costs" I would prefer to hear personal anecdotes or see actual data and build my own picture of "how the american people are affected."

@XUL Thank you for sharing. I am inclined to agree with others that while illegal immigrantion was involved the problem seems to stem from management/HR to me. To blame the employees in this case seems to me like blaming guns for shootings instead of the ones pulling the trigger.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609858 -

The place where trump got the most votes happen to also be the places where immigrants both illegal and legal are least concentrated. why do the people who have the least experience with the issue have such strong feelings?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609860 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.



I asked exactly what I meant to. I want to know how people are personally affected. "The american people" are often indistinguishable from false or highly exaggerated rhetoric so instead of a base claim of for instance, "they steal our jobs," "they drive up healthcare costs" I would prefer to hear personal anecdotes or see actual data and build my own picture of "how the american people are affected."

@XUL Thank you for sharing. I am inclined to agree with others that while illegal immigrantion was involved the problem seems to stem from management/HR to me. To blame the employees in this case seems to me like blaming guns for shootings instead of the ones pulling the trigger.



But people don't need to prove that they have been personally affected in order to care about an issue.  For example, some dogs are being skinned alive in China.  This does not affect me personally, however I still feel very strongly about it.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25609864 -

My experience was in PA.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609911 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?



The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.



I asked exactly what I meant to. I want to know how people are personally affected. "The american people" are often indistinguishable from false or highly exaggerated rhetoric so instead of a base claim of for instance, "they steal our jobs," "they drive up healthcare costs" I would prefer to hear personal anecdotes or see actual data and build my own picture of "how the american people are affected."




No, because if someone claims they were physically or sexually assaulted by an illegal, we know the next words out of some people mouths. 

You're not really looking for personal experiences, you're looking to minimize the impact of illegal immigration,

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25609932 -

I have ppl at my work who don’t speak English. It makes it harder, and it’s annoying. I personally wouldn’t hire anyone who can’t speak or read English. That’s just me


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Rate me here

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Citizen X]
    #25610015 -

the constitution says you have to be born in the united states AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof. this was mainly to protect the tribal soverenty of native americans. so that if they were born in the usa the laws of the usa couldnt be forced upon them. if someone is a tourist or an illegal immigrant in the usa, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country and their children shouldnt be automatically given citizenship.

the way i look at it is if someone is a legal resident then sure their children can be citizens. but i dont think citizenship should be granted to the children of tourists or peopsle who entered the country illegally. maybe you arent a citizen yet but if you have a work visa and job and are working toward citizenship then fine.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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