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OfflineFrog
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Knocked into a different dimension
    #2547722 - 04/11/04 01:59 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

I am seeing that I am not the only one who experienced a "paradigm shift" as a result of going through some undue stress in my personal life.

On this thread, Mystical Craven said:

I'd most likely still be doing exactly what I'm doing right now - sitting on my ass waiting to see where the wind takes me (basically just going with the flow of things and dealing with whatever happens to come along)

I may talk a lot about all this great stuff that I'd love to do with my life, but the truth is nine times out of ten I find my self looking back at stuff I had planned on doing years ago (which for whatever reason never really happened) and then start playing the whole 'what-if' game in an attempt to extropolate where I'd be today had I actually accomplished what I set out to do...and you know what - I haven't ever once thought that any of these roads I had been heading down would've lead me to a quote unquote 'better' place to where I'm at today

par exampla

growing up I always did really really well in school and I always knew some day I'd wind up getting that Valvictorian position and all those uber scholarships that come with it - I knew that I'd go on to college and get the best damn education I could possibly get, and then Id find some job that I'd be perfect for and be making a hundred bazillion dollars a year, and have the perfect wife, and this perfect house, and all that other bullshit...which of course was all fantasy - but an obtainable fantasy though (and not one that would've been all that tough to achieve at the rate I was going) but I got caught up in some bullshit drama that changed my life forever - I suddenly found myself in a position where it was glaringly obvious that this 'perfect' life of mine that I was certain to get, was now completely out of reach...and all because of some bullshit ass curveball that I really had no control over

I was crushed

for years I played 'what if' and I felt sorry for myself, and pissed off at everything that had happened, and even more pissed about the fact that my perfect little life was right down some perfect little drain...

behind all that anger though I was going through some incredible changes, and I did a 180 almost instantly without even realizing I had changed at all - I became a whole new man in a very short period of time, and it wasn't even until long after the change had occured that I finally started understanding why these things had happened

I was on a downward spiral and I didn't even know it - I was digging myself deeper and deeper into this hole without so much as acknowledging the fact that I was headed towards a really bad place...I had been focusing on the superficial aspects of life so exclusively that I failed to consider how my actions were affecting me on a deeper level

I was like a robot really

I spent every waking hour of every day planning out every last little detail of my life, and I didn't even consider anything beyond my own success...whether that be by having everything I ever wanted, or being able to go anywhere I wanted to go or do anything I wanted to do, or even something as simple and stupid of having that prize wife that every other guy in the world would give their left nut just to be seen with her in public - all I wanted was to enflate my ego

I didn't put friends or even family anywhere near the top of my list...I didn't care if I was slowly turning into a creepy emotionless troll or not...it didn't mater to me one way or another if I wound up a miserly old hermit that no one could stand being around - all I cared about was becomming successful in everything I did




and then life through me a curveball


yeah I bitched and moaned about it...I cursed god...I beat myself up over it (and so on and so forth) but much like being on a mushroom trip - I eventually learned that fighting it only made things worse, and so I learned to take up the whole 'shit happens' philosophy and just started going with the flow - I stopped trying to re-claim everything that had been taken from me (i.e. the life I had envisioned for myself) and started learning how to simply accept what I had left to work with

ironically - without all the pressure of having to be 'perfect' all the time and having to do everything in just the right way (and all that other bullshit) I actually became a much more chill guy...I stopped basing my life on meterialistic things (which was also a direct result of the 'curveball' I had been thrown) and started exploring a lot of the unseen forces of the universe (also a direct curveball connection) not to mention my own consciousness and what have you


you see - this one single event started an entire chain reaction that changed everything about who I am...and now that I've seen how it's played out (for the most part anyway) I wouldn't change it for the world - I love who I am, and I'd never go back to the way I used to be


And Viaggio said:

Mystical Craven...your post really hit close to home. (This may steer off topic, but) I too had similar circumstances. Certain assumptions and expectations never became fulfilled due to lively curveballs. These blows to my ego caused me to find the feeling of accomplishment by planning easy to reach goals...mostly materialistic and egotistical in nature.

After a short period of success with this attitude, I was overwhelmed with more curveballs. I made forceful attempts to maintain control by over-planning, but this set me up for further disappointment. Eventually, I gave up, let go, and tried to go with the flow. I decided only to deal with life as it happened instead of before it happened. This was around the time I adapted a more spiritual outlook. Stress does some interesting things to a man.


And I said:

I went through the same thing you went through! I was trying to establish a successful law practice, and almost succeeded, and then all hell broke loose in my life. I lost everything all at once. But then I saw (or I think God showed me) how it would all turn out if I just went with the flow and didn't try to be in charge of it.

