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InvisibleCJay
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A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK
    #2939763 - 07/29/04 11:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What a tremendous job the USA and UK have done (along with a dozen or so other soldiers from somewhere else)in freeing and bringing paece, prosperity and security to Afganistan and Iraq (not to mention the rest of the world):

Opium trade booms in 'basket-case' Afghanistan

"The opium harvest in Afghanistan this year will be one of the biggest on record, the Foreign Office said yesterday, and it has triggered a flood of heroin on Britain's streets.

The revelation will prove highly embarrassing for Tony Blair, who cited cutting the supply of heroin as one of the main reasons for the invasion of Afghanistan in October 2001...

The Taliban had cracked down on drugs cultivators but the regime's fall led to an increase in production and this year's harvest will be the largest since the invasion.

Health workers warned yesterday that the consequences of the rise were already evident: cheaper, better quality heroin was arriving in Britain, luring thousands more youngsters into addiction than ever before.

At the time of the invasion, Mr Blair said: "We act because the al-Qa'ida network and the Taliban regime are funded in large parts on the drugs trade ? 90 per cent of all heroin sold in Britain originates from Afghanistan. Stopping that trade is directly in our interests."

He also told the Labour Party conference on 2 October: "The arms the Taliban are buying today are paid for with the lives of young British people buying their drugs on British streets. That is another part of their regime that we should seek to destroy." "


- Yeah right.

Blair will become expendable to the party and a fall guy one day when his squirmingly false innocence fails, but the work will continue as a new prize bullshitter takes his place. He has done well for the politicians, that is their way.

Governments have traditionally been the biggest traders in drugs, and carried out their actions legally and gloriously (in a drug war that was perpendicular to their about face sham modern drug war).That was until the inflamed moral conscience of the masses meant they had to relegate this activity to their secret services. The immesurable invisible money the drug trade brings is essential to the insatiable appetite for funds and bungs of the secret services and many front end government units too. And so their new territory Afganistan abounds and succeeds far more then it did under the previous invaders. Heroin is one of the (if not the) ultimate capitalist product. No advertising needed, no promotion as such, no nothing - People crawl thru shit to get it and beg and cry for it. Meanwhile the capitalist 'entrepeneur' sits back - money for nothing and chicks for free.


"The claim that cultivation tends to increase before declining gives no comfort and ... is not necessarily the case. It seems to me a hope more akin to peeing in the wind." (Labour MP Harry Cohen)

"Members believe that large areas of Afghanistan are back under the rule of warlords, controlling militias of up to 10,000 men, which are paid for by the profits of the illegal heroin trade."


- Job done:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=545400


A frontier too far

"It survived Soviet occupation, civil war, the Taliban and US-led invasion. But after 24 years of aid work, M?decins sans Fronti?res has been forced by the American military to flee Afghanistan...

A grim shadow was cast over the future of all aid missions to Afghanistan when the French organisation M?decins sans Fronti?res (MSF) said independent humanitarian work could no longer be carried out safely. MSF claimed the American military had endangered the lives of humanitarian volunteers by blurring the distinction between soldiers and aid workers. Five MSF workers were killed last month...

Kenny Gluck, MSF's operations director, denounced US military programmes in southern Afghanistan, which have sometimes promised aid only to villages which provide intelligence on Taliban fighters.

He said: "MSF denounces attempts to use humanitarian aid to win hearts and minds. That jeopardises the aid to people in need and endangers the lives of humanitarian aid workers ... These soldiers are often out of uniform. It's hard to know what nationality they are."

He added: "The US-backed coalition has consistently sought to co-opt humanitarian assistance to build support for its own military and political ambitions."...

The shooting to death of three European and two Afghan staff members last month was described as unprecedented in MSF's 30-year history of working in the world's most violent conflicts. The motive has not been established, but valuables were not taken from the victims' clearly marked car and they were killed in an area known for opium poppy production. MSF believes its staff were deliberately targeted...

One aid worker who has been in Kabul for three years said: "Although the economy is doing well and Afghans are more confident, but foreigners who know the country have never been more scared. There's a real sense of dread about what will happen during the election campaign."


- Economy doing well? Major export = heroin.....UK and USA occupied territory...hmmmmm


"About 20,000 American troops are in Afghanistan. A few British soldiers are stationed as peace-keepers, some manning provincial reconstruction teams, small garrisons which have proved controversial with aid workers, but many have welcomed the security they have brought to cities outside the capital.

Aid groups' concerns centre on the actions of combat troops trying to win over villagers in areas afflicted by guerrilla warfare. Despite years of work by organisations such as MSF in the country, many villagers now confuse aid workers and soldiers, Mr Gluck claimed. "We have seen military people with weapons and in white cars providing health care. How can you expect Afghans to distinguish?"

