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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding * 2
    #24397236 - 06/11/17 03:54 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)



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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #24397252 - 06/11/17 04:00 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

honorable........?  or only last-minute available judge?



:strokebeard:







KANGAROO COURT! :cookiemonster:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24397254 - 06/11/17 04:00 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

:highfive:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #24397255 - 06/11/17 04:02 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Oh look a letter came in the mail...
...
...
...
....
JURY DUTY? are you kidding me?

Also, who made you judge? this is unacceptable!


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24397279 - 06/11/17 04:11 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

So far there is no evidence that trump colluded with Russia. Even if there was evidence, Nixon famously communicated with vietnam before he was elected, and that was fine. I don't see how this is any different.

That, of course, doesn't excuse Russia's interference in our election, but just because it benefited trump does not mean that he is guilty of anything or collaborating with russia in any meaningful way. In fact, his relationship with russia so far has been not so great. If you've been keeping up with this stuff, you should know that senior people in the trump administration have publicly expressed their frustration with Russia, saying (among other things) that "the problem with russia is that they lie."

Not guilty.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: demiu5]
    #24397298 - 06/11/17 04:17 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
honorable........?  or only last-minute available judge?



:strokebeard:







KANGAROO COURT! :cookiemonster:




the second, obviously


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: nooneman] * 2
    #24397299 - 06/11/17 04:17 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
So far there is no evidence that trump colluded with Russia. Even if there was evidence, Nixon famously communicated with vietnam before he was elected, and that was fine. I don't see how this is any different.

That, of course, doesn't excuse Russia's interference in our election, but just because it benefited trump does not mean that he is guilty of anything or collaborating with russia in any meaningful way. In fact, his relationship with russia so far has been not so great. If you've been keeping up with this stuff, you should know that senior people in the trump administration have publicly expressed their frustration with Russia, saying (among other things) that "the problem with russia is that they lie."

Not guilty.




Sir I believe (I may be mistaken) that this court is addressing the matter that Russia is/isn't responsible for the leaks of DNC emails and presenting them to Wikileaks, or that it was a hacker not affiliated with the Russian government that did so.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24397322 - 06/11/17 04:24 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Oh, lol, well then.


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24397324 - 06/11/17 04:25 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Obviously both Falcon and Enlil need to lay their case with evidence/lack thereof
So everyone gets a clear understanding of each sides argument.
then they can attack each other on it as they please.

If we're taking this silly thing remotely seriously we need to allow enough time for people to read and then have a clear poll to decide who wins.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24397359 - 06/11/17 04:35 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Oh look a letter came in the mail...
...
...
...
....
JURY DUTY? are you kidding me?

Also, who made you judge? this is unacceptable!





The Government of the United States of America is not responsible for costs incurred during your time in-transit, to and from, or during your stay in the best nation in the world.  Nor will we, the Government of the United States of America, spare any expense in procuring your physical presence during this trial.  Additionally, criminal charges will be brought against you AFTER bringing you here, and all costs incurred by the Government of the United States of America of your retrieval will be sought after with a 183% surcharge, because, you know, we can.


:smirk:




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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: demiu5] * 1
    #24398142 - 06/11/17 09:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Tar and feather patlal


--------------------
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Offlineviktor
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #24398195 - 06/11/17 09:37 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

If guilty, I volunteer to chop the guy's head off.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #24399806 - 06/12/17 02:59 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Tar and feather patlal




To hell with justice, can we just form an angry mob and do this instead?


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24399870 - 06/12/17 03:21 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Obviously both Falcon and Enlil need to lay their case with evidence/lack thereof
So everyone gets a clear understanding of each sides argument.
then they can attack each other on it as they please.

If we're taking this silly thing remotely seriously we need to allow enough time for people to read and then have a clear poll to decide who wins.





The first thing we need to do is select a panel of jurists.  I've not performed jury duty before, so i'm not clear on the process.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24400394 - 06/12/17 06:46 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Tar and feather patlal




To hell with justice, can we just form an angry mob and do this instead?



Yeah that went from trial to murder real fast . On the real Patlal is a good dude . He's no hostile universe for sure and even he isn't Satan


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #24400624 - 06/12/17 08:23 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Lol, what is this shit?

We need a jury pool of at least 20 to voir dire.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #24400746 - 06/12/17 09:13 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Tar and feather patlal




To hell with justice, can we just form an angry mob and do this instead?



Yeah that went from trial to murder real fast . On the real Patlal is a good dude . He's no hostile universe for sure and even he isn't Satan




Doesnt mean we shouldnt torture him on a whim.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24401026 - 06/12/17 11:41 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, what is this shit?

We need a jury pool of at least 20 to voir dire.




Never mind all this fancy talk. Just give me someone's head to chop off!