At this time, I also achieved a different perspective on life and the universe and saw how we and events are all interconnected. And that God is taking care of everything.

I am still trying to be successful, but not because of material reasons, although I still wouldn't mind being materialistically successful.

I just get the feeling that I'm doing what I am meant to be doing, and that if I keep looking for the signs of where I'm supposed to be, everything will come out well.


To be more specific, within a 2 month period, I lost my home, my marriage, my office, and had to send one of my kids away. I nearly went crazy.

I had been on an upward spiral of success in getting a law practice going at the time this all happened. When I experienced the stress, it caused me to see that I wasn't as in control as I had thought.

I was wrapped up in my life, and what I was trying to accomplish. I thought I was in control. Because of the stress, I could see I wasn't in control after all. I had to let go and watch what happened. There was a big sense of relief in letting go of that which I thought I controlled.

Here's what I think happened:

If God/Universe is ultimately in control in my life, what exactly did I think I was in control of? And if the stress caused me to see things differently, meaning I could see that the universe (God) ultimately had a plan, then I just had to sit back, let go of the control I thought I had, and watch for signs that would indicate what I was supposed to do next.

Emerson says that we are here to do what God intends for us to do, and figuring out what it is we are supposed to do is easy, if we watch for the signs that are like guide posts. Not many of us know how to watch for signs. We're too caught up in being in control of our lives.

If we can learn to watch for the signs that indicate what we are supposed to be doing, then we will have greater harmony in our lives. I have harmony in my life, even thought those who are materialistically-focused might say that I am not doing well.

The harmony comes from always doing what is right, and watching for signs, and obeying the signs when I see them. I have been watching for 2 years now, although I can look back over my life and see where there were signs all along the way, indicating that I should be exactly where I am right now.

I know that people are going to say that this means that we don't have free will, if we are here to do what ever it is we are meant to do, and that this would mean our fate is predetermined.

But if you keep in mind that we still have free will to ignore the signs, not look for the signs, or not follow the signs, then our fate is not predetermined.

So my main interest in posting this thread is that if I and 2 others had similar experiences with stress that was significant enough to cause a paradigm shift, so that we could each see, individually and apart from each other, that God/Universe is in control, how many others has this happened to?

Is it a fluke that we three each interpreted the stress in the same manner? Are there others that had a similar experience? Can anyone explain this?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: Frog]
    #2548258 - 04/11/04 09:04 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Is it a fluke that we three each interpreted the stress in the same manner? Are there others that had a similar experience? Can anyone explain this?

It is cultural. And of course you all survived. Those that were killed, extremely disabled, committed sucide or failed to recover from life's stress are not telling their tale of success. This is self-filtering.

Despite my copious posting; as always, I suggest a real-world test instead of philosophical blather. Start a class here wherein all the participants rate their daily happiness quotient, then teach us how to recognize the signs that direct us to a better life. Then at the end we will all compare our happiness quotient again (or another metric of choice chosen at the beginning).

There is a fallacy that many programmers and analysts fall into when trying to predict the stock market. They take the last few years worth of data for a specific stock or small section of the market and come up with formulas that actually work when tested on historical data. This is called back-fitting. It looks like alchemy and "appears to work". However it has NO predictive value whatsoever.

In a similar fashion, "recognizing signs" years later is equally meaningless.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: Frog]
    #2548368 - 04/11/04 10:50 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Hello all,

Frog: I love your posts (yours too Swami and Mystical Craven's and most everyone else's on here). You all have inspired me this Easter am to make a reply. I'm not sure this is exactly on topic but here goes:

I am confused by signs. I see them everywhere all the time. Syncronicities are an everyday, minute by minute thing in my life. It's almost  surreal. One sign says "go left" then another that says, "go right," one says, up and another down, spin clockwize, now counter clockwise now stand on your head and touch your nose. They're all over the place calling one way and the other and back again. It's dizzying. And no matter what I do, which sign I choose to follow or not to follow, in hindsight, I have always followed one or another of them, correctly or not, for good or ill. I'm never sure if I've made the right choice.

How do you know that

(A) you've interpreted the sign(s) correctly? and

(B) that the choice(s) you've made with respect to those signs is correct?

fwiw, Emerson also said that "truth is beautiful but so are lies" or some such. :confused:


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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: ]
    #2548410 - 04/11/04 11:13 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Welcome to S&P bufo!

