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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: qman]
    #24510207 -

qman said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
we have tens of millions on Medicaid which is not fundable with tax revenue, and Medicare which is also not fundable with tax revenue.


Typo?  How are Midicaid/Medicare funded then???


Debt.


And who's on the hook for America's debt?  The taxpayer.

qman said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
You do realize cities, states and the Federal governments are insolvent and one of the main reasons is health care expenses?


No, I don't realize that.  I only realize that some are running a deficit so they can give the rich a big tax break.


That might be true, that doesn't change the fact that a single payer system would need more tax revenue that is currently being collected. :shrug:


That would be paid for by a 2.2% flat income tax increase if we go with Bernie's plan, which saves 95% of the population money over private insurance.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: qman]
    #24510216 -

qman said:
"various instances of public debt are irrelevant"

Not at all, the vast majority of those nations with single payer are also insolvent.

"You raise taxes to pay for it"

They did, still insolvent.


I don't think you know what insolvent means.  It doesn't mean the countries are in debt.  Most countries are NOT insolvent.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #24510221 -

LOL, depends on the bill.

dude, you're talking out of your ass now.

talking in generalizations because you know not the answers, just "good ideas"

you need to have the answers to have a good idea. just fyi in case you didnt think my quotation marks were sarcasm.


(sorry i keep editing, there is just to many easy targets in this idea of your healthcare plan)

and if it depends on the bill they write, how do you already know how much money it would save americans vs cost them? LOL  TALKING OUT YOUR ASS!


--------------------
People in my Fan Club: Masked (President), Ballsalsa (VP), The Ecstatic*don't waste your time "debating" with him, he uses 3rd grader tactics (Director of Bullshit), Koods (Fake News Anchorman), Falcon - Devout Communist

*Word your posts carefully if they contain right wing values. The moderators here like to keep it left leaning, they will use every excuse to ban you but not the others. You've been warned.

Edited by keyser_soze (07/26/17 08:51 PM)

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24510248 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
"various instances of public debt are irrelevant"

Not at all, the vast majority of those nations with single payer are also insolvent.

"You raise taxes to pay for it"

They did, still insolvent.


I don't think you know what insolvent means.  It doesn't mean the countries are in debt.  Most countries are NOT insolvent.


i think you should look up the definition of insolvent


--------------------
People in my Fan Club: Masked (President), Ballsalsa (VP), The Ecstatic*don't waste your time "debating" with him, he uses 3rd grader tactics (Director of Bullshit), Koods (Fake News Anchorman), Falcon - Devout Communist

*Word your posts carefully if they contain right wing values. The moderators here like to keep it left leaning, they will use every excuse to ban you but not the others. You've been warned.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: keyser_soze] * 1
    #24510263 -

He's right.  It doesn't mean one has debt.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Enlil]
    #24510318 -

Enlil said:
He's right.  It doesn't mean one has debt.



if you cant pay your debt, wouldn't you still have said debt because you couldn't pay it off?


i owe you 30$....

i have 30$ worth of black girl weave and not 30$ in cash and you dont accept black girl weave as payment....


am i not still in debt to you?

after all that, you still have to be in debt to be able to be insolvent.


--------------------
People in my Fan Club: Masked (President), Ballsalsa (VP), The Ecstatic*don't waste your time "debating" with him, he uses 3rd grader tactics (Director of Bullshit), Koods (Fake News Anchorman), Falcon - Devout Communist

*Word your posts carefully if they contain right wing values. The moderators here like to keep it left leaning, they will use every excuse to ban you but not the others. You've been warned.

Edited by keyser_soze (07/26/17 09:40 PM)

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: keyser_soze]
    #24510348 -

Having debt doesn't mean you can't pay it off.  If I owe $200,000 on my home, but only earn $70,000/year, that doesn't mean I'm insolvent.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: keyser_soze] * 2
    #24510358 -

keyser_soze said:
ok, so you are for single payer.

how much extra should the tax rate be per person, since you think it will work?

and none of this "tax the rich only", that is just childish.



Are you incapable of reading? The second post on the page you posted that on was:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
The Ecstatic said:
Single payer costs less than our current system.


Bernie's proposal was to make everyone pay a flat 2% tax to cover single payer.  I think that worked out to be cheaper for 95% of the country, but more expensive for the top 5%.


then you went on some more with:

keyser_soze said:
ok, how much would you raise taxes?

better yet, what would be the tax rate solely be to pay for single payer healthcare?

what about the parasites with no jobs who pay no tax?

and nice weird comparison to how you consider socialized health insurance but not socialized medicine. it most definitely is socialized medicine.


to which Ecstatic responded quite reasonably with:

The Ecstatic said:
It depends on the bill.


