Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Supporting candidates who want to help the middle class more than the wealthy.

---

How did that workout for Obama and Trump voters?

qman said:

You stated that the governments in the EU weren't moving to the far-right, I showed you were wrong.

---

i didnt say that, i meant 'no' re the idea there is some radical left that's the cause of it

...just misunderstanding

qman said:

You stated that the governments in the EU weren't moving to the far-right, I showed you were wrong.

---

MushiesAreVegan said:

qman said:

You stated that the governments in the EU weren't moving to the far-right, I showed you were wrong.

---

lol you make no sense whatsoever. Germany has been moving to the right continously in the last few years.

If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.

im glad that fashists are completely unable to do meaningful community organizing like bottom up moovements can. Maybe it is because it isn't that anti-establishment and bottom up to be pro-army, pro border, pro war, pro military industrial complex, pro private property, and pro literally suporting the right wing of the ruling class

---

MushiesAreVegan said:

If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.

---

qman said:

"Germany has been moving to the right"

Exactly, that was my original point.

---

viktor said:

MushiesAreVegan said:

If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.

---

So we have shivas.wisdom telling us gleefully that the far-right is "fractured" and becoming weak, whereas this guy is telling us that Germany is becoming more right-wing.

Can't you Marxists keep your story straight?

---

Bubbles85 said:

shivas.wisdom said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

Can I ask everyone in this thread: what constructive things did you do in 2017 / or plan to do in 2018 / to help realize your vision of an ideal world?

---

Supporting candidates who want to help the middle class more than the wealthy.

---

I would have said the same, but the system across the West is rigged with two party systems. How can we continually vote for the same parties year after year, decade after decade and ever expect any thing to change?

---

shivas.wisdom said:

I agree with you there - I'm a huge proponent of direct action.

I spent last year helping various communities become self-sufficient - some time was spent in a rural area helping to reestablish the local agricultural infrastructure - more time has been spent helping to establish a DIY music venue in an urban city.

My preferred actions don't focus on national/international campaigns nor do they move through centralized representation - instead, I focus on cultivating stronger local communities: food security, mental healthcare, and local art scenes were my focus of 2017 and this will continue on in 2018.

---

MushiesAreVegan said:

In europe Governments are drifting to the right, and in parts of the population right wing narratives are more and more widely accepted. This started (to get worse) with the economic crisis, when People where disenchanted with center- right wing neoliberal politics and austerity and started a move to the right, aided by media and politicians scapegoating refugees. Wich is of course bullshit, as if refugees are to blame for the worsening of people under government imposed austerity and structural ajustment ^^. They do, however, make an easy target and are a good disrtaction from who is really to blame for the increasing inequality and the worsening conditions of the mass of people. Those leaches that just keep getting richer and richer and the group of gangsters called The State

The institutionalized left is failing, as it lost its theeth by supporting the status-quo and moving to the right.

The extraparliamentary left however is strong, despite the harshening of repression. In germany, politicians thought they had the situation under controll when they held G20 in Hamburg. They didnt

---

MushiesAreVegan said:

Yes, refugees are expensive, but not as expensive as tax refugees

Ok germany spent like 17 Billion euros for the refugee crisis in 2016, they expect to have spent like 90 Billion untill 2020

since 2008, at least 236 Billion euros have been spent on saving the banks, accoding to deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten

German assets valueing 16% of the German GDP are in offshore accounts Source: Neues Deuschland

That ammounts to approximately half a trillion Euros, assuming that the German GDP is about 3.14 Trillion euros

The EU looses corporate taxes of (probably much) more than 100 Bn annualy just to tax optimisation, not criminal tax doging. So the ammount is probably a lot higher than that

Im just saying that there is more than enough money around to stop the crisis that germany and the eu themselves created with natos help. They made hundreds of billions selling arms so saudi arabia, iraq, turkey etc...

---

shivas.wisdom said:

qman said:

"radical left"

Yes, it does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism

---

From the wiki-article:

"Fascism has historically been considered a far-right ideology, but crossovers may be expected according to the horseshoe theory, where the touching point between the far-left and the far-right may be the use of power and/or political terrorism. Categorizations such as left-wing fascism provide shorthand labels, but they lack any universally understood or agreed meaning and in common parlance may be used as a pejorative for any left-wing political position, or where unusual (or contradictory) hybrid political positions are perceived."


Even if you subscribe to the oversimplification that is horseshoe theory, you would be more accurate to describe the convergence as 'totalitarianism' or 'authoritarianism' rather than 'fascism'. As your own link states, 'left-wing fascism' is empty of any intrinsic meaning and is more commonly used to disparage any left-wing political position.

---

Like when the left tries to censor free speech, no fascism here.

www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/01/04/germany-can-now-fine-social-media-sites-60-million-for-allowing-hate-speech.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-hatecrime/german-opposition-calls-for-abolition-of-online-hate-speech-law-idUSKBN1EW0Q9

shivas.wisdom said:

Is fascism the only ideology that utilizes censorship? Why do you feel 'fascism' is a more appropriate term than either 'authoritarianism' or 'totalitarianism'?

Seems to me you're just calling something fascism because you disagree with it.

---

No, I'm calling it fascism because it's the censorship of certain words and concepts by the enforcement of the state.

"because you disagree with it"

That fact that I also disagree with law doesn't change the fact that it's censorship mandated by leftists.