The answer is (or at least my answer is) that you don't. In the much ballyhooed book "The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge", the sorcerer's apprentice is told to take note of a crow flying over his shoulder as a sign of impending danger (how this arbitrary connection is made is conveniently not explained). Later another crow flies by and Carlos gets nervous. Don Juan tells him to relax as it is just a crow flying by.

Such is the ephemeral nature of signs. To buy into this mystical viewpoint a number of huge assumptions have to be made:

1. God or our spirit (or substitute entity of choice) exists and takes part in our daily lives.

2. Said entity is guiding us through external phenomenon.

3. Said entity delights in making these signs obscure and impossible to decipher.

4. That with just a little bit more awareness that we can make sense of these signs.

This is as much nonsense as reading tea leaves, chicken bones or the I Ching. You have been given a rational mind. Use it! Remember, if one ONLY knows if one has taken the right road many miles later, then the map is useless.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: Swami]
    #2548618 - 04/11/04 12:46 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the welcome Swami.

I hear what you are saying about what I call a "healthy skepticism" and say that most of the time I am sympathetic to that mode of thought. I mean without it, I'd go nuts!

However,

sometimes the coincidence is so timely and true and significant and overwhelmingly relevant that I cannot rest with the notion that it is a mere thing. Its like too, too much. Even my rational mind goes whoa! What the heck is this!?! And really, its my rational mind that won't let it go. It keeps working on it and making more and more sense out of it and it becomes more and more relevent. Its like a leap of faith to dismiss it. Reason becomes a leap of faith. Trust in reason. Very confusing.


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: Swami]
    #2548731 - 04/11/04 03:32 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
It is cultural. And of course you all survived. Those that were killed, extremely disabled, committed sucide or failed to recover from life's stress are not telling their tale of success. This is self-filtering.




Excuse me, Swami, but maybe if they had survived, they would have come out of the experience with a different view of life, too. And there are people who have traumatic experiences and their view of life doesn't shift at all.

My post has to do with who has experienced a traumatic event, or events, and subsequently viewed life and the universe differently, in the manner as posted in my first post.

mkay?

Quote:

Despite my copious posting; as always, I suggest a real-world test instead of philosophical blather. Start a class here wherein all the participants rate their daily happiness quotient, then teach us how to recognize the signs that direct us to a better life. Then at the end we will all compare our happiness quotient again (or another metric of choice chosen at the beginning).




How can you call it philosophical blather? The three of us had similar experiences, at different times, apart from each other, yet came out of the experiences feeling similar shifts in the way we see the universe. Blather? It's not as if we came up with some theory that we think should work if someone would only try it. We each experienced this.

Quote:

There is a fallacy that many programmers and analysts fall into when trying to predict the stock market. They take the last few years worth of data for a specific stock or small section of the market and come up with formulas that actually work when tested on historical data. This is called back-fitting. It looks like alchemy and "appears to work". However it has NO predictive value whatsoever.

In a similar fashion, "recognizing signs" years later is equally meaningless.




Sorry, Swami, but simply because you haven't learned to look at the universe in a manner differently than the way you have always seen it doesn't mean there is no other way of looking at it.

My post isn't about a "theory". It's about actual experiences that cause a different way of seeing the world, and one that works for me, quite frankly. I'm not here to convince you that what I say is right or true, I'm just here to say that this is my experience, and to see if anyone else has had this experience. To also find someone who might be able to explain what happened.

Also, I'm not saying how spiffy I am for applying signs retroactively. Nor am I saying yet that I can predict the future. I'm saying that there are events that come up all the time, and I have to make a choice. I believe that out of all the choices that are open to me, one of them is the correct choice. I still have to use my mind to make the right choice, but it's not that difficult.

Then, I can go back and look at where I made choices and which were the right choices and which were the wrong choices.

It's going to be different for each of us, the signs that are there to be followed. Sometimes, though, it's glaringly obvious.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Edited by Frog (04/11/04 04:24 PM)


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OfflineFrog
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Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: ]
    #2548894 - 04/11/04 06:15 PM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bufo said:
Hello all,

Frog: I love your posts (yours too Swami and Mystical Craven's and most everyone else's on here). You all have inspired me this Easter am to make a reply. I'm not sure this is exactly on topic but here goes:




Hi, bufo, and glad you joined us!  Don't listen to Swami, though.  Just listen to me!  (j/k)  Actually I like it when Swami posts his rhetoric because it forces me to analyze more deeply what I believe and why, and if necessary, throw something out. 

Quote:

I am confused by signs. I see them everywhere all the time. Syncronicities are an everyday, minute by minute thing in my life. It's almost  surreal. One sign says "go left" then another that says, "go right," one says, up and another down, spin clockwize, now counter clockwise now stand on your head and touch your nose. They're all over the place calling one way and the other and back again. It's dizzying. And no matter what I do, which sign I choose to follow or not to follow, in hindsight, I have always followed one or another of them, correctly or not, for good or ill. I'm never sure if I've made the right choice.

