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Birthright citizenship
    #25608378 -

Some people say that according to the Constitution, anybody born on US soil is a citizen. However, there are people who were born in US yet who are not citizens, namely the children of ambassadors and other foreign dignitaries. This seems to tell me that being born on US soil is not all that it takes to be granted citizenship. And if we can deny citizenship to one group of people who were born in the States, then surely we can also do this to the anchor babies.

What do you think?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25608455 -

I think you haven’t read the constitution. It specifically exempts people who “are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.” Unless you believe illegal aliens are not subject to the laws of the US while inside the US, then the birthright exception doesn’t apply. The language is not ambiguous at all.

I would add, from a practical point of view, nobody ever pays attention to this exception either. I know a number of people who are US citizens born in the US while their parents were here as diplomats. Essentially, if you have a US birth certificate, the US says you are a citizen. This makes sense since any other policy would require additional proof of citizenship beyond a birth certificate.

[Mod Edit; Removed Personal Attack]


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by Enlil (11/12/18 07:49 AM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25608615 -

I hope they can stop anchor babies without changing the constitution.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25608738 -

The Constitution is clear.  It would take an amendment to remove birthright citizenship.

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Enlil]
    #25608917 -

Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25608996 -

krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609326 -

krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


Yes.

It was when I was doing factory work. The factory would hire convicts in halfway houses, illegal immigrants, and Joe shmoe. The point is they hired anyone.

The Hispanics, most of them, could not speak English, which made working in the quality department a terribly difficult job.

Some of them used drugs as well.

Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through. Many lines failed to complete their assemblies due to the inability to read the English on their blueprints. The line leaders would use pictures and skip the words, which made re-work a common occurrence. Which lost the company money, customers, and so forth.



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TRUMP 2020

Edited by XUL (11/12/18 12:01 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25609514 -

Did you honestly just complain that “some of them used drugs?”

The company was probably desperate for anyone to fill the position because half the applicants couldn’t pass a drug test.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (11/12/18 01:19 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25609563 -

XUL said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


Yes.

It was when I was doing factory work. The factory would hire convicts in halfway houses, illegal immigrants, and Joe shmoe. The point is they hired anyone.

The Hispanics, most of them, could not speak English, which made working in the quality department a terribly difficult job.

Some of them used drugs as well.

Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through. Many lines failed to complete their assemblies due to the inability to read the English on their blueprints. The line leaders would use pictures and skip the words, which made re-work a common occurrence. Which lost the company money, customers, and so forth.




This is a direct result of your former employer's hiring practices, not the fault of those convicts and immigrants. To you it may have appeared to cost the company money and customers, and it may have in the short term. But if it was a long term problem that couldn't be resolved with additional training they would have changed their ways and either paid more to hire qualified people, offshored the work, or gone out of business.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: MycoMinded] * 2
    #25609584 -

Quote:
Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through


Poor thing having to deal with people who aren’t exactly like you.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25609594 -

Brown people are scary, bro.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609597 -

krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


He probably lives someplace where "Mexican food" is burnt chicken, black beans and Spanish rice.  Poor bastard.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: MycoMinded]
    #25609702 -

MycoMinded said:
XUL said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


Yes.

It was when I was doing factory work. The factory would hire convicts in halfway houses, illegal immigrants, and Joe shmoe. The point is they hired anyone.

The Hispanics, most of them, could not speak English, which made working in the quality department a terribly difficult job.

Some of them used drugs as well.

Most of the Hispanics were nice, but it was an experience and cultural shock that was difficult to work through. Many lines failed to complete their assemblies due to the inability to read the English on their blueprints. The line leaders would use pictures and skip the words, which made re-work a common occurrence. Which lost the company money, customers, and so forth.




This is a direct result of your former employer's hiring practices, not the fault of those convicts and immigrants. To you it may have appeared to cost the company money and customers, and it may have in the short term. But if it was a long term problem that couldn't be resolved with additional training they would have changed their ways and either paid more to hire qualified people, offshored the work, or gone out of business.


Yes, the first contractor went bankrupt.

The second had several layoffs.

From what I understand they are operating at minimum capacity now.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25609824 -

qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.


I asked exactly what I meant to. I want to know how people are personally affected. "The american people" are often indistinguishable from false or highly exaggerated rhetoric so instead of a base claim of for instance, "they steal our jobs," "they drive up healthcare costs" I would prefer to hear personal anecdotes or see actual data and build my own picture of "how the american people are affected."

@XUL Thank you for sharing. I am inclined to agree with others that while illegal immigrantion was involved the problem seems to stem from management/HR to me. To blame the employees in this case seems to me like blaming guns for shootings instead of the ones pulling the trigger.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609858 -

The place where trump got the most votes happen to also be the places where immigrants both illegal and legal are least concentrated. why do the people who have the least experience with the issue have such strong feelings?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609860 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.


I asked exactly what I meant to. I want to know how people are personally affected. "The american people" are often indistinguishable from false or highly exaggerated rhetoric so instead of a base claim of for instance, "they steal our jobs," "they drive up healthcare costs" I would prefer to hear personal anecdotes or see actual data and build my own picture of "how the american people are affected."

@XUL Thank you for sharing. I am inclined to agree with others that while illegal immigrantion was involved the problem seems to stem from management/HR to me. To blame the employees in this case seems to me like blaming guns for shootings instead of the ones pulling the trigger.


