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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24896295 -

I agree with you there - I'm a huge proponent of direct action.

I spent last year helping various communities become self-sufficient - some time was spent in a rural area helping to reestablish the local agricultural infrastructure - more time has been spent helping to establish a DIY music venue in an urban city.

My preferred actions don't focus on national/international campaigns nor do they move through centralized representation - instead, I focus on cultivating stronger local communities: food security, mental healthcare, and local art scenes were my focus of 2017 and this will continue on in 2018.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #24896317 -

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Supporting candidates who want to help the middle class more than the wealthy.



How did that workout for Obama and Trump voters? :cookiemonster:

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman]
    #24896444 -

qman said:
You stated that the governments in the EU weren't moving to the far-right, I showed you were wrong.




i didnt say that, i meant 'no' re the idea there is some radical left that's the cause of it

...just misunderstanding :ohwell:


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dripping with fantasy

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: quinn] * 1
    #24896621 -

qman said:
You stated that the governments in the EU weren't moving to the far-right, I showed you were wrong.




lol you make no sense whatsoever. Germany has been moving to the right continously in the last few years.

If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.

im glad that fashists are completely unable to do meaningful community organizing like bottom up moovements can. Maybe it is because it isn't that anti-establishment and bottom up to be pro-army, pro border, pro war, pro military industrial complex, pro private property, and pro literally suporting the right wing of the ruling class

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: MushiesAreVegan]
    #24896653 -

MushiesAreVegan said:
qman said:
You stated that the governments in the EU weren't moving to the far-right, I showed you were wrong.




lol you make no sense whatsoever. Germany has been moving to the right continously in the last few years.

If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.

im glad that fashists are completely unable to do meaningful community organizing like bottom up moovements can. Maybe it is because it isn't that anti-establishment and bottom up to be pro-army, pro border, pro war, pro military industrial complex, pro private property, and pro literally suporting the right wing of the ruling class



"Germany has been moving to the right"

Exactly, that was my original point.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: MushiesAreVegan]
    #24896826 -

MushiesAreVegan said:
If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.



So we have shivas.wisdom telling us gleefully that the far-right is "fractured" and becoming weak, whereas this guy is telling us that Germany is becoming more right-wing.

Can't you Marxists keep your story straight?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 1
    #24896844 -

qman said:
"Germany has been moving to the right"

Exactly, that was my original point.



Sure, we have a nearly 600-page thread about this. Europe is moving to the right because the Marxists overplayed their hand (as they always do) and now the people are enraged at what's being done to them.

The thing is, I was in Germany in 2002, when MushiesAreVegan was still in nappies, and I could see this coming. It was obvious even then that multikulti was a disaster, but the left's total refusal to admit wrongdoing has seen the problem fester to the point where civil war is inevitable.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: viktor]
    #24896868 -

viktor said:
MushiesAreVegan said:
If you where actualy involved in germanys far left you'd know this. Germany drifted to the right and got way more authoritarian.



So we have shivas.wisdom telling us gleefully that the far-right is "fractured" and becoming weak, whereas this guy is telling us that Germany is becoming more right-wing.

Can't you Marxists keep your story straight?



My OP was specific to the situation on Turtle Island (North America) - things are different in Europe.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Bubbles85]
    #24897482 -

Bubbles85 said:
shivas.wisdom said:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Can I ask everyone in this thread: what constructive things did you do in 2017 / or plan to do in 2018 / to help realize your vision of an ideal world?



Supporting candidates who want to help the middle class more than the wealthy.



I would have said the same, but the system across the West is rigged with two party systems. How can we continually vote for the same parties year after year, decade after decade and ever expect any thing to change?



Bernie ran as a Democrat even though he wasn't (and still isn't) one.  He came pretty damn close to winning.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #24897757 -

In europe Governments are drifting to the right, and in parts of the population right wing narratives are more and more widely accepted. This started (to get worse) with the economic crisis, when People where disenchanted with center- right wing neoliberal politics and austerity and started a move to the right, aided by media and politicians scapegoating refugees. Wich is of course bullshit, as if refugees are to blame for the worsening of people under government imposed austerity and structural ajustment ^^. They do, however, make an easy target and are a good disrtaction from who is really to blame for the increasing inequality and the worsening conditions of the mass of people. Those leaches that just keep getting richer and richer and the group of gangsters called The State

The institutionalized left is failing, as it lost its theeth by supporting the status-quo and moving to the right.

The extraparliamentary left however is strong, despite the harshening of repression. In germany, politicians thought they had the situation under controll when they held G20 in Hamburg. They didnt :grin:

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: MushiesAreVegan] * 1
    #24897759 -

Refugees are to blame though. If they ween't there, there would be plenty more money to go around to take care of your own people.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: viktor] * 1
    #24897789 -

Yes, refugees are expensive, but not as expensive as tax refugees

Ok germany spent like 17 Billion euros for the refugee crisis in 2016, they expect to have spent like 90 Billion untill 2020

since 2008, at least 236 Billion euros have been spent on saving the banks, accoding to deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten

German assets valueing 16% of the German GDP are in offshore accounts Source: Neues Deuschland

That ammounts to approximately half a trillion Euros, assuming that the German GDP is about 3.14 Trillion euros

The EU looses corporate taxes of (probably much) more than 100 Bn annualy just to tax optimisation, not criminal tax doging. So the ammount is probably a lot higher than that

Im just saying that there is more than enough money around to stop the crisis that germany and the eu themselves created with natos help. They made hundreds of billions selling arms so saudi arabia, iraq, turkey etc...