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24401117 - 06/13/17 12:55 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Lol, what is this shit?

We need a jury pool of at least 20 to voir dire.




Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Obviously both Falcon and Enlil need to lay their case with evidence/lack thereof
So everyone gets a clear understanding of each sides argument.
then they can attack each other on it as they please.

If we're taking this silly thing remotely seriously we need to allow enough time for people to read and then have a clear poll to decide who wins.





The first thing we need to do is select a panel of jurists.  I've not performed jury duty before, so i'm not clear on the process.




Tell us how to work this.  I'm sure we can come up with 20 people


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24401141 - 06/13/17 01:20 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

We got 11 of 12.  4 say there is not enough evidence.  So much for Enlil's "guarantee that I'd get a majority of 12 jurors to make the same inferences I am."  :smirk:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24401787 - 06/13/17 09:01 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

The problem is we arent privy to all the evidence.

If half of the prosecution's case was inadmissible for being top secret, of course they woulsnt get convicted.

But I think we can infer it just fine. Sure, the intelligence community has lied in the past, but who else do we have to go on (seeing as how we cant see the evidence) if not the intelligence community and the legislators with the requisite security clearances? Putin?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24401794 - 06/13/17 09:04 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

That's really what it comes down to.  Sure, it's possible that they're wrong, but this isn't a murder trial.  This is about international relations and deciding who is friend/foe.  There's obviously enough to determine that it would be foolish to trust Russia.

No one here is saying we should go to war based on the available evidence.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24401826 - 06/13/17 09:13 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

hell, i don't even trust the japanese.  Abe scares me with all this nationalism and being gung-ho to rebuild their military, etc.

That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.


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InvisibleCyrus19
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24401834 - 06/13/17 09:17 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
hell, i don't even trust the japanese.  Abe scares me with all this nationalism and being gung-ho to rebuild their military, etc.

That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Japan is basically our vassal :lol:


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24401845 - 06/13/17 09:21 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

And i don't even trust them.  that was my point.


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InvisibleCyrus19
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24401853 - 06/13/17 09:24 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
And i don't even trust them.  that was my point.



I'm sure if the tides had turned in the war they would have treated us much worse thats for sure. Japan is the most racist country on the planet.


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cyrus19]
    #24401862 - 06/13/17 09:26 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cyrus19 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
hell, i don't even trust the japanese.  Abe scares me with all this nationalism and being gung-ho to rebuild their military, etc.

That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Japan is basically our vassal :lol:




don't be mistaken, a ton of the Japanese HATTEEEE American's.
A lot of them don't even feel guilty for WWII.

this is largely anecdotal from people I speak to that live there but
it's somewhat based in reality
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/04/07/japan-us-relations-survey/25351323/


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Invisiblerelic
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24401864 - 06/13/17 09:27 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

it's exactly the points that enlil and ecstatic made...this doesn't boil down to a conviction in something like an international murder trial, but...

do we want better relations with russia?  sure, to a degree, why not?  lets sell them some shit and tilt the trade deficit a degree.

do we trust russia?  about as far as trump could throw putin. (imagine that one for a second)

should we go to war, even a cold war, with russia?  fuck no, war is expensive af and what good will it do us?

it's clear our gov't has lied to us and the world many, many times.  it's clear that russia lies to her citizens and the world as well.  last year i read a poll that said something on the order of 70% of russian citizens believe that the US "wants to invade russia".  (tried to find a link but everything is about the election bullshit).  politicians lie, states lie, everyone fucking lies.  i'm just not ready to trust that russia did nothing when the whole IC says otherwise, secrete evidence or not.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24402233 - 06/13/17 11:59 AM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The problem is we arent privy to all the evidence.

If half of the prosecution's case was inadmissible for being top secret, of course they woulsnt get convicted.



Can you think of any reason why the Government wouldn't share what they know about Russia?  Could it be because they don't know anything?  Or that we suddenly care so much about our relationship with Russia that we're unwilling to share what they did with the public?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
But I think we can infer it just fine. Sure, the intelligence community has lied in the past, but who else do we have to go on (seeing as how we cant see the evidence) if not the intelligence community and the legislators with the requisite security clearances? Putin?



The only thing the intelligence community told us is that they're "highly confident" Russia "interfered" with our election.  "Highly confident" means they're not certain, and I don't think anyone other than Enlil knows what "interfered" means.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24402257 - 06/13/17 12:11 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

They also said that 100% of the intelligence community concurs.  When was the last time 100% of any group larger than 100 people concurred about anything?


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OfflineCinnamon
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402281 - 06/13/17 12:19 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They also said that 100% of the intelligence community concurs.  When was the last time 100% of any group larger than 100 people concurred about anything?






Ahh but that just deepens the mystery...


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402487 - 06/13/17 01:39 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
They also said that 100% of the intelligence community concurs.  When was the last time 100% of any group larger than 100 people concurred about anything?