But people don't need to prove that they have been personally affected in order to care about an issue.  For example, some dogs are being skinned alive in China.  This does not affect me personally, however I still feel very strongly about it.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25609864 -

My experience was in PA.


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: krypto2000]
    #25609911 -

krypto2000 said:
qman said:
krypto2000 said:
Have you been personally affected by illegal immigrantion XUL?


The question is how have US citizens been affected by illegal immigration.


I asked exactly what I meant to. I want to know how people are personally affected. "The american people" are often indistinguishable from false or highly exaggerated rhetoric so instead of a base claim of for instance, "they steal our jobs," "they drive up healthcare costs" I would prefer to hear personal anecdotes or see actual data and build my own picture of "how the american people are affected."



No, because if someone claims they were physically or sexually assaulted by an illegal, we know the next words out of some people mouths. 

You're not really looking for personal experiences, you're looking to minimize the impact of illegal immigration,

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25609932 -

I have ppl at my work who don’t speak English. It makes it harder, and it’s annoying. I personally wouldn’t hire anyone who can’t speak or read English. That’s just me


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Rate me here

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Citizen X]
    #25610015 -

the constitution says you have to be born in the united states AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof. this was mainly to protect the tribal soverenty of native americans. so that if they were born in the usa the laws of the usa couldnt be forced upon them. if someone is a tourist or an illegal immigrant in the usa, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country and their children shouldnt be automatically given citizenship.

the way i look at it is if someone is a legal resident then sure their children can be citizens. but i dont think citizenship should be granted to the children of tourists or peopsle who entered the country illegally. maybe you arent a citizen yet but if you have a work visa and job and are working toward citizenship then fine.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #25610031 -

BANANA.MAN said:
the constitution says you have to be born in the united states AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof. this was mainly to protect the tribal soverenty of native americans. so that if they were born in the usa the laws of the usa couldnt be forced upon them. if someone is a tourist or an illegal immigrant in the usa, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country and their children shouldnt be automatically given citizenship.

the way i look at it is if someone is a legal resident then sure their children can be citizens. but i dont think citizenship should be granted to the children of tourists or peopsle who entered the country illegally. maybe you arent a citizen yet but if you have a work visa and job and are working toward citizenship then fine.


It's been abused for decades in the US, that's why almost every developed nation got rid of their birthright citizenship many years ago.  Only the US and Canada are the big suckers today.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #25610035 -

If illegals werent subject to the jurisdiction of the u.s. then there wouldnt
be so many of them in our prison system.

According to the DOJ over a quarter of all prisoners are illegal.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 1
    #25610041 -

qman said:
BANANA.MAN said:
the constitution says you have to be born in the united states AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof. this was mainly to protect the tribal soverenty of native americans. so that if they were born in the usa the laws of the usa couldnt be forced upon them. if someone is a tourist or an illegal immigrant in the usa, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country and their children shouldnt be automatically given citizenship.

the way i look at it is if someone is a legal resident then sure their children can be citizens. but i dont think citizenship should be granted to the children of tourists or peopsle who entered the country illegally. maybe you arent a citizen yet but if you have a work visa and job and are working toward citizenship then fine.


It's been abused for decades in the US, that's why almost every developed nation got rid of their birthright citizenship many years ago.  Only the US and Canada are the big suckers today.


Leave their rights alone just like you want your rights preserved. Don’t be a hypocrite


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Rate me here

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610043 -

Tourists are definitely subject to the jurisdiction of the u.s.

if a tourist breaks a law they are punished by our standards.

Ever seen locked up abroad?


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610081 -

natedawgnow said:
Tourists are definitely subject to the jurisdiction of the u.s.

if a tourist breaks a law they are punished by our standards.

Ever seen locked up abroad?


Laughable, comparing citizenship requirements and disobeying US laws.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 2
    #25610105 -

We should let the federal government decide who the Constitution applies to.

- small government conservatives


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 1
    #25610314 -

I dont know whats laughable, I was replying to this quote by banana man

BANANA.MAN said:
the constitution says you have to be born in the united states AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof. this was mainly to protect the tribal soverenty of native americans. so that if they were born in the usa the laws of the usa couldnt be forced upon them. if someone is a tourist or an illegal immigrant in the usa, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country and their children shouldnt be automatically given citizenship.

the way i look at it is if someone is a legal resident then sure their children can be citizens. but i dont think citizenship should be granted to the children of tourists or peopsle who entered the country illegally. maybe you arent a citizen yet but if you have a work visa and job and are working toward citizenship then fine.


he apparently doesnt understand what jurisdiction means and doesnt know that
tourists and illegals are both subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S.

ju·ris·dic·tion
noun
1.the official power to make legal decisions and judgments.
synonyms:authority, control, power, dominion, rule, administration, command, sway, leadership, sovereignty, hegemony
2. the extent of the power to make legal decisions and judgments.
"the claim will be within the jurisdiction of the industrial tribunal"
3. a system of law courts; a judicature.

Illegals are subject to our laws and the governments authority and so are tourists

Any person in the us is subject to the jurisdiction thereof
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/515.329


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610320 -

natedawgnow said:
Illegals are subject to our laws


I know you are probably going to call me stupid, however I really want to know.  Why are illegals subject to US laws?  Shouldn't they be subject to the laws of their original country?