Aid workers particularly criticise US special forces teams who sometimes operate clinics to win over local populations or distribute sweets and toys to village children."


- That's a beautiful spot on the moral high ground GWB and his minions occupy.

Good work

Job done:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=545775


Iraq is now al-Qa'ida's battleground, say MPs

"Al-Qa'ida has turned Iraq into a "battleground" with appalling consequences for the country's people, an influential Commons committee said today.

The Foreign Affairs Select Committee said the Coalition's failure to establish law and order in parts of the country has, in addition, created a "vacuum" into which criminals and militias have poured.

The MPs concluded that an insufficient number of foreign troops deployed to Iraq has contributed to the deterioration in security."


- Yeah right - Al Quaida who have no credible links with Iraq (9/11 commission) have turned Iraq into a battleground? Doh! Didn't the lying, cheating duplicitous bastards who went in there with armies and air forces do that? Or are we really supposed to be so dumb to swallow this shit?

Yeah send more troops more guns more more more! The US government started something it can't finish here and the cowardly UK government just sucked their dicks. Or is this (almost) what was supposed to happen? After all they have their never ending war now, they have a constant security threat which supports the governments' argument for our need of them and their draconian measures; and most of all the $$$$$ - the oil and poppies are (nearly) in their sweaty hands (if they can take them off their dicks long enough!).

job done:

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=545846

Mission accomplished March 2003 - Welcome to the new Middle East - land of milk and honey.   :rocket:

heh heh heh...how long can the Empire keep this up? I remember someone putting a post up not long ago about how the USA could defeat the entire world's armies combined. Doh! Anyone home? Pish, absolute pish! What a joke!

My advice to any nations out there is get a nuke - you will get left alone and most probably the Americans will build a port to ship you aid and anything you want.

Anyone without a nuke had better watch out, especially if you are tired of having your strings pulled.


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InvisibleKingOftheThing
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2939819 - 07/29/04 11:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

al-queda had to be dealt with in Afganistan, Iraq was a mistake.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: KingOftheThing]
    #2939922 - 07/29/04 12:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

al-queda had to be dealt with in Afganistan




Was invading the country neccessary to do this? No. A small Special Forces mission may have been just as effective and maybe even have caught Osama. Was invaving the country neccessary if you want to install a puppet regime who will sign up for the pipeline project you have been trying to get off the ground for the last few years?Yes. And to be on the safe side its a good idea to make sure a couple of ex-employees of the company building the pipeline are given high ranking government positions...


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2940091 - 07/29/04 12:38 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Afghanistan has gone to shit and Iraq is following it. The sooner Bush and Blair are tried and hanged for crimes against humanity the better.


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OfflineGazzBut
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Xlea321]
    #2940113 - 07/29/04 12:42 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I wouldnt hang them...we'd be just as bad as them then...How about we force them to go and live in Iraq and aid with the rebuilding for the rest of their lives?!!


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: GazzBut]
    #2940126 - 07/29/04 12:45 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

hmm...good point Gazz  :grin:


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Xlea321]
    #2943535 - 07/30/04 06:26 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Well at least Bush has written off Iraq's $100bn debt to the USA. How generous.

Wait a minute - He runs Iraq now, so he has written off his debt to himself, no? Effectively it is impossible to owe yourself money - so the writing off is a phallicy, but a good bit of PR.

No pro-war people seem to ever want to discuss anything with me anymore - got no argument? I guess we are correct then and you are trying to deal with that.

C'mon, bring it on - I dare ya  :sun:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2943559 - 07/30/04 06:53 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

We have given up hope of ever educating you


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: zappaisgod]
    #2943624 - 07/30/04 07:45 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

That's the best u can manage? A quip?

ah well


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OfflineMystiq_Shaman
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2943635 - 07/30/04 07:50 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

england and america can thank them self for the heroin, it started long before this war and all this stuff, it started when they systemticly stopped a houndred of years old hashish tradition in afghanistan in the 70s and they started to grow opium instead down there. I bet the farmers down there loves to make heroin to the western world.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Mystiq_Shaman]
    #2943661 - 07/30/04 08:03 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Heroin is worth so much more gram for gram then hashish, plus people have to have it once they start - If I were a capitalist without a conscience I would much rather the farmers I influence grow poppies in preference to mary jane.


