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bacillus question
    #25585192 -

so I was reading that bacillus can live in myc/in a strain!?  does this mean that clones taken from fruits from a sub that had been spawned with infected grains could harbor endospores that would go unnoticed on agar until xfered to grain where allowed to proliferate and become noticeable?  otherwise I think I could just have a really "dirty" bag of grain.


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25611701 -

so the math just hasn't been adding up for me lately....

ill start with this: (looks clean)

and add to this:  (pc'd for 2 hr at 20 psi)

and get this:  (lookin' good so far...)

but then this:    (Argh, WTF, Goddamnit!!!)


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25612048 -

Seems more likely to be a grain issue, how long did you PC for and at what psi?


--------------------
"How it should & shouldn't look "      "Recognizing contamination"      "Rye Berry Prep"      "Franks G2G"      "Humidity Chamber"      "Agar Recipes"

"How to dial in your monotubs like a Boss"      "Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek"      "Elementary [Damion5050]Coir Tek"        "SGFC"      "SAB Tek"      "Easy AF Shoeboxes"


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Re: bacillus question [Re: Shroomspective]
    #25612173 -

Yes, IMO it seems more like a grain issue, and a mold issue at that. Bacillus subtilus (commonly called wet spot bacteria) causes a slimey appearance on grain -I don't see any of that here.

OP, yes bacteria can ride on both spores and hyphae, in fact in nature they co-inhabitate the same space in the environment. There are tons of scientific papers that investigate the phenomenon, but be warned that unless you have a background in microbiology/bacteriology you may not be able to make much sense of it. By using an agar Rx that includes gentamycin sulphate (an anti-biotic), the bacteria can be killed or at least weakened to the point of it not being an issue. (Bacillus subtilis is gram positive, and G sulphate works best on gram negative bacteria but apparently what it doesn't kill, it at least weakens it enough to make bacterial contamination a non-issue).

If your jars turn colors (usually green or bluish green) after a few days, you will know that mold got in there somehow. If things get wet looking with a sour smell, you have bacteria. Good luck.

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Re: bacillus question [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25612178 -

Looking at your pic on a bigger and better screen, you may indeed have bacteria lol. How does it smell?

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Re: bacillus question [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25612366 -

yeah, no slime or off colors...  smells a bit sweet.  I upped my cook times to 2 hrs @ 20 psi the last batch.  used to just do 90 @ 15 but things have gotten drastic.  the pic of the uncolonized jar is a control  a week after of having been opened in front of the hood for 5 min or so.  from what i can tell its not until the final stages of colonization that everything goes to shit


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

Edited by TedsDead (11/13/18 03:46 PM)

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25612375 -

What filters do you use on the jars? Your PC times sound enough, its def getting up to pressure?


--------------------
"How it should & shouldn't look "      "Recognizing contamination"      "Rye Berry Prep"      "Franks G2G"      "Humidity Chamber"      "Agar Recipes"

"How to dial in your monotubs like a Boss"      "Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek"      "Elementary [Damion5050]Coir Tek"        "SGFC"      "SAB Tek"      "Easy AF Shoeboxes"


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Re: bacillus question [Re: Shroomspective]
    #25612439 -

for filters I use sfd's an some with poly filters.  and yes, i just bought a new gauge incase mine was off from dropping the lid or something like that.  i never see contams on agar.  last batch i just squeezed the whole puck out of the dish into the jars just to eliminate the scalpel as a possible vector.  just blew thru a 50lb bag of wheat troubleshooting this. I was really hoping the grain was my problem but now Im seeing it on the oats too :frown:  picked up some organic rye berries today so Ill give those a shot.


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

Edited by TedsDead (11/13/18 04:28 PM)

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25612459 -

Def weird...The one thing I would say is that your grains look perhaps a touch on the wet side in pic 1. Not saying its the cause, but it sounds like its going to be incremental changes until its fixed

This is how my rye looks why its dry enough


--------------------
"How it should & shouldn't look "      "Recognizing contamination"      "Rye Berry Prep"      "Franks G2G"      "Humidity Chamber"      "Agar Recipes"

"How to dial in your monotubs like a Boss"      "Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek"      "Elementary [Damion5050]Coir Tek"        "SGFC"      "SAB Tek"      "Easy AF Shoeboxes"


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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25612510 -

Strange. I was just about to post that maybe you should try a different type of grain but it looks like you already thought of this. Hope things work out for you -at this point I would be very frustrated.

