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Shop: Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 1
    #24898281 -

So maybe censorship is the appropriate word, not fascism.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24898339 -

The Ecstatic said:
So maybe censorship is the appropriate word, not fascism.


If you don't see the historical correlation, you're being disingenuous.

Either way, people that support this nonsense are only making things even worse.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24898356 -

The reason leftists reject the use of the word "fascism" to describe Anti-Fascist movements, is because they ultimately link the term to racism. Some thing which they claim to be against.
The Nazis were deemed to be racist by Anti-Fascists primarily because of their views and actions toward Jews (Despite Judaism being a religion, not a race)
However, it's worth noting that other fascist movements have been far more ambiguous than Nazi Germany and racism does not have to be inherently linked to fascism, despite the mainstream narrative today that it does.
A narrative that comes from the spread of post war propoganda after the fall of the Nazis.

Having said that, if you feel that racism is inherently linked to the term, then many Anti-Fascist movements hold views deemed by many to be racist toward white people. Which would of course see the use of the term fitting for these movements in the eyes of those people.


--------------------
Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story NEVER Told - Official Trailer

The National Socialist Revolution - THINK DIFFERENT

EUROPA – The Last Battle - The Truth Fears No Investigation

Edited by Bubbles85 (01/08/18 01:56 PM)

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: viktor] * 1
    #24898708 -

viktor said:
Refugees are to blame though. If they ween't there, there would be plenty more money to go around to take care of your own people.


Thats why wealth inequality is worse in the US (no refugees) than much of Europe (millions of reugees), right?


Guys. Capitalism is an ethical and just system, so long as you don't have any refugees.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24898786 -

The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
Refugees are to blame though. If they ween't there, there would be plenty more money to go around to take care of your own people.


Thats why wealth inequality is worse in the US (no refugees) than much of Europe (millions of reugees), right?


Guys. Capitalism is an ethical and just system, so long as you don't have any refugees.


How many migrants can the governments of the US/EU support without it affecting the social services and standards of living for the native citizens? 

The pie under the best of conditions is only so large, what do you think happens when you keep slicing it up into smaller and smaller pieces?

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Bubbles85] * 1
    #24898795 -

Bubbles85 said:
The reason leftists reject the use of the word "fascism" to describe Anti-Fascist movements, is because they ultimately link the term to racism.


It probably has more to do with the fact that a lot of them identify themselves as anarchists, which makes nationalist politics antithetical to their core beliefs.

Also, what the fuck do you care about what a bunch of infoshop kids call themselves?  Does it trigger your feels and whatnot?

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 1
    #24898800 -

qman said:
The pie under the best of conditions is only so large, what do you think happens when you keep slicing it up into smaller and smaller pieces?


You get a stupid analogy that doesn't even really reflect how a national economy works.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24898824 -

The Ecstatic said:
Guys. Capitalism is an ethical and just system


It can be, as long as you enforce some standard of ethics instead of letting your society spin out into a plutocracy.  People should be rewarded for going above and beyond the bare minimum and, in all honesty, your economy should reflect reality instead of political pseudo-science and a bunch decisions made by committee.  If your leadership sucks when your economic policy has swung to one extreme then your leadership is still going to suck when your economic policy swings to another extreme.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: chibiabos]
    #24898836 -

chibiabos said:
qman said:
The pie under the best of conditions is only so large, what do you think happens when you keep slicing it up into smaller and smaller pieces?


You get a stupid analogy that doesn't even really reflect how a national economy works.


You do understand that tax revenue is a finite resource and distributing that same resource to more people means their share gets smaller?

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 1
    #24898848 -

qman said:
chibiabos said:
qman said:
The pie under the best of conditions is only so large, what do you think happens when you keep slicing it up into smaller and smaller pieces?


You get a stupid analogy that doesn't even really reflect how a national economy works.


You do understand that tax revenue is a finite resource and distributing that same resource to more people means their share gets smaller?


Yes.  Do you understand the difference between the property of being finite and the property of being immutable?

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: chibiabos]
    #24898852 -

chibiabos said:
Bubbles85 said:
The reason leftists reject the use of the word "fascism" to describe Anti-Fascist movements, is because they ultimately link the term to racism.


It probably has more to do with the fact that a lot of them identify themselves as anarchists, which makes nationalist politics antithetical to their core beliefs.

Also, what the fuck do you care about what a bunch of infoshop kids call themselves?  Does it trigger your feels and whatnot?