Also, if tourists are subject to US laws as well, how come ambassadors and their children aren't?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 2
    #25610346 -

BANANA.MAN said:
the constitution says you have to be born in the united states AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof. this was mainly to protect the tribal soverenty of native americans. so that if they were born in the usa the laws of the usa couldnt be forced upon them. if someone is a tourist or an illegal immigrant in the usa, they are subject to the jurisdiction of their home country and their children shouldnt be automatically given citizenship.

the way i look at it is if someone is a legal resident then sure their children can be citizens. but i dont think citizenship should be granted to the children of tourists or peopsle who entered the country illegally. maybe you arent a citizen yet but if you have a work visa and job and are working toward citizenship then fine.


Lol a Canadian explaining to Americans why foreigners shouldn’t get birthright citizenship.

While the citizenship of former slaves and their children were the reason the birthright granted, that period was when there was a push to colonize the rest of the American territory, and back then there wasn’t really any concept of illegal immigration. There were no visas to speak of. People just showed up and they were let in. The government wanted to make sure their children would be full participants in the country.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25610350 -

TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
Illegals are subject to our laws


I know you are probably going to call me stupid, however I really want to know.  Why are illegals subject to US laws?  Shouldn't they be subject to the laws of their original country?

Also, if tourists are subject to US laws as well, how come ambassadors and their children aren't?


Can we arrest illegals inside the US? If so, then by definition they are subject to our jurisdiction. If they weren’t they would be immune from prosecution for crime. Diplomats have immunity and therefore they are not subject. In practice, nobody blocks citizenship for diplomatic children. A US birth certificate is sufficient proof of citizenship.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (11/12/18 06:44 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25610354 -

Diplomatic immunity only applies to rich arab nationalists. Not desperate refugees.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods] * 1
    #25610359 -

I already stated multiple reasons why. Because they are subject to our laws
and because they are here period. If your feet are on u.s. soil you are subject to
its jurisdiction as pointed out by the link in my last post.

Ambassadors dont count because they are here as a rep of their country and might as well be seen
as that country.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25610363 -

koods said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
Illegals are subject to our laws


I know you are probably going to call me stupid, however I really want to know.  Why are illegals subject to US laws?  Shouldn't they be subject to the laws of their original country?

Also, if tourists are subject to US laws as well, how come ambassadors and their children aren't?


Can we arrest illegals inside the US? If so, then by definition they are subject to our jurisdiction. If they weren’t they would be immune from prosecution for crime.


So, if an ambassador's child breaks a law inside the US, he can also be arrested.  According to your criterion, this means he is subject to US' jurisdiction.  And if this is true, then he should automatically be granted US citizenship (assuming he was born on US soil) but he is not.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610364 -

Explain how a baby born in America is subject to a different nation’s laws


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610366 -

I banged a dude from South America recently who has diplomatic immunity. He could have killed me if he wanted.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods] * 1
    #25610369 -

koods said:
I banged a dude from South America recently who has diplomatic immunity. He could have killed me if he wanted.


That’s hot


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610377 -

TinyBee said:
koods said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
Illegals are subject to our laws


I know you are probably going to call me stupid, however I really want to know.  Why are illegals subject to US laws?  Shouldn't they be subject to the laws of their original country?

Also, if tourists are subject to US laws as well, how come ambassadors and their children aren't?


Can we arrest illegals inside the US? If so, then by definition they are subject to our jurisdiction. If they weren’t they would be immune from prosecution for crime.


So, if an ambassador's child breaks a law inside the US, he can also be arrested.  According to your criterion, this means he is subject to US' jurisdiction.  And if this is true, then he should automatically be granted US citizenship (assuming he was born on US soil) but he is not.


If the child is a us citizen, then immunity would not apply. The family of immune diplomats also have immunity under normal circumstances.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25610384 -

koods said:
If the child is a us citizen, then immunity would not apply. The family of immune diplomats also have immunity under normal circumstances.


I am not talking about crime and punishment.  My point is that an ambassador's child is technically subject to US' jurisdiction yet he does not get automatic citizenship.  Why is this?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610387 -

Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610390 -

The Ecstatic said:
Explain how a baby born in America is subject to a different nation’s laws


I never said that. But if you break the law in indonesia by smoking a joint
then you best be ready to spend 50 years in their prison system.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610396 -

The Ecstatic said:
Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


Thats not why.

If you are in another country other than your birth nation, you are subject to their laws and your own nations
laws.

Ambassador children dont get arrested because of the immunity granted by our
govt.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610399 -

The Ecstatic said:
Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


Then my question would be, why would he/she be a citizen of another country instead of US' despite the fact he was born on US soil?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610406 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


Then my question would be, why would he/she be a citizen of another country instead of US' despite the fact he was born on US soil?


I haven’t been following the discussion, who says they’re born on US soil? In that case, there’s a clear extenuating circumstance, being that the parent(s) are ambassadors to a foreign nation.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610413 -

The Ecstatic said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


Then my question would be, why would he/she be a citizen of another country instead of US' despite the fact he was born on US soil?


I haven’t been following the discussion, who says they’re born on US soil? In that case, there’s a clear extenuating circumstance, being that the parent(s) are ambassadors to a foreign nation.