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Re: bacillus question [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25612538 -

sooo frustrated.  the last time it was this bad was a few yrs ago when i accidentally cultivated my dogs yeast infection... 
Ive been letting my grains dry out overnight on a window screen with a fan blowing over them.  the grains appear dry until about 70% colonization and then the moisture occurs and worsens after repetitive shakes


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

Edited by TedsDead (11/13/18 05:15 PM)

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25612564 -

That sounds like bacteria then, as that's the only timer I see my grains look wet after time. Must be either getting in when you A2G or during..how many transfer generations on Agar are you going before? I usually go to G3 or G4 before using it to try and be on the safer side


--------------------
"How it should & shouldn't look "      "Recognizing contamination"      "Rye Berry Prep"      "Franks G2G"      "Humidity Chamber"      "Agar Recipes"

"How to dial in your monotubs like a Boss"      "Pastywhyte's Easy Agar Tek"      "Elementary [Damion5050]Coir Tek"        "SGFC"      "SAB Tek"      "Easy AF Shoeboxes"


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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25612585 -

You just cracked me up :smile:! If you are considering new sources of grain, keep in mind that micro-organism populations increase over time, even if properly stored. I don't know how much grain you go through but personally I buy small bags from a health food store. This is fine for the amount of growing I do nowadays, but it would have been too expensive when I was going through 50 lbs at a time.

If you are buying 50 lb bags from a feed store realize that depending on where the vendor sources their material from that their bags may be 2 or more years old -fine to use as feed but probably not so good for making spawn. When I was growing lots of oysters, I found that if I had 1/2 a bale of straw left over and tried to use it as substrate the following season, it would always contaminate no matter how long I pasteurized it. Something to think about I guess. Also I agree with what Shroomspective said^. Peace

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Re: bacillus question [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25612741 -

shit, everyone in the neighborhood must've had one.

Quote:
If you are buying 50 lb bags from a feed store realize that depending on where the vendor sources their material from that their bags may be 2 or more years old -fine to use as feed but probably not so good for making spawn.


thats what I was thinking.  Ive been going to the feed store for the price point but i went to the nursery today and got some organic rye from this season. 

I had some plates of fresh clones, some old clones from the fridge that were cleaned up a few generations before A2G, and some ms iso's that were untested but looked killer on plates.    same results with all so far on wheat and oats (although the wheat looked more crusty around the edges and the goo more orange). so maybe a different bacteria in each bag?  Im definitely considering the grain as the source at this point because I've never had this many successive fail attempts  :facepalm3:


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25643704 -

soo, on a later note...  Im now considering that the 'wetness' may have not been bacterial but that the Grains could have been treated with something to prevent spoilage. is this heard of? further research is needed on my part.  After several purposeful transfers of 'wet' grain onto my new  presumably clean grain. I ordered from azure standard, the site rr recommends. I noticed the myc jumped vigorously onto the new rye while the alleged wetness remained a trait of the oats and previously wheat (of the same brand).    its the fact that the wheat and the oats are of the same brand which makes me think it could be a preservative?  otherwise I thought that switching grain types, and just getting a new bag would thwart my nemesis...
However after purchase of my new grains I notice no signs of this wetness :smile: 

p.s.  spawned a couple of the "suspect" mixed jars.  will post pics if success


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25644052 -

hi y all:hi:

I would focus on proper grain moisture and definitely avoid soaking.:pipesmoke:

Is that coffee in the jar?:strokebeard2:

:peace::aum::peace:


--------------------

Every piece of information or picture posted has nothing to do with reality.

Mycorebelz
:peace::1up::peace:

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Re: bacillus question [Re: funga]
    #25646967 -

Yes, thats coffee.  Grain moisture is good. If anything I tend to go on the dry side.  Like I said no problems since this last batch of rye so grain prep is good.  All tubs spawned with the questionable jars started smelling bacterial overnight.


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25758505 -

just to wrap up this thread for future readers.  the issue was indeed the grain itself.  after switching grain suppliers the contamination has been completely resolved :smile:


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

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Re: bacillus question [Re: TedsDead]
    #25762477 -

Glad to hear it tedw. It's always fun to learn stuff, but it sure can be a pain in the arse!

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Re: bacillus question [Re: scarabaeus]
    #25762871 -

oh, yes it was!  learned soo much in the process.  after realizing it to be the grain I feel much more competent in my methods.  now its on like the first time I ever used a flowhood(donkey kong!) :wink:


--------------------
weed gets you through times of no money better than money gets you through times of no weed...  -the fabulous furry freak bros
If you can buy it, you can burn it!



https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/25947396#25947396

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: North Spore Bulk Substrate   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains

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