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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24401787 - 06/13/17 09:01 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

The problem is we arent privy to all the evidence.

If half of the prosecution's case was inadmissible for being top secret, of course they woulsnt get convicted.

But I think we can infer it just fine. Sure, the intelligence community has lied in the past, but who else do we have to go on (seeing as how we cant see the evidence) if not the intelligence community and the legislators with the requisite security clearances? Putin?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24401794 - 06/13/17 09:04 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

That's really what it comes down to.  Sure, it's possible that they're wrong, but this isn't a murder trial.  This is about international relations and deciding who is friend/foe.  There's obviously enough to determine that it would be foolish to trust Russia.

No one here is saying we should go to war based on the available evidence.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24401826 - 06/13/17 09:13 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

hell, i don't even trust the japanese.  Abe scares me with all this nationalism and being gung-ho to rebuild their military, etc.

That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.


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InvisibleCyrus19
Represents Enlil's Hope

Registered: 02/24/17
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24401834 - 06/13/17 09:17 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
hell, i don't even trust the japanese.  Abe scares me with all this nationalism and being gung-ho to rebuild their military, etc.

That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Japan is basically our vassal :lol:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24401845 - 06/13/17 09:21 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

And i don't even trust them.  that was my point.


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InvisibleCyrus19
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Registered: 02/24/17
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24401853 - 06/13/17 09:24 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
And i don't even trust them.  that was my point.



I'm sure if the tides had turned in the war they would have treated us much worse thats for sure. Japan is the most racist country on the planet.


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24401862 - 06/13/17 09:26 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
hell, i don't even trust the japanese.  Abe scares me with all this nationalism and being gung-ho to rebuild their military, etc.

That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Japan is basically our vassal :lol:




don't be mistaken, a ton of the Japanese HATTEEEE American's.
A lot of them don't even feel guilty for WWII.

this is largely anecdotal from people I speak to that live there but
it's somewhat based in reality
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/04/07/japan-us-relations-survey/25351323/


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24401864 - 06/13/17 09:27 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

it's exactly the points that enlil and ecstatic made...this doesn't boil down to a conviction in something like an international murder trial, but...

do we want better relations with russia?  sure, to a degree, why not?  lets sell them some shit and tilt the trade deficit a degree.

do we trust russia?  about as far as trump could throw putin. (imagine that one for a second)

should we go to war, even a cold war, with russia?  fuck no, war is expensive af and what good will it do us?

it's clear our gov't has lied to us and the world many, many times.  it's clear that russia lies to her citizens and the world as well.  last year i read a poll that said something on the order of 70% of russian citizens believe that the US "wants to invade russia".  (tried to find a link but everything is about the election bullshit).  politicians lie, states lie, everyone fucking lies.  i'm just not ready to trust that russia did nothing when the whole IC says otherwise, secrete evidence or not.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24402233 - 06/13/17 11:59 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The problem is we arent privy to all the evidence.

If half of the prosecution's case was inadmissible for being top secret, of course they woulsnt get convicted.



Can you think of any reason why the Government wouldn't share what they know about Russia?  Could it be because they don't know anything?  Or that we suddenly care so much about our relationship with Russia that we're unwilling to share what they did with the public?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
But I think we can infer it just fine. Sure, the intelligence community has lied in the past, but who else do we have to go on (seeing as how we cant see the evidence) if not the intelligence community and the legislators with the requisite security clearances? Putin?



The only thing the intelligence community told us is that they're "highly confident" Russia "interfered" with our election.  "Highly confident" means they're not certain, and I don't think anyone other than Enlil knows what "interfered" means.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24402257 - 06/13/17 12:11 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

They also said that 100% of the intelligence community concurs.  When was the last time 100% of any group larger than 100 people concurred about anything?


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402281 - 06/13/17 12:19 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They also said that 100% of the intelligence community concurs.  When was the last time 100% of any group larger than 100 people concurred about anything?






Ahh but that just deepens the mystery...


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402487 - 06/13/17 01:39 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They also said that 100% of the intelligence community concurs.  When was the last time 100% of any group larger than 100 people concurred about anything?



What do they agree on?  That Russia gathered intelligence?  I agree with that too.  :shrug:

Quote:

Enlil said:
There's obviously enough to determine that it would be foolish to trust Russia.



Trust them not to gather intelligence?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24402499 - 06/13/17 01:42 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

By your own admission, I already have a majority of the imaginary 12 juror panel based on your poll, and I haven't even presented any evidence or made an argument.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402534 - 06/13/17 02:00 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Do you mean the far right wing extremist who moved an approved protest to an unapproved location right in the middle a war reenactment festival ("The Times and Epochs") with hundreds of thousands in attendance (including children) so he can pretend his following was a lot bigger than it really was?  And who was given a whole 2-4 weeks in jail for that?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402539 - 06/13/17 02:01 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
By your own admission, I already have a majority of the imaginary 12 juror panel based on your poll, and I haven't even presented any evidence or made an argument.



You have evidence?  For at least the tenth time, WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24402590 - 06/13/17 02:26 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

According to you 7 out of 11 saw enough


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24402697 - 06/13/17 03:18 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Do you mean the far right wing extremist who moved an approved protest to an unapproved location right in the middle a war reenactment festival ("The Times and Epochs") with hundreds of thousands in attendance (including children) so he can pretend his following was a lot bigger than it really was?  And who was given a whole 2-4 weeks in jail for that?




Yeah, that's the one.

Not that my opinion carries any weight either at home, or abroad, but i have to tell you that i'm not a fan of the concept of "approved" or "unapproved" protests.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402707 - 06/13/17 03:21 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:

i'm not a fan of the concept of "approved" or "unapproved" protests.



Why not?  That isn't a far cry from your plan of political speech censorship we discussed previously.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402724 - 06/13/17 03:25 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

It seems far removed to me.  One requires that we bend our minds around the idea of money as speech, the other is a straightforward free assembly issue.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402742 - 06/13/17 03:32 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

That's only because you aren't really scaling the two.  A protest costs money, too.


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