How do you know that

(A) you've interpreted the sign(s) correctly? and

(B) that the choice(s) you've made with respect to those signs is correct?




I tried answering this question, and then lost it when I tried posting.  This will of course be my second-best answer.  And I knew this question was coming, and I've been thinking about it for a couple of days.

There are different signs coming at us all the time.  We still have to use our brains to differentiate between which sign we should follow. 

I usually have to use an example.

This past week, an attorney contacted me regarding some work on which she wanted me to do.  It could lead into more, bigger better work.  But there were little red flags surrounding the whole situation.  We had entered into negotiations, but at the end, I felt uneasy. 

At the end of the week, another attorney with whom I have already associated with on other matters contacted me and said that he was taking on a lot more transactional work and wanted me to commit to 20 hours per week on it.  He was paying double what the other attorney would pay. 

I think it's obvious which way to go.  These are still signs that I'm headed in the right direction, because they are both related to the legal industry, and I know that I am meant to work as an attorney, but I still have to use my brain to discern which is the best course to take, who I should work with, what type of work to do.  (Honestly, I'm still not sure why God wants me to be an attorney, but all signs since I was 16 indicate that I am on the right path.)

Taking the wrong course will set me back.  Taking the right course will keep me going in the right direction, and prevent distractions from getting in the way of what it is I'm supposed to be doing, and where it is I'm supposed to end up.

Here is something interesting.  That first attorney?  She told me that she had told that paralegal who referred me to her a few months ago that she was looking for someone to run her office. 

At the same time, I had told this paralegal that I was looking for office space in exchange for making appearances.  He didn't tell her about me then, because he was hoping to get the position himself.  Instead, he told me about another attorney who had office space available. 

The attorney with whom I now share an office is honest and steady and fair and all the things I could want in a partner (he is now my partner).  His office is a little shabby, but I'd rather be in a somewhat shabby office with someone who is honest than in a fancy office with someone who is a commercial whore.

The attorney that wanted to use me has really nice offices with really nice furniture.  But she's a bitch.  I heard her yelling at her employees.  She told me she was firing someone who needed the job because she was mad at the person who referred that employee to her. 

If I was into materialism, I would be mad at the paralegal for not telling me about the nice plushy office, where I could have made $8000 per month for 2 months, and had a really nice office.  Instead, I am really greatful that he didn't tell me about it, because it caused me to be here with a good attorney who isn't an asshole.  I'd rather be in a shabby office with an honest attorney than in a fancy office with an asshole.

So see, we have to go with the flow of things.  We can't become upset because we didn't get what we think would be good for us because sometimes we don't know what would be good for us, or maybe the universe is just watching out for us.  "Synchronicity", don't you know.  :grin:

At the same time, we also have to pay attention to the details that accompany what appears to be a sign.  We are still expected to use our minds in interpreting events, and not just expect that the universe is going to whack us willy nilly into whatever circumstance we should be. 

Because I am a Christian, I also believe in asking God to show me what is His will, because that is the number one priority is doing His will.  Whatever it is I am here to do is because it's what God wants me to do. 

My daughter usually asks God for more signs to indicate that what she is interpreting as a sign is actually a sign from God.


Quote:

fwiw, Emerson also said that "truth is beautiful but so are lies" or some such. :confused:




Yes.  There was another attorney with whom I associated who sounded really good.  His lies were beautiful, and I moved into his offices.  But there were little red flags, as well, and I ignored those.  After a year, I had to move out because I found out that he was ripping me off.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


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InvisibleSclorch
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Re: Knocked into a different dimension [Re: Swami]
    #2549804 - 04/12/04 02:48 AM (12 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Swami said:
The answer is (or at least my answer is) that you don't. In the much ballyhooed book "The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge", the sorcerer's apprentice is told to take note of a crow flying over his shoulder as a sign of impending danger (how this arbitrary connection is made is conveniently not explained). Later another crow flies by and Carlos gets nervous. Don Juan tells him to relax as it is just a crow flying by.



OR
Don Juan is just trying to instill in Carlos a fearful mindset. Then Don sets himself up as a superior being by appearing fearless in spite of such an obvious "sign of danger". This gives Don Juan a direct line to the critical emotional centers of Carlos' brain. With just a few tugs, Don is Carlos' link to the divine. Don has now earned a follower and Carlos will do almost anything to keep their bond intact.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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