Bull shit. Some may be anarchists but most are communists. Also you're the only one who's just rocked up in here triggered.  :whatever:


--------------------
Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story NEVER Told - Official Trailer

The National Socialist Revolution - THINK DIFFERENT

EUROPA – The Last Battle - The Truth Fears No Investigation

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24898863 -

LARPing communists, fighting a wholly imaginary enemy I might add.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman]
    #24898937 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
So maybe censorship is the appropriate word, not fascism.


If you don't see the historical correlation, you're being disingenuous.

Either way, people that support this nonsense are only making things even worse.


The historical correlation is authoritarianism.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman]
    #24898965 -

qman said:
MushiesAreVegan said:
Ok germany spent like 17 Billion euros for the refugee crisis in 2016

since 2008, at least 236 Billion euros have been spent on saving the banks

Im just saying that there is more than enough money around to stop the crisis that germany and the eu themselves created with natos help. They made hundreds of billions selling arms so saudi arabia, iraq, turkey etc...


If you can't see the distinction between using money to bailout financial institutions and supporting economic migrants, I don't know what to tell you.


What distinction are you talking about exactly?  Are you saying paying more to bailout financial institutions is better than paying less to help refugees?  Are you saying it's ok to give money to billionaires, but not poor people?  Are you finally agreeing the bailouts were necessary?  What are you saying exactly?

qman said:
I'm sorry to break the news, but the vast majority of EU governments are insolvent, just wait until that reality hits the EU as there won't be a liberal to be found.


Yet again, I don't think you know what insolvent means.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24898993 -

The Ecstatic said:
Guys. Capitalism is an ethical and just system, so long as you don't have any refugees.



:heytherebadboy:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24899019 -

Another straw man. Ho-hum.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 1
    #24899090 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
Refugees are to blame though. If they ween't there, there would be plenty more money to go around to take care of your own people.


Thats why wealth inequality is worse in the US (no refugees) than much of Europe (millions of reugees), right?


Guys. Capitalism is an ethical and just system, so long as you don't have any refugees.


How many migrants can the governments of the US/EU support without it affecting the social services and standards of living for the native citizens? 

The pie under the best of conditions is only so large, what do you think happens when you keep slicing it up into smaller and smaller pieces?


Why do the merits of my political philosophy rest on the actions of institutions that fly in the face of that philosophy, like the EU?

You are assuming the pie. You are assuming its size, and a million other things. Either way, the economy isnt a zero sum game so its a bad analogy.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24899113 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
MushiesAreVegan said:
Ok germany spent like 17 Billion euros for the refugee crisis in 2016

since 2008, at least 236 Billion euros have been spent on saving the banks

Im just saying that there is more than enough money around to stop the crisis that germany and the eu themselves created with natos help. They made hundreds of billions selling arms so saudi arabia, iraq, turkey etc...


If you can't see the distinction between using money to bailout financial institutions and supporting economic migrants, I don't know what to tell you.


What distinction are you talking about exactly?  Are you saying paying more to bailout financial institutions is better than paying less to help refugees?  Are you saying it's ok to give money to billionaires, but not poor people?  Are you finally agreeing the bailouts were necessary?  What are you saying exactly?

qman said:
I'm sorry to break the news, but the vast majority of EU governments are insolvent, just wait until that reality hits the EU as there won't be a liberal to be found.


Yet again, I don't think you know what insolvent means.


"What exactly are you saying?"

Bailing out financial institutions have different economic implications than supporting economic migrants.

"I don't think you know what insolvent means"

I know exactly what it means.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24899123 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
viktor said:
Refugees are to blame though. If they ween't there, there would be plenty more money to go around to take care of your own people.


Thats why wealth inequality is worse in the US (no refugees) than much of Europe (millions of reugees), right?


Guys. Capitalism is an ethical and just system, so long as you don't have any refugees.


How many migrants can the governments of the US/EU support without it affecting the social services and standards of living for the native citizens? 

The pie under the best of conditions is only so large, what do you think happens when you keep slicing it up into smaller and smaller pieces?


Why do the merits of my political philosophy rest on the actions of institutions that fly in the face of that philosophy, like the EU?

You are assuming the pie. You are assuming its size, and a million other things. Either way, the economy isnt a zero sum game so its a bad analogy.


We get it, in your utopia you're going to grab so much wealth and resources from the elite that everyone is going to have more than enough of anything they desire.

So bring on the refugees and economic migrants because there's plenty for everybody, the sky is the limit.

Edited by qman (01/08/18 08:04 PM)

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 1
    #24899166 -

Not anything they desire.

Don't whinge about people being disingenuous when thats your go to response to basically everything.


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