When I say "the child of an ambassador", I am alluding to the fact that said child was born on US soil (but he does not get automatic citizenship).

Edited by TinyBee (11/12/18 07:01 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610421 -

Many countries have statutes that apply to criminal activity of citizens outside their own country. For example, the us routinely prosecutes American sex tourists for foreign illegal activity.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25610425 -

ostensibly its the same for corrupt business practices.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610426 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


Then my question would be, why would he/she be a citizen of another country instead of US' despite the fact he was born on US soil?


I haven’t been following the discussion, who says they’re born on US soil? In that case, there’s a clear extenuating circumstance, being that the parent(s) are ambassadors to a foreign nation.


When I say "the child of an ambassador", I am alluding to the fact that said child was born on US soil (but he does not get automatic citizenship).


If the child was born in the US, but the parents did not pursue citizenship then the kid is not a US citizen. The birthright is not an obligation.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25610430 -

ballsalsa said:
ostensibly its the same for corrupt business practices.


That’s right. Bribery of foreign persons is a crime for US citizens.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610431 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
Because he or she is a citizen of another country. Pretty simple.


Then my question would be, why would he/she be a citizen of another country instead of US' despite the fact he was born on US soil?


I haven’t been following the discussion, who says they’re born on US soil? In that case, there’s a clear extenuating circumstance, being that the parent(s) are ambassadors to a foreign nation.


When I say "the child of an ambassador", I am alluding to the fact that said child was born on US soil (but he does not get automatic citizenship).


I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610441 -

The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25610449 -

XUL said:
I hope they can stop anchor babies without changing the constitution.


why? Everyone else in the US benefited from this system too including Trump's own family, your own family I presume etc.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610473 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.


That is correct.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25610499 -

The Ecstatic said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.


That is correct.


So, what does this tell us?  That's right, having been born on US soil is not all that it takes to be a citizen.  Therefore, we can deny citizenship to children of illegals who were born here.  An exception has already existed.

Edited by TinyBee (11/12/18 07:36 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610502 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.


Like I said before, effectively every child born here gets that citizenship,  even those subject to the exception, because there really isn’t any way to determine froma birth certicate that the exception applies.

I had a friend in college in Montreal who had never been to the US, except for the day that his mother was taken to the US hospital across the border from where they lived to give birth. He was a full citizen with a us passport, despite zero residency.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25610505 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.


That is correct.


So, what does this tell us?  That's right, having been born on US soil is not all that it takes to be a citizen.  Therefore, we can deny citizenship to children of illegals who were born here.  An exception has already existed.


Omg. The exception IS explicitly stated in the constitution and immigrants of any kind do not fall under it.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25610548 -

The constitution says:  "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, AND subject to the jurisdiction thereof".  So, both conditions will have to be met before the baby can become a citizen.  However, children of illegals are not subject to the jurisdiction of US, as such, they fail to satisfy both conditions.  Therefore, they shouldn't be granted citizenship.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25610557 -

TinyBee said:
  However, children of illegals are not subject to the jurisdiction of US


If this statement were accurate, you would be on to something

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25610564 -

ballsalsa said:
TinyBee said:
  However, children of illegals are not subject to the jurisdiction of US


If this statement were accurate, you would be on to something


So why do you think children of illegals are subject to US jurisdiction?  Not saying you are wrong.  I am just wondering.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25610580 -

Because they are subject to the laws and judiciary action of any kind
within the
U.S.

Really this isnt that hard to understand.

26% of our federal prison population is illegal immigrants. If they werent subject
to the jurisdiction of our nation, they wouldn't be in there.


--------------------

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610584 -

TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.


That is correct.


So, what does this tell us?  That's right, having been born on US soil is not all that it takes to be a citizen.  Therefore, we can deny citizenship to children of illegals who were born here.  An exception has already existed.


That’s bad logic. Exceptions exist for every law that exists.


--------------------

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610586 -

natedawgnow said:
Because they are subject to the laws and judiciary action of any kind
within the
U.S.

Really this isnt that hard to understand.

26% of our federal prison population is illegal immigrants. If they werent subject
to the jurisdiction of our nation, they wouldn't be in there.


I don't necessarily agree with jailing illegals in the US.  I feel that the "proper" way to deal with them is to send them back to their original country/s and let their own government try them.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610590 -

what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #25610604 -

Deportation is part of our law. If they are able to be deported then they are subject to
the jurisdiction of the U.S.

You do understand how deportation is part of that jurisdiction right?


--------------------

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610625 -

natedawgnow said:
Deportation is part of our law. If they are able to be deported then they are subject to
the jurisdiction of the U.S.

You do understand how deportation is part of that jurisdiction right?


Not saying you are wrong but are you able to provide a definition for "being subject to the jurisdiction of _____".

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610630 -

sure.
if U.S. law applies to you, you are subject to U.S. jurisdiction.
do you believe that illegal immigrants are not subject to the laws of the U.S. when they are here?