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OfflineMystiq_Shaman
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2943671 - 07/30/04 08:10 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

yes of course, that is what im saying. i bet they love making heroin to the western world. But they was not capitalists down there when america with allies went down there and burned down cannabis crops. The change to opium poppies came pretty quik down there after that. But if the war on drugs never cared about the cannabis back then im not so sure if opium production would have taken place in afghanistan in the scale it is today


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Mystiq_Shaman]
    #2943713 - 07/30/04 08:31 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Very true - but a fully capitalist environment increases the efficiency of this kind of production even further.

Back then in the 70's it was still in the interests of Western governments, and let's not forget the even earlier Air America scandal, as well as the attempted narcotisation of the US black urban population in response to the Black Panther movement.

Nowadays it is just better then ever and the Western control and $cut is much larger. They wanted in back then, and they want more in now - they want it all.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: GazzBut]
    #2943923 - 07/30/04 10:52 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

GazzBut said:
Quote:

al-queda had to be dealt with in Afganistan




Was invading the country neccessary to do this? No. A small Special Forces mission may have been just as effective and maybe even have caught Osama. Was invaving the country neccessary if you want to install a puppet regime who will sign up for the pipeline project you have been trying to get off the ground for the last few years?Yes. And to be on the safe side its a good idea to make sure a couple of ex-employees of the company building the pipeline are given high ranking government positions...




Bill Maher made a good point. The reason we had to invade the entire country of Afganistan is the same reason why you hold parents accountable when a child commits a nasty crime. The whole country was harboring Al Quaeda. Our problem was giving up on that place and going to Iraq. Idiocy.







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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Learyfan]
    #2943936 - 07/30/04 10:56 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Shit the Brit's had better get in there and bomb Ireland then since they are the 'parents' of the 'naughty children' who call themselves the IRA.

That is definitely the way to deal with these things.


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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Learyfan]
    #2943961 - 07/30/04 11:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah - actually Irish Republican Army even has 'Irish' in the name! They must be dedicated little naughty kids soley from Ireland.

C'mon Brits - Get in there and bomb Ireland!!! For God's sake we must punish the parents!

I don't see 'Afganistan' in Al-Quaeda's name (trans = the base). Al-Quaeda is an international terrorist organisation run by a Saudi.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/alqaeda.html

Is your analogy really fitting to the subject? Can nations be blamed for the actions of grown men and women with their own minds and agendas?


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2944108 - 07/30/04 11:59 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I can't decide if you're right or wrong about the IRA as I don't know much about it, but it's something to think about.

But when it comes to Al Quaeda, they were whole heartedly supported by the Taliban, right?






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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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InvisibleCJay
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: Learyfan]
    #2944302 - 07/30/04 01:05 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Fair enough - good call

The Taliban are scum, and sheltered bin Laden, but was this the way to overcome it?

Has Osama been caught? Has Al-Qaeda been destroyed? Have the Taliban gone away, or do they have new name(s) and fresh innovative Afgani warlords?

Wouldn't (as Gazz suggested) a special ops mission that drew little attention to itself during operation, but which came back with bin Laden's head, have made a much bigger and more precise impact?

"Irish America fulfilled certain functions. They supplied guns, weapons, war material and financial and moral support. It was obvious to me personally that if we were going to prosecute a war, we would have to have the right weaponry with which to do it." McGeough (IRA weapons aquisitioner)

- Should the UK bomb Irish Americans for wholeheartedly supporting terrorism? Or rather, should they have done so at the time when the US government refused to acknowledge this fact? Of course the UK did not launch an offensive, and thankfully eventually under Reagan the US government did an about face and publically acknowledged this fact of US support for the IRA. And the US began to aid the Brits by investigating the US arm of the IRA and it's support network. Thank God the Brits had kept a kool head and not launched into an offensive with the USA whilst for a long time it refused to deal with the problem of terrorists on it's own soil....(well the UK couldn't have or else they would have been squashed. And maybe it was this fear and need of the USA rather than good sense that actually stopped GWBush style rhetoric spouting from the lips of British politicians and so forth. If America had been a little poor country would the Brits have waded in guns blazing, no years of patience for that terrorist supporting nation's government to do something?)

Like you say plenty to think about. I'm not sure exactly the best way to have removed the Taliban (and ensure they don't re-arise in a different guise). But I am sure a more level headed cool approach would have had a far greater, more peaceful reach and a lot more support.

Cheers for testing my mad mind and crazy theories out a bit  :sun:


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2944525 - 07/30/04 02:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Hmm.....I don't know what should have been done there.  :confused:





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Mp3 of the month: Johnny Price- Marijuana, The Devil Flower



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: A beacon of hope thanks to the USA & UK [Re: CJay]
    #2945677 - 07/30/04 06:33 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think the Brits already occupy Ireland


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