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: MushiesAreVegan]
    #24897806 -

So? That doesn't mean that we need more Muslims.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #24897820 -

shivas.wisdom said:
I agree with you there - I'm a huge proponent of direct action.

I spent last year helping various communities become self-sufficient - some time was spent in a rural area helping to reestablish the local agricultural infrastructure - more time has been spent helping to establish a DIY music venue in an urban city.

My preferred actions don't focus on national/international campaigns nor do they move through centralized representation - instead, I focus on cultivating stronger local communities: food security, mental healthcare, and local art scenes were my focus of 2017 and this will continue on in 2018.



Definitely. It was nt always so for me, but time after time I see our votes are meaningless. We are promised change at every election but nothing materializes. The democratic will of the people continues to be ignored. Often literally. It's time to fight back.

Props on your community work.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: MushiesAreVegan]
    #24898101 -

MushiesAreVegan said:
In europe Governments are drifting to the right, and in parts of the population right wing narratives are more and more widely accepted. This started (to get worse) with the economic crisis, when People where disenchanted with center- right wing neoliberal politics and austerity and started a move to the right, aided by media and politicians scapegoating refugees. Wich is of course bullshit, as if refugees are to blame for the worsening of people under government imposed austerity and structural ajustment ^^. They do, however, make an easy target and are a good disrtaction from who is really to blame for the increasing inequality and the worsening conditions of the mass of people. Those leaches that just keep getting richer and richer and the group of gangsters called The State

The institutionalized left is failing, as it lost its theeth by supporting the status-quo and moving to the right.

The extraparliamentary left however is strong, despite the harshening of repression. In germany, politicians thought they had the situation under controll when they held G20 in Hamburg. They didnt :grin:



"This started with the economic crisis"

No, it started with the migrant crisis.

"scapegoating refugees"

Yet Merkel still defends the migrants that keep coming into the EU. The fact of the matter is that economic migrants have destroyed many EU communities with crime and a culture that is compatible with Western values.

It has also been an economic disaster since day one, most of these migrants have no money, skills, education or language ability. Who's going to support these people for the next 20 years?  Yes, the native populations.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: MushiesAreVegan]
    #24898107 -

MushiesAreVegan said:
Yes, refugees are expensive, but not as expensive as tax refugees

Ok germany spent like 17 Billion euros for the refugee crisis in 2016, they expect to have spent like 90 Billion untill 2020

since 2008, at least 236 Billion euros have been spent on saving the banks, accoding to deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten

German assets valueing 16% of the German GDP are in offshore accounts Source: Neues Deuschland

That ammounts to approximately half a trillion Euros, assuming that the German GDP is about 3.14 Trillion euros

The EU looses corporate taxes of (probably much) more than 100 Bn annualy just to tax optimisation, not criminal tax doging. So the ammount is probably a lot higher than that

Im just saying that there is more than enough money around to stop the crisis that germany and the eu themselves created with natos help. They made hundreds of billions selling arms so saudi arabia, iraq, turkey etc...



If you can't see the distinction between using money to bailout financial institutions and supporting economic migrants, I don't know what to tell you. 

"is more than enough money to stop the crisis"

You mean supporting millions of economic migrants in the EU at the expense of EU citizens?  I'm sorry to break the news, but the vast majority of EU governments are insolvent, just wait until that reality hits the EU as there won't be a liberal to be found.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24898115 -

shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
"radical left"

Yes, it does exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_fascism



From the wiki-article:

"Fascism has historically been considered a far-right ideology, but crossovers may be expected according to the horseshoe theory, where the touching point between the far-left and the far-right may be the use of power and/or political terrorism. Categorizations such as left-wing fascism provide shorthand labels, but they lack any universally understood or agreed meaning and in common parlance may be used as a pejorative for any left-wing political position, or where unusual (or contradictory) hybrid political positions are perceived."


Even if you subscribe to the oversimplification that is horseshoe theory, you would be more accurate to describe the convergence as 'totalitarianism' or 'authoritarianism' rather than 'fascism'. As your own link states, 'left-wing fascism' is empty of any intrinsic meaning and is more commonly used to disparage any left-wing political position.



Like when the left tries to censor free speech, no fascism here. :facepalm:

www.foxnews.com/tech/2018/01/04/germany-can-now-fine-social-media-sites-60-million-for-allowing-hate-speech.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-hatecrime/german-opposition-calls-for-abolition-of-online-hate-speech-law-idUSKBN1EW0Q9

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: qman] * 3
    #24898128 -

Is fascism the only ideology that utilizes censorship? Why do you feel 'fascism' is a more appropriate term than either 'authoritarianism' or 'totalitarianism'?

Seems to me you're just calling something fascism because you disagree with it.


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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #24898215 -

I think these terms are open to a great degree of interpretation. Ultimately it comes down how the word is defined. If a "fascist" is some one who has no tolerance for opposing views and is authoritarian in nature, I could definitely see the use of the term fitting well with groups on the far-left, as well of course as the far-right.

Today in political discourse, the term is simply used as a slur, or for condemnation.

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Re: 2017 in the Bay and Beyond: A Play-by-Play Analysis of Antifascist Action in the USA [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #24898233 -

shivas.wisdom said:
Is fascism the only ideology that utilizes censorship? Why do you feel 'fascism' is a more appropriate term than either 'authoritarianism' or 'totalitarianism'?

Seems to me you're just calling something fascism because you disagree with it.



No, I'm calling it fascism because it's the censorship of certain words and concepts by the enforcement of the state.

"because you disagree with it"

That fact that I also disagree with law doesn't change the fact that it's censorship mandated by leftists. :shrug:

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