What do they agree on?  That Russia gathered intelligence?  I agree with that too.  :shrug:

Quote:

Enlil said:
There's obviously enough to determine that it would be foolish to trust Russia.



Trust them not to gather intelligence?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24402499 - 06/13/17 01:42 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

By your own admission, I already have a majority of the imaginary 12 juror panel based on your poll, and I haven't even presented any evidence or made an argument.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402534 - 06/13/17 02:00 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Do you mean the far right wing extremist who moved an approved protest to an unapproved location right in the middle a war reenactment festival ("The Times and Epochs") with hundreds of thousands in attendance (including children) so he can pretend his following was a lot bigger than it really was?  And who was given a whole 2-4 weeks in jail for that?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402539 - 06/13/17 02:01 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
By your own admission, I already have a majority of the imaginary 12 juror panel based on your poll, and I haven't even presented any evidence or made an argument.



You have evidence?  For at least the tenth time, WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE???


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24402590 - 06/13/17 02:26 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

According to you 7 out of 11 saw enough


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24402697 - 06/13/17 03:18 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

ballsalsa said:
That was nice of Putin to throw his political opposition in jail yesterday.



Do you mean the far right wing extremist who moved an approved protest to an unapproved location right in the middle a war reenactment festival ("The Times and Epochs") with hundreds of thousands in attendance (including children) so he can pretend his following was a lot bigger than it really was?  And who was given a whole 2-4 weeks in jail for that?




Yeah, that's the one.

Not that my opinion carries any weight either at home, or abroad, but i have to tell you that i'm not a fan of the concept of "approved" or "unapproved" protests.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402707 - 06/13/17 03:21 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:

i'm not a fan of the concept of "approved" or "unapproved" protests.



Why not?  That isn't a far cry from your plan of political speech censorship we discussed previously.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24402724 - 06/13/17 03:25 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

It seems far removed to me.  One requires that we bend our minds around the idea of money as speech, the other is a straightforward free assembly issue.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402742 - 06/13/17 03:32 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

That's only because you aren't really scaling the two.  A protest costs money, too.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #24402754 - 06/13/17 03:35 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Yeah, that's the one.

...i have to tell you that i'm not a fan of the concept of "approved" or "unapproved" protests.



Like it or not the US has a very similar rule:

Quote:

The government can often require a permit to regulate competing uses of the area and to ensure you respect reasonable time, place and manner restrictions.




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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24402761 - 06/13/17 03:38 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

true, but i still don't care for it.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24402780 - 06/13/17 03:42 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
By your own admission, I already have a majority of the imaginary 12 juror panel based on your poll



Yes, you did get a 12 person majority (7 of 12).  Another win for American propaganda.  Just like balls' post above (I'm not criticizing balls, I'm criticizing the media for making Putin out to be the bad guy rather than the person who illegally disrupted a large public festival, when his permit was for a protest in another part of Moscow).  We don't even know if Putin was involved in the arrest; the guy was clearly breaking the law.

NOTE:  He DID have a permit to protest in Moscow, even though he is Putin's opponent.  How many American's would have believed that?


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24402786 - 06/13/17 03:45 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
That's only because you aren't really scaling the two.  A protest costs money, too.




That may be, and it might need to be addressed somehow, but let's say we continue to allow abstract constructs to be considered "people" with speech rights.  It still seems problematic to give sitting powers the authority to decide where and when their opposition can assemble.  No?


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402799 - 06/13/17 03:52 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
That's only because you aren't really scaling the two.  A protest costs money, too.



That may be, and it might need to be addressed somehow



We previously addressed it here.

Quote:

ballsalsa said:
It still seems problematic to give sitting powers the authority to decide where and when their opposition can assemble.  No?



Do you really think it's ok to organize a protest in the middle of a festival?  If I were attending the festival, I'd be pissed.  :shrug:


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24402811 - 06/13/17 03:55 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

If you don't disrupt anything, it isn't much of a protest, but yeah, i would be pissed too.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402835 - 06/13/17 04:03 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not sure what you mean by abstract concepts being considered people with rights.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #24402843 - 06/13/17 04:06 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not sure what you mean by abstract concepts being considered people with rights.






i'm going to go on a limb and guess by "abstract concepts" he is referring to corporations being given the same rights as people/citizens


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24402849 - 06/13/17 04:07 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

private group funding mechanisms like super-PACs, as an example.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24402987 - 06/13/17 04:54 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

So, you are okay with a person having rights, but once those people form a group, they should have less rights when they act collectively?


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil]
    #24403015 - 06/13/17 05:02 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

in the case of campaign contributions?  I think there is compelling interest, yes.  I'm open to debate on what the least restrictive means would be.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24403110 - 06/13/17 05:37 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
The problem is we arent privy to all the evidence.