At which point you went completely off the rails with:


keyser_soze said:
wait, you're saying the taxes would fluctuate based on the hospital bill?

so, they add up all your medical expenses then give you the tax rate at the end of the year?

are you really thinking like that? LOL

and what about the parasites with no jobs?


You clearly have no clue what's even being talked about at this point.
Do yourself a favor, read more and post less.  Quality is more important than quantity.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24510391 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
"various instances of public debt are irrelevant"

Not at all, the vast majority of those nations with single payer are also insolvent.

"You raise taxes to pay for it"

They did, still insolvent.


I don't think you know what insolvent means.  It doesn't mean the countries are in debt.  Most countries are NOT insolvent.


"know what insolvent means"

'unable to pay off debts owned'  Can the US, Japan, UK, France, Italy pay off their government debt?  NO!

"Most countries are NOT insolvent"

Really, I guess you forget that central banks bought up $15 trillion of debt the last 10 years, was it just for fun?  :lol:

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24510398 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Having debt doesn't mean you can't pay it off.  If I owe $200,000 on my home, but only earn $70,000/year, that doesn't mean I'm insolvent.


That's true, but if you have $20 trillion of debt and make only $3.5 trillion per year, and you still borrow almost $1 trillion per year to get by, you're broke.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: ballsalsa]
    #24510399 -

cool of you to over look my other post after he clarified which bill.

and notice, in your quotes, it said bernie's proposal.  not forum members proposal.

plus he still hasn't addressed the elephant in the room. NON TAX PAYING PARASITES


--------------------
People in my Fan Club: Masked (President), Ballsalsa (VP), The Ecstatic*don't waste your time "debating" with him, he uses 3rd grader tactics (Director of Bullshit), Koods (Fake News Anchorman), Falcon - Devout Communist

*Word your posts carefully if they contain right wing values. The moderators here like to keep it left leaning, they will use every excuse to ban you but not the others. You've been warned.

Edited by keyser_soze (07/26/17 10:17 PM)

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: keyser_soze]
    #24510434 -

Who doesn't pay taxes in the U.S.?


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: qman]
    #24510773 -

qman said:
Can the US, Japan, UK, France, Italy pay off their government debt?  NO!


Source?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Enlil]
    #24511081 -

Enlil said:
Who doesn't pay taxes in the U.S.?


ok, which tax pool would the 'premiums' come from?

are we not talking about a health care tax?? or are you trying to connive up ways to hide it in other taxes, like hiking up sales taxes, gas taxes, and every other tax just so the american people dont see the real cost?? not saying you are but i wouldnt put it past liberals and democrats.

if it's going to be income based (which most people i see talking about it want it that way, because they hate people who have more money than themselves), how much more % on top of what is already there?.

and you will notice it is like 2-3% of the population that is making rates rise. there has been a study done.


--------------------
People in my Fan Club: Masked (President), Ballsalsa (VP), The Ecstatic*don't waste your time "debating" with him, he uses 3rd grader tactics (Director of Bullshit), Koods (Fake News Anchorman), Falcon - Devout Communist

*Word your posts carefully if they contain right wing values. The moderators here like to keep it left leaning, they will use every excuse to ban you but not the others. You've been warned.

Edited by keyser_soze (07/27/17 07:23 AM)

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24511215 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
qman said:
Can the US, Japan, UK, France, Italy pay off their government debt?  NO!


Source?


Basic math and current day reality.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: qman] * 1
    #24511295 -

Show your calculations, please.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: keyser_soze] * 2
    #24511297 -

keyser_soze said:
if it's going to be income based (which most people i see talking about it want it that way, because they hate people who have more money than themselves), how much more % on top of what is already there?.


:wonka:
Tell me more about how folks want single payer because they hate anyone with more money than themselves.  It's always entertaining to me when someone projects their twisted values on the rest of the world.

Quote:
and you will notice it is like 2-3% of the population that is making rates rise. there has been a study done.


Has there been a study done?  A whole study?  Let's see it.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Enlil]
    #24511352 -

Enlil said:
Show your calculations, please.


https://www.thestreet.com/video/14159167/this-is-the-third-longest-economic-expansion-since-wwii.html

And the result?  http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/sep/12/donald-trump/trump-solely-blames-obama-doubling-debt/

What happens when the expansion come to an end and the inevitable recession hits the economy?  More debt.

If we couldn't deal with the debt with the third longest economic expansion, it can't happen.

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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: qman]
    #24511404 -

So, in other words, you are just basing your opinion on speculation.  Fair enough.


--------------------
Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: Did the Democrats finally see the light? [Re: Enlil]
    #24511516 -

Enlil said:
So, in other words, you are just basing your opinion on speculation.  Fair enough.


I don't consider the math and current trend speculation. If the math and trend changes, I'll reevaluate the situation, but I don't see that happening.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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