Edit:
Quote:
ju·ris·dic·tion
[ˌjo͝orəsˈdikSH(ə)n]
NOUN

    the official power to make legal decisions and judgments.
    "federal courts had no jurisdiction over the case" · [more]
    synonyms:
    authority · control · power · dominion · rule · administration · command · sway · leadership · sovereignty · ascendancy · hegemony · mastery · say · influence
        the extent of the power to make legal decisions and judgments.
        "the claim will be within the jurisdiction of the industrial tribunal"
        a system of law courts; a judicature.
        "in some jurisdictions there is a mandatory death sentence for murder"
        the territory or sphere of activity over which the legal authority of a court or other institution extends.
        "several different tax jurisdictions"


Edited by ballsalsa (11/12/18 08:47 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #25610633 -

natedawgnow said:
ju·ris·dic·tion
noun
1.the official power to make legal decisions and judgments.
synonyms:authority, control, power, dominion, rule, administration, command, sway, leadership, sovereignty, hegemony
2. the extent of the power to make legal decisions and judgments.
"the claim will be within the jurisdiction of the industrial tribunal"
3. a system of law courts; a judicature.

Illegals are subject to our laws and the governments authority and so are tourists
[/url]


I already defined jurisdiction 2 pages back.

Anyone who is on our soil is subject to our jurisdiction as shown in this link
I posted 2 pages back as well https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/31/515.329


--------------------

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25610644 -

Give me some time.  I need to go to this other forum where I got this idea from.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25610658 -

Jurisdiction is simply another way to say power. If the United states has the power to compel or prohibit any conduct by you,  you are subject to the jurisdiction of the United states.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow] * 3
    #25611243 -

natedawgnow said:
Really this isnt that hard to understand.




it's not an issue of being hard to understand.  he's being purposefully obtuse as a rhetorical device in order to lead the conversation in a predetermined direction, but I'm sure you already figured that out.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611258 -

TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
Deportation is part of our law. If they are able to be deported then they are subject to
the jurisdiction of the U.S.

You do understand how deportation is part of that jurisdiction right?


Not saying you are wrong but are you able to provide a definition for "being subject to the jurisdiction of _____".


Does google not exist where you live?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: koods]
    #25611372 -

koods said:
TinyBee said:
The Ecstatic said:
I don’t think it’s that difficult to differentiate between a birthright citizen and the child of an ambassador.


I am not saying they are completely the same.  However they both have one thing in common: having been born on US soil.  But only one of them gets automatic citizenship.


Like I said before, effectively every child born here gets that citizenship,  even those subject to the exception, because there really isn’t any way to determine froma birth certicate that the exception applies.

I had a friend in college in Montreal who had never been to the US, except for the day that his mother was taken to the US hospital across the border from where they lived to give birth. He was a full citizen with a us passport, despite zero residency.


Thanks for providing a perfect example of how this policy is constantly being abused by outsiders.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25611417 -

What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: MycoMinded]
    #25611754 -

MycoMinded said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
Deportation is part of our law. If they are able to be deported then they are subject to
the jurisdiction of the U.S.

You do understand how deportation is part of that jurisdiction right?


Not saying you are wrong but are you able to provide a definition for "being subject to the jurisdiction of _____".


Does google not exist where you live?


Save your aggression for someone else.

I was not asking for a general definition of "subject to the jurisdiction of".  I was asking to hear their own personal definition of it.  I wanted to know how they defined it.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: relic]
    #25611756 -

relic said:
natedawgnow said:
Really this isnt that hard to understand.




it's not an issue of being hard to understand.  he's being purposefully obtuse as a rhetorical device in order to lead the conversation in a predetermined direction, but I'm sure you already figured that out.


Are you referring to me?  Cause if you are, you are wrong.  I am not being "purposefully obtuse" in order to "lead the conversation".  I genuinely wanted to know.

Edited by TinyBee (11/13/18 11:06 AM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25611780 -

TinyBee said:
MycoMinded said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
Deportation is part of our law. If they are able to be deported then they are subject to
the jurisdiction of the U.S.

You do understand how deportation is part of that jurisdiction right?


Not saying you are wrong but are you able to provide a definition for "being subject to the jurisdiction of _____".


Does google not exist where you live?


Save your aggression for someone else.

I was not asking for a general definition of "subject to the jurisdiction of".  I was asking to hear their own personal definition of it.  I wanted to know how they defined it.


I'm not being aggressive, I'm pointing out the extreme laziness of asking people to explain a very basic concept that you could easily research for yourself. It's not like people's personal interpretations of settled constitutional law matter, unless they happen to be supreme court justices.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: MycoMinded]
    #25611786 -

MycoMinded said:
I'm not being aggressive, I'm pointing out the extreme laziness of asking people to explain a very basic concept that you could easily research for yourself. It's not like people's personal interpretations of settled constitutional law matter, unless they happen to be supreme court justices.


Well, I was not "being lazy".  I simply wanted to hear what they personally thought.  There is nothing wrong with this.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Enlil]
    #25611789 -

Enlil said:
What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


It makes US citizenship meaningless.  Why doesn't every mother fly over to the US a week before the birth of their child to give them US citizenship?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 2
    #25611821 -

same reason i didn't fly to Hawaii for the weekend

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611824 -

ballsalsa said:
same reason i didn't fly to Hawaii for the weekend


And what is that reason?

