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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #24402754 - 06/13/17 03:35 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Yeah, that's the one.

...i have to tell you that i'm not a fan of the concept of "approved" or "unapproved" protests.



Like it or not the US has a very similar rule:

Quote:

The government can often require a permit to regulate competing uses of the area and to ensure you respect reasonable time, place and manner restrictions.




--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24402761 - 06/13/17 03:38 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

true, but i still don't care for it.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24402780 - 06/13/17 03:42 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
By your own admission, I already have a majority of the imaginary 12 juror panel based on your poll



Yes, you did get a 12 person majority (7 of 12).  Another win for American propaganda.  Just like balls' post above (I'm not criticizing balls, I'm criticizing the media for making Putin out to be the bad guy rather than the person who illegally disrupted a large public festival, when his permit was for a protest in another part of Moscow).  We don't even know if Putin was involved in the arrest; the guy was clearly breaking the law.

NOTE:  He DID have a permit to protest in Moscow, even though he is Putin's opponent.  How many American's would have believed that?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24402786 - 06/13/17 03:45 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's only because you aren't really scaling the two.  A protest costs money, too.




That may be, and it might need to be addressed somehow, but let's say we continue to allow abstract constructs to be considered "people" with speech rights.  It still seems problematic to give sitting powers the authority to decide where and when their opposition can assemble.  No?


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402799 - 06/13/17 03:52 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That's only because you aren't really scaling the two.  A protest costs money, too.



That may be, and it might need to be addressed somehow



We previously addressed it here.

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It still seems problematic to give sitting powers the authority to decide where and when their opposition can assemble.  No?



Do you really think it's ok to organize a protest in the middle of a festival?  If I were attending the festival, I'd be pissed.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24402811 - 06/13/17 03:55 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

If you don't disrupt anything, it isn't much of a protest, but yeah, i would be pissed too.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402835 - 06/13/17 04:03 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure what you mean by abstract concepts being considered people with rights.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #24402843 - 06/13/17 04:06 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not sure what you mean by abstract concepts being considered people with rights.






i'm going to go on a limb and guess by "abstract concepts" he is referring to corporations being given the same rights as people/citizens


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24402849 - 06/13/17 04:07 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

private group funding mechanisms like super-PACs, as an example.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402987 - 06/13/17 04:54 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

So, you are okay with a person having rights, but once those people form a group, they should have less rights when they act collectively?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24403015 - 06/13/17 05:02 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

in the case of campaign contributions?  I think there is compelling interest, yes.  I'm open to debate on what the least restrictive means would be.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24403110 - 06/13/17 05:37 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The problem is we arent privy to all the evidence.

If half of the prosecution's case was inadmissible for being top secret, of course they woulsnt get convicted.



Can you think of any reason why the Government wouldn't share what they know about Russia?  Could it be because they don't know anything?  Or that we suddenly care so much about our relationship with Russia that we're unwilling to share what they did with the public?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
But I think we can infer it just fine. Sure, the intelligence community has lied in the past, but who else do we have to go on (seeing as how we cant see the evidence) if not the intelligence community and the legislators with the requisite security clearances? Putin?



The only thing the intelligence community told us is that they're "highly confident" Russia "interfered" with our election.  "Highly confident" means they're not certain, and I don't think anyone other than Enlil knows what "interfered" means.




Maybe the CIA doesnt want Russia to know how we know what we know, or the extent of what we know. :shrug:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24403143 - 06/13/17 05:45 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe.

Or maybe the CIA doesn't want Russia to know that our "high confidence" is nothing more than a strong hunch.  :shrug:

Russia is denying involvement.  That doesn't prove they're not involved, but burden of proof is generally on the accuser.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24403389 - 06/13/17 07:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you are okay with a person having rights, but once those people form a group, they should have less rights when they act collectively?



there are contribution limits.

there is your "group" limits already established. just change them, make things more equitable for voters.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24403428 - 06/13/17 07:36 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Maybe.

Or maybe the CIA doesn't want Russia to know that our "high confidence" is nothing more than a strong hunch.  :shrug:

Russia is denying involvement.  That doesn't prove they're not involved, but burden of proof is generally on the accuser.







i'm sure i'll take some shit for this but:

Russia hasn't lied to me.  the USA has lied to me most/all of my life about most/all things.



off the bat, i'm inclined to believe Russia over the USA in regards to what THEY did or didn't do in relation to the USA


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: demiu5]
    #24403470 - 06/13/17 07:53 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24403492 - 06/13/17 07:57 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:






even so, Russia has little reason to "keep up appearances" with the majority of the US population, whereas the US government has every reason to "keep up appearances" with the [majority of the] US population


motive says a lot, imo


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: demiu5]
    #24403500 - 06/13/17 08:02 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:






even so, Russia has little reason to "keep up appearances" with the majority of the US population, whereas the US government has every reason to "keep up appearances" with the [majority of the] US population


motive says a lot, imo




It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.

If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24403540 - 06/13/17 08:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.



The best way to do that is to stay innocent.  :shrug:

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.



But why Trump?  As others mentioned, if they had a choice Russia should have picked Sanders.  Trump only met Putin once very briefly at a Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.  I don't think that's enough for Russia to determine Trump is "their man".


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24403597 - 06/13/17 08:39 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:






even so, Russia has little reason to "keep up appearances" with the majority of the US population, whereas the US government has every reason to "keep up appearances" with the [majority of the] US population


motive says a lot, imo




It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.

If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.






the global community is, for all intents and purposes, a political community.  the citizens have very little to do with it.  again, Russia has no real motive if the citizens of the US like/dislike Russia/Russian politics


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