If half of the prosecution's case was inadmissible for being top secret, of course they woulsnt get convicted.



Can you think of any reason why the Government wouldn't share what they know about Russia?  Could it be because they don't know anything?  Or that we suddenly care so much about our relationship with Russia that we're unwilling to share what they did with the public?

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
But I think we can infer it just fine. Sure, the intelligence community has lied in the past, but who else do we have to go on (seeing as how we cant see the evidence) if not the intelligence community and the legislators with the requisite security clearances? Putin?



The only thing the intelligence community told us is that they're "highly confident" Russia "interfered" with our election.  "Highly confident" means they're not certain, and I don't think anyone other than Enlil knows what "interfered" means.




Maybe the CIA doesnt want Russia to know how we know what we know, or the extent of what we know. :shrug:


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24403143 - 06/13/17 05:45 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe.

Or maybe the CIA doesn't want Russia to know that our "high confidence" is nothing more than a strong hunch.  :shrug:

Russia is denying involvement.  That doesn't prove they're not involved, but burden of proof is generally on the accuser.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #24403389 - 06/13/17 07:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
So, you are okay with a person having rights, but once those people form a group, they should have less rights when they act collectively?



there are contribution limits.

there is your "group" limits already established. just change them, make things more equitable for voters.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24403428 - 06/13/17 07:36 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Maybe.

Or maybe the CIA doesn't want Russia to know that our "high confidence" is nothing more than a strong hunch.  :shrug:

Russia is denying involvement.  That doesn't prove they're not involved, but burden of proof is generally on the accuser.







i'm sure i'll take some shit for this but:

Russia hasn't lied to me.  the USA has lied to me most/all of my life about most/all things.



off the bat, i'm inclined to believe Russia over the USA in regards to what THEY did or didn't do in relation to the USA


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: demiu5]
    #24403470 - 06/13/17 07:53 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24403492 - 06/13/17 07:57 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:






even so, Russia has little reason to "keep up appearances" with the majority of the US population, whereas the US government has every reason to "keep up appearances" with the [majority of the] US population


motive says a lot, imo


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: demiu5]
    #24403500 - 06/13/17 08:02 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:






even so, Russia has little reason to "keep up appearances" with the majority of the US population, whereas the US government has every reason to "keep up appearances" with the [majority of the] US population


motive says a lot, imo




It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.

If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24403540 - 06/13/17 08:16 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.



The best way to do that is to stay innocent.  :shrug:

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.



But why Trump?  As others mentioned, if they had a choice Russia should have picked Sanders.  Trump only met Putin once very briefly at a Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.  I don't think that's enough for Russia to determine Trump is "their man".


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon]
    #24403597 - 06/13/17 08:39 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

demiu5 said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
I'm observing the same.

I'm sure someone can find some instances where Russia lied, but there seem to be WAY more examples from the US.  :shrug:






even so, Russia has little reason to "keep up appearances" with the majority of the US population, whereas the US government has every reason to "keep up appearances" with the [majority of the] US population


motive says a lot, imo




It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.

If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.






the global community is, for all intents and purposes, a political community.  the citizens have very little to do with it.  again, Russia has no real motive if the citizens of the US like/dislike Russia/Russian politics


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24403644 - 06/13/17 08:57 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Cinnamon said:
It's in Russia's every interest to appear innocent to the global community, not just the U.S.



The best way to do that is to stay innocent.  :shrug:

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
If they thought they get away with meddling in an election and not be caught, I'm sure they'd do it.



But why Trump?  As others mentioned, if they had a choice Russia should have picked Sanders.  Trump only met Putin once very briefly at a Miss Universe pageant in Moscow.  I don't think that's enough for Russia to determine Trump is "their man".




He did talk a lot about wanting to work with them.
which honestly, I believe Russia in wanting to work with the U.S.

But if they hacked the election to ensure that happens, they kind of undermined themselves and set the relations back even further.

Which is why it's extremely confusing that they'd be openly expressing willingness to work with the U.S but at the same time intentionally try to undermine it's election process.


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Re: Shroomery Mock Trial. The honorable judge, ballsalsa, presiding [Re: Cinnamon] * 1
    #24403685 - 06/13/17 09:20 PM (6 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Cinnamon said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But why Trump?  As others mentioned, if they had a choice Russia should have picked Sanders.



He did talk a lot about wanting to work with them.
which honestly, I believe Russia in wanting to work with the U.S.

But if they hacked the election to ensure that happens, they kind of undermined themselves and set the relations back even further.

Which is why it's extremely confusing that they'd be openly expressing willingness to work with the U.S but at the same time intentionally try to undermine it's election process.



Still, I think Bernie would have been a much safer choice as a partner for Russia to work with.  :shrug:


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