You should try to debate in a honest fashion by answering qman's (very legitimate) question.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25611829 -

the same reason i didn't drive a porsche to work this morning

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611836 -

ballsalsa said:
the same reason i didn't drive a porsche to work this morning


And what is this reason?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611845 -

There's nothing legitimate about that question at all. It's dumb question with obvious answers. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to get it.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25611849 -

qman knows.
it isn't a terribly complex riddle

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611852 -

christopera said:
There's nothing legitimate about that question at all. It's dumb question with obvious answers. You don't have to be a rocket surgeon to get it.


ballsalsa said:
qman knows.
it isn't a terribly complex riddle


It's totally fine that you are unable to answer qman's question.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611866 -

:burke:

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611871 -

ballsalsa said:
:burke:


I admit that you dodge people's questions with style.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611873 -

It's really hard to figure out why the entire newborn population of the world isn't a U.S. citizen by virtue of flying here the week before birth.

On a scale of 1 to 2, 1 being full retard and 2 being full retard, the question is full retard.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

Edited by christopera (11/13/18 11:55 AM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611880 -

it wasn't a dodge.  if you can't decipher my answer, you need more help than i can give you.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611883 -

christopera said:
It's really hard to figure out why the entire newborn population of the world isn't a U.S. citizen by virtue of flying here the week before birth.

On a scale of 1 to 2, 1 being full retard and 2 being full retard, the question is full retard.


Or how about you actually try to answer qman's question instead of saying how stupid of a question it is.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611887 -

I think these guys believe everyone in the world wants to be American.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611896 -

ballsalsa said:
it wasn't a dodge.  if you can't decipher my answer, you need more help than i can give you.


You should answer a question in an honest way instead of demanding other people be able to read your mind and "decipher your answer".

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 3
    #25611900 -

It's not worth my or anybody's time.

Why don't we all fly to different countries every single time we feel like it? Why don't we all just have visa's and passports and access to international airports and cars to get to and fro and unlimited ability to be wherever we want at any time?

It's really stupid fucking question.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera] * 3
    #25611910 -

Why waste your breath?  This dude’s just another troll.  Maybe if we quit feeding them they’ll disappear.


--------------------
🅂🄸🄶🄼🄰


Helpful Threads
stonesun
Mycolorado’s Tamp Fruit Project
Tampanensis Grow with Mycolorado
bw86's Jalisco Grow

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611916 -

:burke:

:thisfuckinguy:
Why do you think everyone in the world doesn't just fly here for birthright citizenship?
I'm trying to help you think critically

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611921 -

christopera said:
Why don't we all fly to different countries every single time we feel like it? Why don't we all just have visa's and passports and access to international airports and cars to get to and fro and unlimited ability to be wherever we want at any time?



ballsalsa said:
Why do you think everyone in the world doesn't just fly here for birthright citizenship?


You should not answer a question with more questions.

Edited by TinyBee (11/13/18 12:06 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Mycolorado]
    #25611930 -

You're right. I'll stop feeding.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25611931 -

TinyBee said:
christopera said:
Why don't we all fly to different countries every single time we feel like it? Why don't we all just have visa's and passports and access to international airports and cars to get to and fro and unlimited ability to be wherever we want at any time?



ballsalsa said:
Why do you think everyone in the world doesn't just fly here for birthright citizenship?


You should not answer a question with more questions.


Says the guy who has only asked questions for your entire 72 post history.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611936 -

You should not waste all of our time by posting foolishly without understanding the dynamic of this subforum

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 3
    #25611938 -

TinyBee said:
It's totally fine that you are unable to...



relic said:
using "unable to" instead of  'unwilling to'  is where you're wrong, right from the start.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611940 -

christopera said:
TinyBee said:
christopera said:
Why don't we all fly to different countries every single time we feel like it? Why don't we all just have visa's and passports and access to international airports and cars to get to and fro and unlimited ability to be wherever we want at any time?



ballsalsa said:
Why do you think everyone in the world doesn't just fly here for birthright citizenship?


You should not answer a question with more questions.


Says the guy who has only asked questions for your entire 72 post history.


There is nothing wrong with asking a question.  However there is something wrong with answering a question with another question.

Edited by TinyBee (11/13/18 12:08 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25611944 -

Why is that?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611951 -

christopera said:
Why is that?


Because you are not answering the original question.  If you truly have a question that you want to ask, it's fine to ask it, but you should do it after you have honestly answered the original question.

Also, note that this is not "my rule".  This is a very basic, generally held concept.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25611959 -

Oh, can you explain why it's a generally held concept?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25611961 -

I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you provide a definition for "answering the original question"?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611965 -

christopera said:
Oh, can you explain why it's a generally held concept?


I don't know why or how it became a generally held concept (if this is what you are asking).  All I know is that this rule exists.  Again, it is not "my rule".

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611970 -

ballsalsa said:
I'm not saying you're wrong, but can you provide a definition for "answering the original question"?


I don't think such a definition exists.  But most reasonable people can tell whether someone has tried to answer a question.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 3
    #25611975 -

but not you?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 2
    #25611979 -

TinyBee said:
christopera said:
Oh, can you explain why it's a generally held concept?


I don't know why or how it became a generally held concept (if this is what you are asking).  All I know is that this rule exists.  Again, it is not "my rule".


Why would you enforce that rule if you don't know why it should be enforced?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25611982 -

ballsalsa said:
but not you?


False.  You have not attempted to answer qman's question.  All you did was ask more questions (rhetorical ones, at that) and you thought these qualified as answers.  Lol.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25611986 -

christopera said:
TinyBee said:
christopera said:
Oh, can you explain why it's a generally held concept?


I don't know why or how it became a generally held concept (if this is what you are asking).  All I know is that this rule exists.  Again, it is not "my rule".


Why would you enforce that rule if you don't know why it should be enforced?


I don't think I have the power to enforce anything.  If you really want to answer a question with another question, there is nothing I can do about it.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25611995 -

That isn't true.  Is your memory so short?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa] * 2
    #25612008 -

i have to close this thread.  my sides are aching.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25612013 -

ballsalsa said:
That isn't true.  Is your memory so short?


Let's not stoop to insults.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612015 -

I was legitimately wondering why you aren't seemingly capable of remembering that I answered qman, and then you started in with the questions.  It seemed plausible that you might have some sort of memory dysfunction.  Do you?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25612024 -

ballsalsa said:
I was legitimately wondering why you aren't seemingly capable of remembering that I answered qman, and then you started in with the questions.  It seemed plausible that you might have some sort of memory dysfunction.  Do you?


Do you mean this response:  "same reason i didn't fly to Hawaii for the weekend"?

This does not qualify as a real answer to me.  Of course, you are free to disagree.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: ballsalsa]
    #25612051 -

ballsalsa said:
I was legitimately wondering why you aren't seemingly capable of remembering that I answered qman, and then you started in with the questions.  It seemed plausible that you might have some sort of memory dysfunction.  Do you?


So if money isn't an issue, anybody can do what I suggested, correct?   

Isn't that the point you're trying to avoid?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee] * 1
    #25612056 -

TinyBee said:
I don't think I have the power to enforce anything.  If you really want to answer a question with another question, there is nothing I can do about it.



Have you considered that you could just become a pilot and fly your unborn baby here in the plane you own so it could be an American citizen?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25612061 -

christopera said:
TinyBee said:
I don't think I have the power to enforce anything.  If you really want to answer a question with another question, there is nothing I can do about it.



Have you considered that you could just become a pilot and fly your unborn baby here in the plane you own so it could be an American citizen?


I have zero idea what you are trying to say.  I am not a pilot nor do I have an unborn baby. I don't covet US citizenship either.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612064 -

TinyBee said:
christopera said:
TinyBee said:
I don't think I have the power to enforce anything.  If you really want to answer a question with another question, there is nothing I can do about it.



Have you considered that you could just become a pilot and fly your unborn baby here in the plane you own so it could be an American citizen?


I have zero idea what you are trying to say.  I am not a pilot nor do I have an unborn baby. I don't covet US citizenship either.


It's a legitimate question and it should be answered?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: christopera]
    #25612090 -

christopera said:
TinyBee said:
christopera said:
Have you considered that you could just become a pilot and fly your unborn baby here in the plane you own so it could be an American citizen?


I have zero idea what you are trying to say.  I am not a pilot nor do I have an unborn baby. I don't covet US citizenship either.


It's a legitimate question and it should be answered?


I doubt that it's legitimate, of course, you can disagree.  I just did not understand it at all.  I don't have an unborn baby.

Edited by TinyBee (11/13/18 01:17 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612124 -

I just figured that as a bee you had a pilots license to fly that tiny body. Am I incorrect?


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25612160 -

qman said:
Enlil said:
What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


It makes US citizenship meaningless.  Why doesn't every mother fly over to the US a week before the birth of their child to give them US citizenship?


how is it meaningless if it's exactly what the founding fathers meant it to be?

Have you ever read the plaque on the statue of liberty?


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612162 -

natedawgnow said:
qman said:
Enlil said:
What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


It makes US citizenship meaningless.  Why doesn't every mother fly over to the US a week before the birth of their child to give them US citizenship?


how is it meaningless if it's exactly what the founding fathers meant it to be?



You need to prove that the founding fathers wanted people from all over the world to be able to become citizens.

Edited by TinyBee (11/13/18 01:47 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612176 -

They did.....

thats why the wrote it the way they did.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612180 -

natedawgnow said:
They did.....

thats why the wrote it the way they did.


Not saying that I know what motivated people who have been dead for hundreds of years but....I am pretty sure the founding fathers only wanted White Europeans to be able to become citizens.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612186 -

Im sure when the 14th was written they knew there would be more than just whites
comimg here. The FF may not have written it but our gov. did.

It doesnt say, any white person born here, it says any person period


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612189 -

natedawgnow said:
qman said:
Enlil said:
What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


It makes US citizenship meaningless.  Why doesn't every mother fly over to the US a week before the birth of their child to give them US citizenship?


how is it meaningless if it's exactly what the founding fathers meant it to be?

Have you ever read the plaque on the statue of liberty?


No, the Founding Fathers never meant for this type of abuse.  Either way, we can change it, no issue at all. 

"statue of liberty"

What does that have to do with anything?  NOTHING.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 1
    #25612200 -

“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612202 -

natedawgnow said:
Im sure when the 14th was written they knew there would be more than just whites
comimg here. The FF may not have written it but our gov. did.

It doesnt say, any white person born here, it says any person period


You have a strange version of history.  The US had a 90% plus white population for almost all of its history.  That didn't happen by accident.

If it wasn't for the black slaves, it would have been even higher.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612205 -

natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


I don't think we should base our immigration polices on a poem.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25612207 -

Again, since the writing doesnt specify which race, its safe to say that all races
were considered welcome. Do you think they were illiterate and didnt know what they
were writing?


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612211 -

TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


I don't think we should base our immigration polices on a poem.


The poem is based on our immigration policy. DUH


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612214 -

natedawgnow said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


I don't think we should base our immigration polices on a poem.


The poem is based on our immigration policy. DUH


I didn't say it isn't.  But you seem to think that this poem means Americans should throw open their gates and take in just about anybody.  Correct me if wrong.

Edited by TinyBee (11/13/18 02:15 PM)

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612215 -

natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:.


No, the US wanted cheap labor from selected European nations when there was a shortage of labor. 

We never wanted poor people or refugees from all over the world.  After 1965,  everything changed for the worse.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612219 -

natedawgnow said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


I don't think we should base our immigration polices on a poem.


The poem is based on our immigration policy. DUH


:lolwut:

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 1
    #25612220 -

qman said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:.


No, the US wanted cheap labor from selected European nations when there was a shortage of labor. 

We never wanted poor people or refugees from all over the world.  After 1965,  everything changed for the worse.


sounds like a lot of speculation since that isnt written anywhere in our immigration
policy or constitution regarding immigrants


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25612221 -

qman said:
natedawgnow said:
TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


I don't think we should base our immigration polices on a poem.


The poem is based on our immigration policy. DUH


:lolwut:


He said we shouldnt base our immigration policy on a poem.

I was simply pointing out that its the other way around and the plaque is based
on how we view immigrants


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612230 -

natedawgnow said:
He said we shouldnt base our immigration policy on a poem.

I was simply pointing out that its the other way around and the plaque is based
on how we view immigrants


Who is this "we"?  Have you polled a lot of Americans?

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: TinyBee]
    #25612232 -

:facepalm:


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612236 -

natedawgnow said:
:facepalm:


Some Americans welcome immigrants, some don't.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612250 -

natedawgnow said:
qman said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:.


No, the US wanted cheap labor from selected European nations when there was a shortage of labor. 

We never wanted poor people or refugees from all over the world.  After 1965,  everything changed for the worse.


sounds like a lot of speculation since that isnt written anywhere in our immigration
policy or constitution regarding immigrants


The history of US immigration policies isn't speculation, it's all recorded information.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: natedawgnow]
    #25612256 -

TinyBee said:
natedawgnow said:
“Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Sounds to me like they wanted refugees and poor people to come be citizens :shrug:

and no it cant easily be changed.


I don't think we should base our immigration polices on a poem.


The poem is based on our immigration policy. DUH


:lolwut:


He said we shouldnt base our immigration policy on a poem.

I was simply pointing out that its the other way around and the plaque is based
on how we view immigrants


US immigration polices have been very discriminatory in the past based on country of origin.  It had NOTHING to do with people being poor or refugees.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman] * 1
    #25612356 -

qman said:
natedawgnow said:
qman said:
Enlil said:
What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


It makes US citizenship meaningless.  Why doesn't every mother fly over to the US a week before the birth of their child to give them US citizenship?


how is it meaningless if it's exactly what the founding fathers meant it to be?

Have you ever read the plaque on the statue of liberty?


No, the Founding Fathers never meant for this type of abuse.  Either way, we can change it, no issue at all. 

"statue of liberty"

What does that have to do with anything?  NOTHING.


The founders couldn’t predict we would be shooting our selves up either. abusing our right to bear arms by killing each other for no apparent reason.
We can change that too?

Pick and choose your constitutional rights. Why the fuck not?


--------------------


Rate me here

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Citizen X]
    #25612361 -

For real.

I love how conservatives are all for constitutionalism to a point. As soon as
the constitution is contradictory to their belief, its like "fuck the constitution,
we can change that shit!"


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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Citizen X]
    #25612405 -

natedawgnow said:
qman said:
Enlil said:
What makes you think that is an abuse of the policy?


It makes US citizenship meaningless.  Why doesn't every mother fly over to the US a week before the birth of their child to give them US citizenship?


how is it meaningless if it's exactly what the founding fathers meant it to be?

Have you ever read the plaque on the statue of liberty?


No, the Founding Fathers never meant for this type of abuse.  Either way, we can change it, no issue at all. 

"statue of liberty"

What does that have to do with anything?  NOTHING.


The founders couldn’t predict we would be shooting our selves up either. abusing our right to bear arms by killing each other for no apparent reason.
We can change that too?

Pick and choose your constitutional rights. Why the fuck not?


It could be changed, but I doubt they would want to go down that road.

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: qman]
    #25612968 -

"The founders couldn't predict we were going to shoot each other up."

That is laughable consider there was a revolutionary war where revolutionaries fought British tyranny and some of their indian allies.


--------------------
TRUMP 2020

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: XUL]
    #25613418 -

Haha yeah that’s the same thing and super relevant :facepalm:


--------------------


Rate me here

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Re: Birthright citizenship [Re: Citizen X]
    #25613760 -

To XUL fighting a revolution against tyranny is the same as killing teenagers.

Damn those tyrannical teenagers!


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